Building/Extension help, could someone give me a rough estimate?

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  • Building/Extension help, could someone give me a rough estimate?
  • Premier Icon wwaswas
    Subscriber

    I’ve seen figures of £1000-£1200/sq m quoted before but suspect that includes more finishing work than you’re having done.

    tbh, it’s going to be difficult to get other builders in to quote on a job that’s in progress I suspect.

    Maybe sit down witht he builder and go through all of their expected costs and work estimates? It’s going to be about damage limitation at this stage. Get them to justify why it’s gone wrong thus far and why you shoudl trust any estimates they’ve made to complete the job.

    You have got written quotes for the work that details what’s to be done etc? Go back to those with the builder too.

    Premier Icon footflaps
    Subscriber

    Have they started work yet?

    creamegg
    Member

    doesn’t really answer your question but didn’t you agree cost and scope of work with builder at the start?

    5thElefant
    Member

    I had something vaguely similar built last year.

    Same area, one room, pitched roof, screed floor, stud wall in-front of existing wall, all plastered. ~ £20K + windows (plus VAT).

    Premier Icon footflaps
    Subscriber

    Costs can vary depending on the details eg I had a very small extension to the kitchen, but it involved moving the main sewer, water main, gas main and boiler as all the services entered / exited through the wall I had removed. Cost £16k for 4 square meters of new floor space, but made a massive difference to usable space in the kitchen.

    Premier Icon Kona TC
    Subscriber

    Something similar that came in at £28k complete, hope it helps as a guide

    Janet & John’s Extension

    Also

    Single storey extension
    Single storey extensions are simply an extension built onto a part of the house whereby one side (or more) of the extension adjoins the property and there is only the ground floor plus any basement built to it.

    Main considerations here must be the size of the extension and its impact upon neighbours, how the roof will work with the existing building and specifically whether the same type of roof covering of the existing property can be used on the extension. Positions of flues, drains and excavations must all be considered.

    In some instances planning permission will not be required for single storey extensions. Building control permission will almost certainly be required.

    Typical costs can start at around £8-10,000*
    (*Figures are rough estimates and may not be representative for the whole of the country).

    Types of Extensions

    Wonderimg/hoping there are some experienced builders out there that could give me a rough guide cost for an extension, I realise it may not be easy without knowing exactly what’s involved but I’ll explain ….

    So, I’m having some building work done, a single story extension on the side of the property (bungalow), it’s being done under permitted development and the building inspector says the work is good so no problems there. But, we are having a bit of trouble with the builder and rising costs, we think he may have underestimated the work, we just want to make sure that the final cost is not excessive and relates to the work done.

    So, it’s a 3 x 12 metre extension, it’s on the side and to the rear so one wall is already existing but it extends 3m to the rear, 1m foundations, brick and block walls with insulation, concrete floor with insulation and screed finish, area divided into 2 rooms, flat roof going up into existing roof, 1 medium and 1 small window and outside door. That’s it, no plastering or electrics, just the builing work.

    So can anyone give a rough cost? Maybe if your an experienced buider you’ll know by square meterage or something? We have been advised to get 3 quotes from other builders to get a figure but no one seems keen to do this.

    Any help appreciated.

    Thanks everyone.

    The builder has started, nearly finished, but everytime there’s been a problem, for eg. he had trouble cutting out some of the original concrete base where a prefab garage stood at the side, he’s moaned about the extra work, the extra time, the extra costs of getting equipment to cut it, and when the building inspector has said something needs to be like this and not what he thought, the same moaning again. We had a quote originally for something smaller which was good so thought we could go larger, he gave a rough estimate for extra costs of materials and work. Another problem is he was recommended by a neighbour, he’s their son, so we thought it would all be ok as we’ve known the neighbour for years and had no problems, so stupidly we trusted what he said.

    Trying to nail him down to explain things has been difficult, he’s a very aggressive person and proven a real problem to deal with or talk to sensibly. I’m in the middle of writing to him to sort things out and getting some legal advice on where we can go and what to do now. He wants £30k, I’ve just measured it and it’s approx 10 x 35 feet, but that’s without plastering just bear block walls. He’s saying the extra costs are in meeting the building regs where he’s had to make a soak away, extra work for the air bricks, extra work and materials for the roof – all things I assumed he would have known about anyway before starting the job, we began to wonder if he knew what the building regs were? He keeps going on about the value it’s added to my property and we just say that’s got nothing to do with the cost of the work and it just ends up in an argument again.

    But, it’s proving difficult to get other quotes, someone said that a local builder won’t want to go against another local builder. Speaking to someone else recently they said they’re having their kitchen extended by 3x3m and that’s costing £30k before they even have the kitchen put in. So it’s going to be difficult to know if this is fair or not?

    Premier Icon wwaswas
    Subscriber

    I’d be looking to get a detailed breakdown of work done to date plus a list of what’s left to do with a quote to complete the work.

    With no agreed budget for the new works and a change to the design after he quoted originally it’s going to be tricky though.

    Premier Icon footflaps
    Subscriber

    all things I assumed he would have known about anyway before starting the job,

    Yep, he should have known all that to start and quoted against it. Sounds like he’s just not very good at quoting for stuff and/or doesn’t normally do complete projects on his own where he is responsible for everything.

    I suspect he’s under costed it all and is out of pocket – which isn’t your fault.

    What was your contract / agreement – build to plans?

    Premier Icon the-muffin-man
    Subscriber

    He wants £30k

    It all depends what he quoted to start with…

    If his original estimate was 25k – then the extra may be OK, if there is extra work involved.

    If his original quote was 15k – then he’s extracting the urine, and has underestimated to get the job.

    footflaps and muffin-man, our thoughts exactly, we think he’s not quoted properly in the first place and is out of pocket so bumping up the price all the time, he’s suddenly adding on every little thing. He had plans which I drew up myself, I’m used to drawing up stuff on Autocad/2D Design myself, which showed the layout and elevations with dimensions but he claims never to have had them, so I’m trying to find out if the building inspector has ever discussed the plans with him.

    His original quote was near to £15k and I budgeted £18-£20k expecting some increases, then it went up to £25k, then he said £30k to finish it, this led to a big argument outside the house, it was like an episode of Eastenders but after the watershed with lots of swearing and shouting (not by me by the way), I did record this and it’s quite shocking. Hense the reason for seeing a solicitor tomorrow with all the facts to see what we can do.

    ajc
    Member

    You have made it hard for yourself by not providing proper drawings and specification/schedule of works to quote on originally. You would normally expect the builders quote to reference these to make it very clear what he has quoted on. Did your drawings state that all works should comply with local authority regulations? You could get a surveyor to help you agree costs. It is very unlikely another builder will quote for you if they know the work has started.

    Hi ajc, the builder knew I would be applying for a building notice and adhering to local building regulations, I even sent the details and drawings to the planning office to make sure it was all ok, we needed to have the building notice in place and first inspections arranged before he could start work. A surveyor, that could be helpful.

    ajc
    Member

    A surveyor may be money better spent than legal fees. If you and builder agree to a cost that an independent surveyor has reached it should be a fair outcome to both parties.

    pjm84
    Member

    You have made it hard for yourself by not providing proper drawings and specification/schedule of works

    plus 1

    Rockape63
    Member

    Personally, I would get him to stop work immediately, pay him for what he’s done based on the originally spec and quote and then find someone to finish it, having given them precise details and drawings.

    Loads of Builders around, you just need to find one who talks your language.

    sleepless
    Member

    lack of agreed scope is always a problem. Can be fixed though. If the design changed after you accepted his quote, and if you are not clear on amendments then a third party surveyor would be advisable before anymore work carries on. £30K tops is what I would consider if design has changed since he started though for a single storey. What roof is it?

    zeffir
    Member

    Yep, I’d stop work. get a QS to cost up value of work completed so far and pay him off on that basis, if it goes to legal this should help cover you.

    +1 Footflaps last comment. The bloke doesn’t know how to spec/quote and is making it up as he goes along. Get him to justify/itemise current and planned expenditure before letting him do anything else. Failing that, just get someone else in.

    BTW, whereabout in the UK are you? Prices differ a lot in certain parts.

    Ok, so maybe I didn’t spec what thickness of cellotex to use, or when to put it in, but he said this is what I’ll do, and this is when I’ll do it, and by this week we’ll be at this stage, I thought he would know these things and at no point did he say I can’t do this without this drawing or this spec or this schedule, yes in hindsight things could have been better, he has done a good job, been very bad with communication and letting us know how things are progressing, if he had said at the start it will cost this now we would have revised things to come within budget. I’m prepared to pay a fair price but I don’t think shouting, swearing, threatening to pull it down and agressive behaviour has endeared me to deal with him in a normal manner.

    Premier Icon wwaswas
    Subscriber

    I think people are sympathising with the position you’re in now but also saying you could have helped avoid it and then offering a way to make progress.

    The main thing, for me, would be for work to stop until you have all agreed a financial structure for the work to be done in and a clear list of what is left to be done.

    wwaswas, that’s what I’m doing at the moment, work has stopped and I’ve informed him I’m sending some paperwork for him to respond to where I’m just outlining my concerns, what he intends to do to finish it, the final cost and terms for final payment, I’m getting a solicitor just to check the letter to make sure it’s ok and get some further advice, would just be good to know the work/cost is fair.

    Rockape63
    Member

    and….if you do discuss it further and he gets aggressive, walk away and say you are not prepared to discuss it unless he does so in a calm and professional manner.

    sleepless, it’s a 3 layer mineral flat roof, supposed to be finishing it off with 2 layers of insulation with an air gap as per regs, but I’m wondering if he’s now going to say that’s extra

    spacemonkey, I’m on the south coast, Brighton/Eastbourne way

    I just got a quote for a 3x8m single storey extension which came in at around £26k. Not got any more quotes yet so not sure how that stacks up. It includes re-directing drainage, all plumbing and electrics to 1st fit, 4 velux windows in the roof, and 2 bi-folding doors. I’m having a small support in the middle of the opening as the steelwork for an entire unsupported opening was a bit high.

    Mine doesn’t include any electrics or plumbing, 2 double glazed windows and a single door is included, he’s had to build a soak away for the roof guttering.

    It’s a difficult one, I’m willing to negotiate final cost as sometimes I think it’s too much especially when I look at the link provided by Kona TC up there ^^ where it cost about £28k for a 8x30ft extension including new kithen, electric, plumbing, plastering, flooring, windows and doors, but that’s in a different area, and sometimes I think it’s resonable. Just wait to see how he reponds to my letter and then consider getting an independent specialist if not satisfactory.

    Premier Icon tor5
    Subscriber

    Wobbiliscott – sounds similar to something I’m planning – where in the country are you to get that quote?

    wrightyson
    Member

    That is very 😯
    For an un plastered un wired un plumbed space, and for that money I’d be expecting a proper sarna or similar roof, not pissing felt!
    There’s not even a grands worth of concrete holding it all up!!!

    sleepless
    Member

    Flat roofs are keeping us busy at the moment. have you had a down pour on it yet? you can do your own leak test, I am thinking of the prospect any snagging work really. Roof flashings/ details are also a bit troublesome. A QS is a good idea,a Surveyor could also QS for you and help with a snagging list, but without a scope to baseline from this could be a bit vague. at least the QS could price work to date though.

    tor5, i’m near Derby. Its a local builder. Unfortunately he’s fully booked up to early next year so unless i’m going to wait (i.e. the wife) i’ll have to find someone else, but he was recommended to me. If you’re near me let me know and i’ll pass on his details.

    wrightyson – it isn’t unplastered – it includes finishing the walls, fitting of flooring and two radiators i.e. leaving the space ready for furnishing and fittings – so not quite 1st fit – more like first-and-a-half fit.

    wrightyson
    Member

    Not yours wobblis, the op’s.

    Premier Icon tor5
    Subscriber

    Wobbliscott – I’m in Surrey, so not much good I’m afraid – but thanks for the offer

    Well, for anyone still interested, nothings’s been resolved yet, we’ve asked him for a breakdown of costs, receipts for materials and 3rd party work, receipts for money, list and costs to finish, proposed final cost and guarantees for all work, not sure he understands what we want, it was all listed out in a letter so not sure what we’ll get back from him. He came around and still insists on his cost, I’ve had others builders look and they say it should be finished to a ready to decorate finish for that price, not an empty shell, also spoke to a QS who seemed surprised it’s an empty shell based on the size and cost – he was asking if the electrics and plumbing had been done yet. Nightmare goes on …. 😐

    Premier Icon wwaswas
    Subscriber

    Does sound like it’s going to drag on 🙁

    The bloke is either incompetent or blatantly trying to rip you off.

    spacemonkey, I think you’re right on both accounts, he even had the audacity to say it would cost more if he was doing it properly, ie receipts, and he would have to add 20% vat on top, it’s almost becoming a joke, especially when he said he had ‘a millionaire friend who would pay for a top solicitor’ 😀

    Premier Icon wwaswas
    Subscriber

    Threaten him with a VAT man.

    If he’s genuinely offering to do stuff ‘off the books’ and won’t issue invoices then they’ll be quite interested 🙂

    spacemonkey, I think you’re right on both accounts,

    Another problem is he was recommended by a neighbour, he’s their son,

    IMO he sees you as easy bait for making a few grand quid as he’s had an easy introduction via his parents. Did you get any other quotes at the time? If not, and he knew this, he probably thought he could screw you for the extra.

    wwaswas, that’s one thing we were thinking of doing anyway, even more so if we get no receipts and guarantees and I think Trading Standards will be interested to hear this too, they’ve already opened a case on the subject and the way he’s been dealing with us, there’s just no reasoning with the man, luckily I have conversations recorded including the threat to pull it down, him admitting he knew we had a budget but that doesn’t matter to him, and all the swearing and personal insults. It’s just crazy, he shouldn’t be allowed to trade, I can’t imagine he would treat other customers differently, he keeps going on about not ripping me off and he’s never had this sort of thing before! Really?? 😯

    Premier Icon verses
    Subscriber

    Sounds like a rubbish thing to be going through.

    Another problem is he was recommended by a neighbour, he’s their son

    Hope it hasn’t ruined a previously good friendship/relationship…

    Not sure about the friendship now, can’t believe she recommended him to be honest, surely she knew what he was like? No trouble with the neighbours ever but even she and her partner joined in on the personal insults and swearing, guess she’s sticking up for her son but to be honest if any of my family spoke to someone like the builder did to me and my parents who are in their late 70’s I’d have slapped them around the face in shame, just think they showed their true colours and when they ran out of argument just resorted to swearing shouting and insults. Yes, it’s a really rubbish thing to going through, I just can’t believe the way things have turned out, it’s taken over our lives at the moment 🙁 we feel numb, and unable to get on with our lives or anything, even lost my biking mojo!

    Oh I have to laugh!

    Well done if you’re still looking at this thread, but I’ve got a ‘breakdown of work’ from the builder, makes interesting reading, no receipts or detailed breakdown he’s just scribbled figures onto a single piece of paper, but get this … for a 6×6 ft L shaped bit of concrete path around one end of the building, and bear in mind this is materials I’d already paid for and it was left over from doing the slab floor, plus a small step using bricks I’ve already paid for and 2 of my paving slabs that were in the garden he wants to charge me £1000 … probably an hour or so’s work 😆 I have the most expensive step in the world!

    Premier Icon footflaps
    Subscriber

    I’d talk to CAB or a solicitor to see where you stand legally. Personally, I’d be looking to ditch your current builder asap. Then find someone else to finish the project.

    Already been onto CAB and Trading Standards are investigating, his behaviour has already been noted with the police, local solicitor being very helpful, got 2 quotes from local builders and got a Quantity Surveyor coming soon, problem is legally we need to give him a chance to put things right or respond to letters, another problem is the roof leaks so I’ve had to contact him about that, the roof was done by a contractor and I’m trying to make sure only they deal with it but he’s not being very cooperative. I’m slowly making sure I’ve got my case together. I just wonder what planet he’s on, does he think I would never query anything, I wonder if his mother knows what he’s like or what he’s doing!?

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