Considering getting a fixed gear bike, and heard mixed reports about how bad carbon rim rimbrakes are in the wet (for purely aesthetic reasons I refuse to use black alu rims with cantilever brakes and the bike I’m considering have them), the other options are getting a plain alu wheelset, finding a used DT swiss oxic rim – albeit some people rip through its coating in months, or getting a new fork and front wheel to install a disc brake.

Let’s say you get a generic £250 38mm novatech 1.75kg Chinese carbon fixed gear wheelset and:

Ultegra R8000 BR front brake w a Tektro RL721 lever (stronger than R6800, widely regarded as the bees knees of road rimbrakes)

Campagnolo red carbon pads (some say they are the best carbon specific pads in the wet)

And you live somewhere flat so you won’t be traveling faster than 50 km/h. Good enough? Or should I ditch the chinese carbon dream and just get a plain alu wheelset instead? (bit heavier, but probably more robust and with better breaking power).

Plain alu can be sexy with very dark or light frames (with plain alu cranks)

My experience is that I get not much braking then a lot of braking with no modulation in between. So while they are definitely a bit sketchy, they’re still ridable.

I’ve got aliexpress sourced Carbon 38’s with a basalt breaking surface – They are ok in the wet but chew through brake pads like no ones business. It’s on the “good” bike so rarely get’s wet. Used day to day life would get expensive.

I also have planet X 82’s on my tt bike without basalt surface. Braking is “hopeful” to say the least. Riding through town to get out for a session is interesting sometimes.

Both bikes running SRAM rival, Road with drop levers / TT with TT levers obviously.

I have some Zuus (no longer trading) Carbon wheels, and I’ve just started using the Prime brake pads (about £8 a pair from CRC).

I’ve not done much braking in the wet, but the braking I _have_ done has been fine. I live in Cambridgeshire, so not a huge number of hills, but they’ve also been in California (hills, but no rain).

I think you’ll be fine.

It’s forecast to be rainy tomorrow, I could go out and give them a go.

(Next wheels will probably be Alu though, I suspect the only benefit of Carbon is that they look awesome).

If you are that obsessed with having black rims then learn to skid stop for quick stops and pedal resist to control speed along with anticipating and slowing down before you need to.

The front brake will only get used for emergencies so you can use a coated alu rim.

Scruff: interesting, i guess i won’t rely on them too much mainly breaking with the rear wheel, so cost might not be an issue, although i see basalt treated track wheels are rare and £100 extra, only 1500 grams though. Would be half the price to get a 2+ kg plain alu wheelset.

oldnpastit: sounds good, and this is with basalt coating or not?

Good point Kerley, GP5000s are expensive though 😉

All depends on the rim.
I had a set of Bontrager carbon rims, braking was decent.
I have a set of Reynolds Carbon rims, in the dry the braking is good. In the wet the braking is….Pull brake, nothing happens, pull and release a handful of times (to clear water from the rim), nothing happens, scream “Whoaaaaa!!! Get outtta the way!! No Brakes!!!” while pulling the brakes – and still nothing happens. They are scary and friggin useless!
On a recent ride I got caught out with 3% chance of rain said the BBC website – well I found that rain cloud and followed it for an hour, even going uphill to a junction, braking hard, I still had to unclip and use my feet to stop the bike.
I’ve tried all sorts of different pads with the Reynolds and they just don’t work properly, the Reynolds Blue were rubbish. Not used the campagnolo pads, but the best I’ve found are the cheap blue ones from Wiggle.
I have Ultegra R8010 brakes and R8050 levers.

Read several reports of the campag reds being the shiz, so might be worth trying w00dster!

I don’t think my rims have a basalt surface, but they do allegedly have a high temperature resin (not that they ever get very hot anyway).

Mavic CCUs on my road bike. Used Campag reds, Corimas (cork), Swisstop black… Plus others. The latter are about the best but wear out in a handful of rides where I live. In the wet, with a steep hill I’ve had the brakes full on yet still speeding up, not a nice feeling looking for somewhere to bail.
As already mentioned, the generic Chinese rims were quite good with basalt brake tracks.

I have some Zuus (no longer trading)

Interesting, looks like they did a bit of a “Sick!”

So, basalt coated rims = OK. Not coated = crapshoot.

Simplest option here would be to either just use the front brake for emergencies, saving the coating, or getting a basalt carbon front wheel used or new for around $150..

Interesting, looks like they did a bit of a “Sick!”

I now have a worthless warranty, but I’m not too bothered. The braking surface looks fine to my untrained eye.

I did replace the front hub and spokes but that was because I lost the end cap (and I fancied having a go at building a wheel).

Once I had finished the wheel and taken it for a ride, I then found the missing end cap, exactly where I had left it.

My experience is that I get not much braking then a lot of braking with no modulation in between. So while they are definitely a bit sketchy, they’re still ridable.

Pretty much this, though a lot depends on the surface treatment.

The bassalt is a type of fibre (like carbon fibers, glass fibers and whatever else they use) that handles heat better than plain carbon. That and high temp resins, although some of that is down to the temperature the resin is cured at initially.

Would be half the price to get a 2+ kg plain alu wheelset.

Comparing apples and oranges. You could still spend less than the carbon budget on some mid range alu wheels. Don’t go deep section, I’m all in favor of bikes having a bit of stiffness and zip about them, but a track inspired* frame with deep section wheels is not going to be a nice place to be for any long rides, and the extra weight is going to massively offset that feeling of stiffness and acceleration . Middle of the road rims (open pro, R470, archetype, A23, etc) weight about 450g each, built on bog standard novatec track hubs that’s <1800g. It’s only 2kg+ when you start looking at silly cheap deep V rims.

*or cheap and nasty hipster targeting stiff aluminium, both are going to be equally stiff.

H+Son Archetype does indeed look like a nice middle ground re V section at 25 mm at 470 grams, although if you go real fast a taller rim could plausibly save you some watts? Their SL42 is 615 grams so why not it looks sick as long as you don’t get blown sideways! My rides are max 30 min.

“The bassalt is a type of fibre (like carbon fibers, glass fibers and whatever else they use) that handles heat better than plain carbon.”

On my wheels, there is also a difference in surface finish. My basalt braking surface has a surface roughness akin to paper whereas my non basalt has a surface roughness akin to glass.

I should add, this is just on the braking surface, the rest of the wheel is glass like.

H+Son Archetype does indeed look like a nice middle ground re V section at 25 mm at 470 grams, although if you go real fast a taller rim could plausibly save you some watts?

Probably, but then so would gears. Realistically you’ll be geared for some degree of acceleration and top speed will normally be limited by that and cadence, not by wind resistance.

On my wheels, there is also a difference in surface finish. My basalt braking surface has a surface roughness akin to paper whereas my non basalt has a surface roughness akin to glass.

Might be ground back to a flat/even surface? Ground CFRP has that sort of texture.

Probably, but then so would gears

48×14 (usually stay in 40×11 on my geared 650b bike), I like to grind..did I mention it’s flat here? Woo, then quality V rims are the optimal rational choice for me – or maybe the F30 😉

Bear in mind the bigger the gear the more you will have to use the brakes because the less leverage you have through your legs.

Guess I’ll just have to try and see, if I go for the red cordoba figure I’ll just get a basalt coated 38mm carbon front wheel for $150 and get the red pads and the ultegra brakes if need be. Wasn’t aware the coating made such a big difference.

Araya has some nice 30 mm tall 545 gram polished silver rims also.. the F30 are out as they have no brake surface.

Bear in mind the bigger the gear the more you will have to use the brakes because the less leverage you have through your legs.

Very true. If you are riding 48 x 14 I take back my comment about not using the brakes much as your legs will not like pedal resisting and skid stopping with that gearing.

Another option is to never clean the rim and it will looking grubby and not too silver 🙂

On a one-braked fixed wheel, you will want an alloy brake track. In the wet, you will REALLY want an alloy brake track. My carbon deep section wheels have what can best be described as eventful braking. In the wet there is likely to be an event. Sure I race them, but I so prefer my HED wheels with alloy brake tracks.

Seriously, alloy isn’t such a faux pas. It will go nicely with the cranks – you don’t want scuffed black cranks, do you?

48×14 (usually stay in 40×11 on my geared 650b bike),

I raced a 10 on 50×14 on Saturday, it was awful. That included a 45 km ride there and into a headwind and the same back with a (bit of a) tailwind. 94 inches does not belong on the road, and you have NO stopping by skidding, resistance speed attenuation is so-so, but you won’t be stopping.

Mavic Ellipse wheels have a brake track. They are black, with black spokes. They probably won’t stay black. But they are nice Ksyrium-like alloy wheels.

learn to skid stop for quick stops 

There is nothing quick about skid stops lol

I’m borrowing an S-Works Tarmac SL6 off a mate. Muckle light, carbon everywhere, Dura Ace Di2, CeramicSpeed bearings etc – £8.5k new. Lovely piece of kit. It has Cane Creek ee brakes F&R and Roval carbon rims. I have been on it twice – once in the pissing wet and once in the dry.

In the wet, it had some part worn pads (no idea what they were) but It was the scariest thing I have ever done. Literally braking from the top of a hill and only started slowing when it flattened a bit. In fact, I’d swear that using the brakes actually speeded it up.

Bought some cheapo carbon-compatible pads off of Amazon (These – https://www.amazon.co.uk/gp/product/B00J4KG13M/ref=ppx_yo_dt_b_search_asin_title?ie=UTF8&psc=1) . After putting them on, it actually stopped, but not tried it in the wet yet.

decent caron rims and appropriate pads are fine. takes a rotation or two more.

but surely a fixie isn’t going to stop effectively anyway?

The worst part in the wet is the period before anything happens. There is one, and it feels like it’s about 40 minutes. It’s scary when it’s because a car’s cut you up or something! Generally they’re acceptable. In the dry, no problem whatsoever IME.

I had some old Bontragers which were truly woeful, some newer ones that were better, and some Chinese ones which are the best of the lot.

94 inches does not belong on the road, and you have NO stopping by skidding, resistance speed attenuation is so-so, but you won’t be stopping.

Ok so I’ll need to lean on my front brake if I want to run 90+ gear inches even on level ground? Then factoring in selling the original parts at half price:

a) basalt coated carbon front wheel with the best pads and caliper money can buy €150
b) silver alloy wheelset €300 (would need a silver crank to match em ahem, but looks naff with a red frame, so unless I could find a nice blue mataro or black dolan pre cursa used..)
c) front disc brake (matching color fork not possible so would prefer not to, best with very dark or black frames) €250

Option a) would be easiest/cheapest/most aesthetic to try first.

You can always try. The alloy Shamal lookalike wheels would be my choice. The real things are stupid expensive for collectors of serious fixed track bling now. But the are sooo nice.

Personally I find 50×15 isn’t a bad gear. Hard work around town stopping and starting, but good once going. I ride it in medium club rides with an average speed of 21 mph.

My choice for general riding is 3:1 so I ride 42×14, but the same gear is 48×16 if you want a more reasonable sized chainring for a 144 BCD track chainset like a Miche. That’s a great ride if you are fit. Off the peg fixies are 42×16, which is too low for rolling terrain. When I’m struggling I ride 42×15. That’s an Audax year.

Here’s a blue dolan pre cursa with H+Son SL42 (budget Shamals), would look quite neat with the same front rim.

And the Aventon Cordoba again which I’m considering at €699. For some reason I’m drawn to the molten orange, might have been the lego iceplanet set that I was very fond of as a kid

Bonus, Cannondale Track 93 icelandic green w shamals, easily €4-5k bike.

Pre cursa is an excellent bike. Has road bike rather than track geometry. Very stiff and has profiled aero down tube. It’s what I rode on Saturday. Mine has a TT front end and aeronova drops. Wheels are black rimmed Open Pros with shiny everything else. Brake is TT aero TriRig which cost about double the price of the frame!

Mine is white like all my race bikes.

Me and a friend both bought 38mm Light Bicycle rims which we had built up into wheelsets. We’ve both tried different types of pads – SwissStop; Raleigh; unbranded. In the dry the braking for both of us has been very bad. In anything approaching wet conditions it’s a suicide run… a truly terrifying experience especially in a group ride. Coincidentally, we both ride road fixed gear bikes with alu rims. It is nigh on impossible to stop using the power of your own legs, even at 10mph. At 20mph you are pushing down as hard as you can on the cranks and grabbing a fistful of front brake; even then, your stopping distance is way past a conventional road set-up. This has been a parallel experience for both of us. Conversely, I’ve seen quite a few riders in our club stop pedalling at a track session only to be rapidly thrown off their steed. FG bikes certainly have their challenges. The above stuff massively put me off building a LB FG set 🙁

It is nigh on impossible to stop using the power of your own legs, even at 10mph. At 20mph you are pushing down as hard as you can on the cranks

You have to skid stop, not just resist the pedals. Resisting pedals is for modulating speed gently, although at 10mph I can stop fairly quickly with just resistance.

I can stop in the dry within a metre or so of someone with brakes when stopping from 18mph (yes I have tested it)
We won’t mention how that fairs when it is wet…

Gearing is key though and I use an unusually low gear (38×17 / 60 inches) as I ride mostly off road and need to get up hills. The lower the gear the easier it is to stop – much easier when down at 60 inches. Only downside is I get overtaken by road riders on the flat but nevermind.

I’ve ran few sets of Chinese carbon wheels on various road bikes and found as mentioned the delay in braking in wet. Originally I found Swiss stop black prince were the best of the bunch very positive stopping in dry and decent in wet.
However I’ve now got two sets of giant carbon slr wheels(30mm) and 42mm set and with giant carbon specific pads they are the best braking I’ve had on carbon. Still not perfect in wet but no drama when needing to stop quick.

It really depends on the rim, and to a certain extent, the pad. I had some 2008 vintage Zipp 303s which were utterly terrifying if there was so much as a whiff of moisture around. Only used for hillclimb racing but I had to get back down after each event….On the other hand my wife has 2018 303 clinchers which are excellent in the wet or the dry.