Canyon vs Orbea vs Cube downcountry bike

Hi guys,

I’m looking to buy a downcountry bike out of the following 3:

• Canyon Lux Trail CF8
• Orbea Oiz M10
• Cube AMS ONE11 C:68X TM 29

I’m also open to alternatives up to 4700 EUR (should be shipped from Europe). What I care about the most is climbing performance (from smooth tarmac to gnarly technical rooty trails). Second important factor would be general comfort on the bike, for day-long rides. And third factor would be downhill performance.

Currently I have a 470mm reach, 100mm fork aluminum hardtail, that of course climbs ok on non-technical stuff. However, on stuff like roots, where riding out of the saddle is the only option (on a hardtail at least), I feel like an efficient full sus bike would do better. I also want to have more fun on the descends, without being forced to brake so much in order to not fly off the bike. So basically I’m looking for a bike that:

• climbs as well or better on tarmac and easy terrain
• climbs definitely better on technical stuff
• descends definitely better

compared to my hardtail. What would you go with?

On the Spirit of recommending what I have, any reason the Izzo isn’t on there? Love mine.

I have the old version of the M10, does all the things you ask for. At the price of eating bearings for breakfast, and a curious design decision with the cable entry into the chainstay which failed fairly quickly and caused hidden internal damage to the carbon (may be fixed on the current version, don’t know EDIT Yes, they have sorted that out, by the looks of it).

Depending on your budget, might also be worth considering a Spark or a SC Blur, both of which are fairly heavily discounted in various places ATM. I’m not sure the current Oiz M10 is ever going to be worth well north of 5K. A lot of the pared-down ‘downcountry’ bikes seem to me to be sacrificing longevity for weight.

EDIT2: Looked at the spec for the current M10 at 6K RRP – surprised as I would have expected AXS or at least a smattering of XTR at that price point.

Trek Top Fuel 9.7 still on sale 😉

In the Spirit of recommending what I have….

At that price point you should be including the EpicEvo on your list…

I’d be tempted to look at the new Occam SL, they ride like shorter travel bikes with more capability.  The Oiz paired down to race.

Get an IZZO, best DC bike available plus they’re on discount!  I have the Core 4 and honestly is the best bike I/I’ve owned.

I’d be tempted to look at the new Occam SL, they ride like shorter travel bikes with more capability. The Oiz paired down to race.

I have one of each, and OP would definitely notice the extra heft of the Occam going uphill compared with a 100mm hardtail, even with everything locked out.

If I was buying today, it would be a cut price Epic Evo or the Rocky Mountain Element.

I was tempted by both recently, but also remembered how much I still love my (still barely ridden) 2019 Element, so have just bought a -2deg angleset for that instead which I will be fitting soon along with a new SID Fork too…

Get an IZZO, best DC bike available plus they’re on discount!

I think the Spur / Element / Top Fuel might disagree with that statement.

also re the hardtail to full sus thing

i jumped from my 130(140mm) hardtail 29er on 1850g wheels with slightly heavier carcass 2.6’s on to the 120/120 Top Fuel, same sort of wheel weight on trail carcass 2.4’s.

Climbing is definitely more efficient, but it’s not night and day, its the difference of finishing an 11 min fire road climb along side the guys i ride with, rather than a few hundred meters back.

I ride clipped in and there’s no difference to where I’d pedal on my hardtail or the Top Fuel, I wouldn’t be sat pedalling over rough stuff on either bike, except to perhaps unweight the saddle slightly. But any of these bikes will descend better than a 100mm hardtail, or at least give you more confidence to try.

I don’t think any of those 3 are downcountry bikes. They’re xc bikes

 Cube is closest with a full fat 34 but you’ve got to go at least 130mm to qualify

As above, they’re all on the (nu skool) XC side of things. Get a Spur.

no one suggests a light build Cotic FlareMax – that would be ticking my boxes

Downcountry is a made-up category anyway. Just because XC courses have got rowdier and they need a bit more travel, doesn’t make a 120mm FS any less ‘downcountry’. It’s just a short-travel bike designed to be more fun on the downs without being a chore to climb with.

transition patrol

doesn’t make a 120mm FS any less ‘downcountry’

Sure it does. A 120mm forked Oiz, a 67.5deg Canyon are absolutely less capable in the “down” part than a 130mm forked Spark, Izzo etc

I’ve got the Canyon. I really like it. Obviously I can’t compare it to other bikes on the list.

I race it and don’t feel it holds me back even though it isn’t a pure race bike. The suspension works well for that purpose – absorbing the rough stuff but being “direct” enough that even climbing hard I often don’t lock it out.  It climbs well because of this. I can leave the suspension open for extra traction or lock it if its a gravel or tarmac ascent. It’s light, I’ve not weighed it but it’s the lightest full suss I’ve owned.

It’s very comfy. Both XCO and XCM distances are fine. Did GT7 on it and the nat marathon champs in ’22, Two bottle cages is a bonus, although you need side opening ones. Means you can do most races without a bag or at least minimal stuff on your back.

It’s long but that works well for seated climbing. I have a medium at 178cm. I have a hardtail but not sure on the size… Orbea Alma, I’d need to go check.  But the Canyon is perfect out the box.

Takes big tyres. The 2.4 Wicked Will on the front give me loads of confidence. Switched for a 2.3 race tyre for actual racing.

Geometry is very confidence inspiring. I’m normally happy on GT black, Innerliethen etc. This makes them much easier/faster. Id probably be happy riding Golfie on it should I need to (but it’s a little expensive for crashing and I have a bigger bike for that).

If it broke, I wouldn’t look anywhere else. I’d just buy another. The only thing that could be improved is the spec but you can do that spending more money.

Scott have a very similar offer and might be worth a look.

I also have a Lux trail (previous generation). It’s a brilliant bike for what and where I ride. I live in the Lakes.

It is very much a quick XC bike – I’m 6ft and ride a medium. Reach is pretty much spot on for me. I don’t think I’ve ever used the lockout but it is reasonably rocky and rough up here so perhaps I would use it (the lockout) more elsewhere?

Like jonba, if it broke, I’d happily have another.

I have an Oiz, and my previous bike was the older model of the Cube.

Great bikes, but they are XC bikes in my opinion. I only ride them to race XC or for bigger loops which include lots of tarmac or fireroads. I probably ride my trail bike more, it’s just more fun on trails. So unless you race I might suggest a downcountry/trail bike. Modern trail bikes with steep seat angles climb great.

To answer your question, of the 3 bikes you mention, they’re very similar, I’d be getting whichever has the best spec or biggest discount.

That Cube’s name is longer than the likely service life of the frame.

There was a thread about climbing a while back which made me go and check my Strava.

Turned out that my heavily built Cotic Flaremax FS was faster on long climbs (+1000ft elevation) than a previous 10 pound lighter 456Ti HT.  And definitely faster on anything but the smoothest descent.

Rocky Mountain Element Carbon, spec to suit budget.

I’ve only had a quick go but it was immediately obvious it was special.

Read this review:

https://m.pinkbike.com/news/field-test-2022-rocky-mountain-element.html

Regarding the YT Izzo – Core 4 is out of my budget, and core 3 is quite heavier compared to my other options.  Also, it seems more aggressive than other options, not sure how that would impact climbing

Regarding SC Blur and Spark – I couldn’t find any (deals) in my price range, shipping from Europe

Regarding the Orbea from my list – I would buy the 2023 version, for 4400-4500 eur.

Regarding Trek Top Fuel 9.7 – I found some deals, but other options have better components and are lighter

Regarding the Specialized Epic Evo – I really like the looks of this one, and also found some nice deals. However, I read in some places that it’s not too efficient on climbs due to pedal bob (and no remote). Any of you here can comment on this?

@jonba, thanks for the detailed report! Do you have the new Lux Trail? Regarding length of the bike, my current hardtail has 470mm reach, and 660mm effective top tube. A L-sized Lux Trail (I’m 191cm) would have 480mm reach, but 633mm top tube. Not sure how much of a difference it would be.

@prontomonto, I don’t race, but really enjoy long days in the saddle, with much (up to 3000m) climbing on anything from tarmac to technical stuff. I’d want to get a bike that would allow me to these/even longer rides.

@AD, @martinhutch, @alan1977, and everybody else, thanks for your replies! (Keep them coming :D)

The trail, first generation.

I’m shorter, on the medium but I went off reach numbers not top tube and it is spot on. I vaguely remember similar differences.

Those bikes all sound perfect for your usecase.

I wouldn’t discount the lack of remote lockout on the Specialized if you can get one for a good price. My Orbea has remote lockout, and Cube didn’t. I don’t feel it adds a whole lot, manual lockout is fine when not racing, and the lockout levers compromise the ergonomics of the dropper lever. In my opinion, being able to raise/lower the saddle without removing hand from you bars is more important than being able to lock/unlock.

At full price, the Canyon is probably best value, but you might find a significant discount on an Orbea or Specialized – I did, which made the Oiz cheaper than same spec Canyon. Shipped from a Spanish shop.

Rocky Mountain Element Carbon, spec to suit budget.

I’ve only had a quick go but it was immediately obvious it was special.

Read this review:

They are good, but also almost impossible to buy in the UK, and support is nearly non existent. Which is great, when you crack it, and are told you have to wait 6 months for a replacement front triangle. As me how I know….

It’s a better bike than my other half Spur, mostly because no flex stays, but the above & tiny bearings make for a challenging ownership prospect.

The Top Fuel, which I replaced it with, despite being a bit heavier, is a better bike. Treks ABP system is a noticeably better system on a short travel bike.

I’ll argue for the top fuel again, the 9.7 model i mentioned is on sale for £2800 around here in the UK, no idea what European prices run like.

the bikes the OP mentioned seem to show up at 4-5k (the Top Fuels RRP is about 4100 IIRC) so i wouldn’t be looking at spec comparisons, you’d have 1500-2000 to spend on any tweaks you deemed necessary, but the only differences i could see where higher spec shocks and forks (well some of them were StepCast so if weight is important to you…..) Drivetrain and brakes seemed approx the same, the stock trek wheels are pretty nice, as is the (all be it heavy)  dropper. mine, with pedals, crank fitted multitool, head tube CO2, NP carbon bars and bar end tyre plugs comes in at about 14.2kg.

Intense Sniper T should tick most of those boxes.

Some good deals on their site too https://eu.intensecycles.com/products/sniper-t-pro

I’m loving that someone is buying a bike based mainly on climbing ability rather than the usual downhill angle. Though this talk of fireroad ascents does worry me a tad.

I don’t race, but really enjoy long days in the saddle, with much (up to 3000m) climbing on anything from tarmac to technical stuff. I’d want to get a bike that would allow me to these/even longer rides.

I wish I’d bought something like your shortlist instead of the piece of shit giant anthem that I bought. Fine for cycling up 3km but the thought of doing that much descending on it would cripple me.

So I just stick some lighter wheels on the Occam and take that instead. Much more fun all round. 🙂

Id probably go for the Canyon Lux Trail. Its quite light and great value. Also looks like better geometry that the last version which had silly long seat tubes. Looks great for long days out and a mix of climbing and decending. Though the current Orbea Oiz does look lovely too. That was on my shortlist for a long time, then I had a chance to get a Transition Spur and love it.

A good downcountry bike should be a light 120mm full sus with modern geometry. Basically a more cabable XC bike. Or a shorter travel, much lighter trail bike.

My Orbea has remote lockout, and Cube didn’t. I don’t feel it adds a whole lot, manual lockout is fine when not racing, and the lockout levers compromise the ergonomics of the dropper lever. In my opinion, being able to raise/lower the saddle without removing hand from you bars is more important than being able to lock/unlock.

I found a Crankbrothers lever with adjustable angle which can sit in a good position but above the bar instead – works fine without having to move your hand.

About to move to a twistloc remote for lockout on a different bike. Have a feeling it won’t be quite as good.

Now then! Fresh from the Evil Empire. I thought I had settled on the Spur, this could be a bit more accessable for a test ride….

Thanks everyone. I upped my budget a bit and went with the Orbea Oiz M-PRO 2024. I got it for 5150Euro. I could have gotten the 2023 version for 150eur less, but the 2024 has the new Float SL shock with PTL instead of PTU.

I don’t think any of those 3 are downcountry bikes. They’re xc bikes

What the hell is downcountry anyhow? Is it yet another marketing niche for riding your bike ?

Used to be the gap between full-on XC bikes and longer-travel trail bikes, but XC has got rowdier with some riders riding 120mm FSers, so (thankfully) we can just call all of them XC bikes now.

Out of the 3, the Canyon.

But what you need is a Cannondale Scalpel with a Lefty

What the hell is downcountry anyhow? Is it yet another marketing niche for riding your bike ?

It was supposed to be XC bikes with 120mm forks strapped on, then it was 120mm light trail bikes like the Spur, now people suggest heavy trail bikes like the Cotic as well.

I’d stick with anything that you wouldn’t mind doing an XC race on, but would also be fun round a trail centre.

Don’t get angry about people using words to describe fun bikes though. Ride a bit more instead and you might get it.

Don’t get angry about people using words to describe fun bikes though. Ride a bit more instead and you might get it.

Oof, bit harsh after saying this:

also be fun round a trail centre.

😁