Clever logo… (well I thought so anyway)

You know, I was trying to figure out where I’d seen the rounded one before.. then I realised it’s the font used in those old skool fridge-magnet alphabets we had as kids. Now if that’s not an evocative font I dunno what is.

yep. They actually give away “free” fridge magnets with the kids packs.

jackthedog – Member

Jeremy – contributing repeatedly and tenaciously to a 30 odd page thread, then suddenly having the temerity to suggest it’s gone on too long having arbitrarily got bored of it yourself suggests you have little concept that other people might have things to say beyond what you consider to be the final word.

Not at all. Carry on by all means. Merely that is gone beyond ridiculous

I think the few posts over the garmin logo blue triangle has summed it up completely.

MF uses this as an example of a good logo with some good symbology. I say that the blue triangle is meaningless – he says its a north arrow and posts loads of pictures of north arrows none of which are a blue triangle on top of a N.

Graham has to admit that he did not see this as a north arrow.

I make the point that its only a north arrow if you know garmin is a navigation tool – so it only has meaning in context.

Indeed more than that – you only know its a north arrow if you know its a garmin and you are looking for significance.
So this very clever bit of graphics / logo work actually has been shown to add nothing to the basic word. The only people who know what it is are those who already know what a garmin is and are the sort of people who look for these things.

ie all that fancy work marketting branding stuff has been completely wasted – and this is one used as an example of a good piece.

TJ, how the flying f*ckeroo am I supposed to find peer reviewed scientific papers on advertising withotu paying to sign up for a load of journals?

Why do you feel you have to? To jump through soemone else’s hoops? Anyway, a start might be to Google “Harvard Business School advertising” and see who at HBS has worked on that area, and then Google their publications. I haven’t bothered to do that – it’s just a suggested strategy. Then you can waste your life reading why someone thinks they know better

Grow the fk up you ignorant sod. Why d’you have to philibuster every single thread by dragging smaller and smaller tiny points through the bloody mud to try and find something on which you can score?

You have no idea of the exact sales figures before and after campaigns, and neither do I. This thread, like most, can only be a discussion of points of view. There is no victor. All I want is for you to accept the merit of my arguments even if you disagree with them. I’ve done it to yours.

This is why some of us decline to respond to his posts – internet discussion requires intellectual honesty and a willingness to see the deficiencies in your own argument. TJ does not meet the minimum criteria.

With its dynamic styling, wealth of intuitive technologies and precision-engineered performance […] the new Focus delivers a truly addictive driving experience.When you start the new Focus, you start so much more than a car.”

That talks directly to the heart, not the head.

both quotes a classic example of meaningless waffle that only talkks to the converted

So this very clever bit of graphics / logo work actually has been shown to add nothing to the basic word TO ME.

TFTY

both quotes a classic example of meaningless waffle that only talkks to the converted

Yep, I’d call that reinforcement.

You know bugger all about this stuff, it’s time you shut up and started learning. Your world view is simply your own, you can’t tell us we’re wrong because our view is different.

Jack, on Kelloggs, didn’t they decide a while ago that they didn’t need to advertise Cornflakes, because it was so widely known and the product was good enough to sell on it’s own?

And then found sales plummeting because that was absolutely, 100% wrong?

DrJ – yuo are a fine one to talk – you have consistently distorted anything I post, refused to listen and been consistently offensive. You refuse to answer, you distort and traduce You accuse me of lying when its your inability to comprehend that there are other viewpoints that is at fault.

Molgrips

You and others keep claiming there is independent proof this works.

If you claim something then you should be able to defend it

You should be able to get abstracts for free from the standard journals. Or give me the titles and I’ll get them using my Athens password

If you claim something then you should be able to defend it

THIS IS NOT A **** COURT OF LAW!

Most normal people say ‘oh yeah I read this and that’ and the other person goes ‘oh yeah that’s interesting’ or ‘well I’m sceptical’.

Your incessant demands for peer reviewed papers are just puerile and frigging annoying.

ALL I want is for you to say ‘Well that seems far-fetched to me, but I don’t know for sure’. That’s all – you can make all this go away…

Molgrips – Graham had the intellectual honesty to accept that he did not see it.
So did others. its not just me.

do you see a blue triangle on top of a letter N as a north arrow? would you have known that unless you knew garmin was to do with navigation?

MF uses this as an example of a good logo with some good symbology.

No I didn’t – I just said that I thought it was clever and obvious once spotted.

I thought it was actually quite clever and glaringly obvious once spotted…

This is copied and pasted from post one on page one.

ONCE SPOTTED.

O
N
C
E

S
P
O
T
T
E
D

Graham has to admit that he did not see this as a north arrow.

I did yes. Contrary to your very well-held belief, it is quite possible for someone to concede a point in a debate without that destroying their entire argument.

You really should try it some time.

It really doesn’t matter whether I saw it straight away or had it pointed out. That kind of thing is just a little design nod. A little “ah-ha” moment like the FedEx “arrow” or the Amazon “A-to-Z/smile”.

Now that I’ve had it pointed out (or if I’d noticed it on my own) I have one more little hook about that brand stuck in my mind.

DrJ – yuo are a fine one to talk – you have consistently distorted anything I post, refused to listen and been consistently offensive. You refuse to answer, you distort and traduce You accuse me of lying when its your inability to comprehend that there are other viewpoints that is at fault.

I think someone’s bottom lip is starting to quiver. 😉

Intellectual honesty.

You say “Its been proven to work”. Its reasonable to expect someone to ask for the proof.

Ok, let’s have a nice talk about the Garmin logo.

I did not notice it as a north arrow. However now it’s been pointed out to me I think it’s cool.

That is a cool thought stuck in my brain next to all the other cool thoughts about Garmin, and the more cool thoughts I have about them the more likely I am to recommend them to someone else. When I next buy a GPS I will probably get Garmin because of all the cool thoughts about them in my brain.

That’s how it works for people typically.

Its reasonable to expect someone to ask for the proof

FFS. Why are you asking me? Am I an ad exec? No. All I am doing is reporting a general impression from having read about it previously AND YOU SHOULD KNOW THIS TO BECAUSE YOU KNOW I DO NOT WORK IN THE BUSINESS.

TJ: can we have some peer-reviewed papers that say this stuff doesn’t work then please?

🙄

You guys need a little intellectual honesty. The example of the blue triangle shows how little all this fancy graphics stuff matters. Open your eyes. Its a classic example.

You guys need a little intellectual honesty. The example of the blue triangle shows how little all this fancy graphics stuff matters. Open your eyes. Its a classic example

I explained in detail to you what the blue triangle meant to me. Can I be any more honest than that?

You guys need a little intellectual honesty.

Wow. That’s up there with accusing me of a lack of understanding.

And you didn’t even have the decency to respond after I was decent enough to overlook your insults.

GrahamS – Member

TJ: can we have some peer-reviewed papers that say this stuff doesn’t work then please?

I haven’t claimed its been proven not to work. I have claimed its not as effective or important as you believe in my opinion.

crikey was right –

Ned – sorry – did I miss something- I will apologise for that.

I was foolish to get sucked back into this. I will stop.

You accuse me of lying when its your inability to comprehend that there are other viewpoints that is at fault

How can you have the gall to accuse us of not seeing other viewpoints when this entire argument is about YOU not seeing anyone else’s viewpoints?

I have claimed its not as effective or important as you believe in my opinion

Well we never gave figures, so how can you compare anything?

And that’s the first time you’ve used ‘in my opinion’ (as far as I can remember) so I guess that counts as a victory.

How can you have the gall to accuse us of not seeing other viewpoints when this entire argument is about YOU not seeing anyone else’s viewpoints?

No its not – I see your viewpoint, I understand it, I disagree with it and its basic premises.

apologies (to myself mainly) for coming back into this thread.
not sure if the following has been dealt with on recent pages but I’d like to ask TJ:

1- in relation to

in the context of people claiming the font gave meaning such as businesslike or similar that was universal and inherent.

can you show where this has actually been claimed? I know people have stated that its impossible (for mortals) to separate an item and its branding (due to mental associations etc) but that’s not claiming the same..

2- TJ, are you in complete control of your subconscious thoughts?

TJ is opening up quite a significant lead now.. he’s gonna romp home with this if you guys aren’t careful

Is this the longest thread ever?

No its not – I see your viewpoint, I understand it, I disagree with it and its basic premises.

You don’t actually seem to understand it though.

I was foolish to get sucked back into this. I will stop

You guys need a little intellectual honesty. The example of the blue triangle shows how little all this fancy graphics stuff matters. Open your eyes. Its a classic example.

Yet again, yet again. Yes, yet again.

Yet again TJ, you are confusing a logo with brand. I simply liked the subtle arrow (yes it is subtle, people don’t always see it – I have seen the logo many times and only just spotted it and that was the thrust of my original post).

So, as a brand the Garmin ‘North Pointer’ isn’t the best example of brand communication but I never said it was. I just liked the subtle execution of the *LOGO*.

Have you got that much yet?

can you show where this has actually been claimed?

page 4 and 5

2- TJ, are you in complete control of your subconscious thoughts?

I have no idea what you mean by subconcious. Not a term I believe to be useful.

got to be up there m-c. Shame Elfin’s banned, no celebration for the 1500!

I have claimed its not as effective or important as you believe in my opinion.

Ah right.

Your opinion is its not as effective or important as I believe.

I can’t argue with that. That IS definitely your opinion.

It’s a factually incorrect opinion. But it is definitely your opinion, which you have repeatedly expressed. I have no way to argue that it is not your opinion and nor would I seek to do so.

Flounce on the cards now? 😛

You know bugger all about this stuff, it’s time you shut up and started learning. Your world view is simply your own, you can’t tell us we’re wrong because our view is different.

of course not it is your job to do that to him for having a different view to you isnt it Mr kettle?

2- TJ, are you in complete control of your subconscious thoughts?

I have no idea what you mean by subconcious. Not a term I believe to be useful.

OK, have you ever had a dream? ever remember any thoughts in that dream that you wouldn’t necessarily consider happenning in real waking life?

EDIT
3 Are you Terminator?

It’s a factually incorrect opinion

in your opinion

The example of the blue triangle shows how little all this fancy graphics stuff matters. Open your eyes. Its a classic example

You can’t tell me what the blue triangle means in my own brain.

And why did you put ‘open your eyes’? You are implying that my eyes are closed, or that I am being ignorant. This is an insult, isn’t it? So why’s it there?

of course not it is your job to do that to him for having a different view to you isnt it Mr kettle?

We are claiming different things. He’s saying that branding and advertising hardly works on anyone, which is clearly bobbins, just look at the economy. I’ve been saying he’s not understanding what we’ve been trying to say. Which is true, judging by reading what he comes back with.

Actually – what I really want is for him to say ‘well I’ve learned something’.

I very rarely dream? However what is that supposed to show?

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Subconscious

The term subconscious is used in many different contexts and has no single or precise definition. This greatly limits its significance as a definition-bearing concept, and in consequence the word tends to be avoided in academic and scientific settings.

One of the issues here throughout this thread has been poorly defined terms and word that we take to mean different things.

It’s a factually incorrect opinion

in your opinion

I’m guessing that GrahamS has a better idea of what he believes than does TJ.

in consequence the word tends to be avoided in academic and scientific settings

Is this an academic or scientific setting?

He’s saying that branding and advertising hardly works on anyone, which is clearly bobbins, just look at the economy. I’ve been saying he’s not understanding what we’ve been trying to say. Which is true, judging by reading what he comes back with.

Itellectual honesty.

I have been saying its much less effective than you believe

I absolutely understand what yo have been saying, i simply do not accept it as correct.

Right – I have important stuff to do. See you later

i heard he insulted yo momma as well