backhander – Member

BOD and Williams have without a doubt proved themselves at the highest level

Enlighten me. As already stated, the 6N do not count.

Yeah, Shane’s rubbish, isn’t he?

Backhander not in the slightest 😀

When have I ever said that SW is rubbish?
FFS. You have a poor arguement and so make false accusations.
Have a word with yourself.

I just tried to click on that youtube link and I’ve been blocked (I’m in work).

My computer tells me that:

‘The web site is categorised as: “Illegal/Questionable;’

Hmmmmm??

Can’t we all just be friends 😉

Oh and why doesn’t a good performance in the 6 nations count? Why do we have this hang up on S H rugby? You can be world class for your club side and be in a p!sh international team that always loses (Ieuan Evans for example) Just because you’ve never beaten New Zealand does not make you a lesser player.

Why aren’t they taking Chris Patterson again?

Why aren’t they taking Chris Patterson again?

That was one of my thoughts as well. I suppose 1/2p does give another kicking option, but Paterson is guaranteed points. Best kicker in the world, bar none at the moment and could well have been a game winner if things got tight! Plus, he’s a pretty versatile player, surely a good thing on a tour.

Backhander, I can only assume you are fishing

The SH would love a tournament of the 6N’s calibre. If you truly believe the 6 nations do not count then you probbaly missed some of the autumn internationals where even Scotland (2nd bottom last 2 years) could and should have beaten SA. Wales (4th) did not to badly either if I recall.

BOD would be a shoe in for NZ also.

Why aren’t they taking Chris Patterson again?

Because kicking apart he doesn’t offer anything that other players do (and do better!). Even Scotland can’t decide where to play him and with the best will in the world if Scotland don’t always play him then he’s not really Lions standard. BTW the reason that he is the ‘best kicker in the world’ is that he gives difficult kicks to other players.

Why would the SH teams envy the 6N?
Because of the 6N teams, there is only 1 in the top 5 of world teams?
Or perhaps because only 1 of the 6N teams has ever won a world cup or even reached a final?
As for SA, no teams ever play well straight off the back of a WC win.
While I don’t disagree that BOD and probably SW would make any team in the world, the 6N is not and cannot be judged as world class until it’s teams are judged as such, which at present, they’re not.
Rankings;
1. NZ
2. SA
3. Aus
4. Ire
5. Arg
6. Eng
7. Wal
8. Fra
9. Fiji
10. Sco
I’d happily accept 6N wooden spoons year after year and win world cups! 😀

He gives the long kicks to someone else, usually Godman, or Parks (if he is playing) he takes plenty of hard kicks from way out on the touchline, but he doesn’t have great distance. Any penalty inside the 10m line is usually guaranteed points if he is playing.

But I agree that he isn’t lions quality in anything other than his kicking, he can make good breaks occasionally but doesn’t have the speed to put them away, plus he is too small to go up against the boks.

BTW the reason that he is the ‘best kicker in the world’ is that he gives difficult kicks to other players

Utter rubbish! He gives the long range kicks to other players, not the same thing. He slots from both touchlines on a very regular basis.

His range is probably comparable to the much hailed Johnny. Just that within range CP is better!

No surprise he was not taken though as the squad has some great kickers and stonger players in the positions he covers. Do think he could have been a useful bench player as he covers all the back 3 and stand off

SRO got in before me. His arguments make sense to me though 🙂

Could have been worse, they could have taken charlie bloody hodgson or fat andy goode. The current favoured English fly halves are poor.

Utter rubbish! He gives the long range kicks to other players, not the same thing. He slots from both touchlines on a very regular basis.

I’ll accept that – it was a bit of a troll!

Do think he could have been a useful bench player as he covers all the back 3 and stand off

We don’t really need any more cover in the back 3, especially by a player who isn’t really a wing anyway and has just been slotted in there to make sure he is on the pitch.

10 is different though, we do need cover. Looping back to the original argument, would you then take Patterson over Hook/Cipriani/Flood etc?

The 6N’s is envied by the Southern Hemisphere for a whole host of reasons not all of them purely playing (history, tradition, following).

My point is simple. The 6 nations teams (Italy excepted) could all run all of the big 3 (4 if including Argentina) from the SH close and are capable of beating them

The world rankings can be misleading. Scotland beat Argentina in Argentina the last time they played for example!

10 is different though, we do need cover. Looping back to the original argument, would you then take Patterson over Hook/Cipriani/Flood etc?

No! Hook every time for me. Would probably have him ahead of Cipriani (though more picture of Kelly B in the papers would be nice :-)). Close call on Flood

I am pretty sure the SH teams don’t give a monkeys about the 6N.
Mainly due to the fact that on most occasions they beat the teams involved in it and only 1 ever makes a decent showing at the WC which is what really counts. Oh, and Italy ran Wales very very close on their last meeting.
Any SH’s care to comment?

Backhander if you are going to continue to fish please bear in mind that England have been manshamed by Southern Hemisphere teams on a regular basis since 03 with the lucky exception of scraping past the Aussies in Merseille in 07. France have also played in 2 World Cup finals.

DOB has proved himself able against the best in the world on lots of occasions, starting with the last Lions tour to Australia, who were at the time the best team in the world. Last few seasons havent been too hot and I’d question if he’s better than Shanklin now, but to say he’s never done it at the top level is plain stupid. Shane has also scored tries and torn defences apart against all the top teams and is proven world class winger. To suggest that just because these players havent won world cups or beaten the top sides IN A TEAM SPORT means they are not world class is nothing more than drivel.

My mistake on the french.
Apologies, but there seem to be a lot of celts who will hear nothing bad said of any player of their team while slating all english players.
Still, 2nd in the 6N isn’t too bad really (even though it’s not the highest level). The French didn’t do too badly either.
I wouldn’t describe beating the aussies conceding no points is a scrape.

I am pretty sure the SH teams don’t give a monkeys about the 6N.

Maybe they are playing up to the British audience but pretty much every SH pundit has said the SH would love to have a 6N’s standard of tournament

Think they’d like a swap?
They can have the 6N and we’ll divvy up WC wins between us.

I blame Sky TV. The hype they give the premiership just gets everybody else’s backs up.

England’s biggest problem is the criticism they give their own players, leading to ridiculous levels of turnover in players and coaches.

So far I’ve seen “experts” pick holes in the games of; Wilkinson, Worseley, Sheridan and Back(FFS, he was part of the holy trinity).
No player is perfect and there are faults with everybodies (incl S Williams) game.

BackHander, explain to me how BOD (who incidently as a Henson lover I cannot stand) has not proven himself at the highest level. If you say these things you need to back them up.

Worsley is shit, Sheridan is good but over rated, Back and Wilkinson were class but never the best in the world close, but not the best, both played with some truely world class players (Hill, Johnson, Dilly Dally etc)

Hook hasn’t come on as well as I thought he would, he was brilliant at Neath, his first games for the Ospreys were superb but he seems to have stagnated a bit. I really thought he was going to be a Carter but just hasn’t come on. There is still time but I think he has reached his limit.

I think Argentina are over rated, the World Cup performance was effective but very limited.

We do struggle against Italy but Englands performance was nothing to write home about. We played a second 15 which only proved one thing we dont have the strenght in depth that the Weastern Mail reckons.

Why is Shanklin so underated?????

No mate, I’ve invited you to enlighten me and been offered 3 lions games.
BODs accolades read 6N, 6N, 6N.
Worseley shit? Made Powell look like an amateur recently.

So anagallis, as a Henson lover does that mean your a fat singer that sells crisps?

Sorry had to be done 🙂

But I agree with you that BOD has proved himself, the very fact that Umaga spear tackled him to take him out of the tour last time is proof that he was regarded as the best player in the world at that time, and that was a shameful tackle. I admit his form dipped slightly but this 6N he was awesome. This Lions will be his swan song I think, he is getting on a bit now and has lost that half a yard of pace.

Sheridan does not have enough tricks in his locker, when he first came on to the scene he demolished other players in the tight and loose. He now has to devote much more time to the scrum as people have learned to play him. I think prop/lock is one of the few areas we are fairly well off.(Although I feel Ford would be a better bet than Mears)

I admit I’m being petty as I think BOD is a fantastic player, the lines he runs are genius but (and it’s no fault of his) he’s not had the opportunity to really shine on the world stage due to a lack of success from the irish team (again 6N aside). I feel a bit sorry for Henson, he’s suffering form JW syndrome a bit and the injuries seem to be getting him down. Maybe it’s time for a change (premiership please?!?!?!).

A A – Worseley had a very good even great 6N’s. No?

I used to train with Sheridan and frankly he is wasted. His scrummaging is at best ok. His real asset was always the close in pick and drive. Watching big, stong players hanging off him like 9 stone weaklings was always an impressive sight. You rarely see that in his game today 😥

Stronger guy you will not meet (well unless you count those ‘roid freak shows!). Truley gobsmacking what he does in the gym. Just does not fully translate onto the pitch

Would not have taken him personally.

Worsley is great at tackling but hasn’t got an attacking game. Not as good as Nugget but I am biased.

I never though dillydayglo was world class, big lump strong but not world class. His ego and publicity seeking are world class.

Wors isn’t that bad going forward, no vision, no pass but a strong powerful player, which I have a feeling is what we’re going to need especially against the likes of Burger.
Sheridan made more yards that any other loosehead in the 6N. He doesn’t see enough crash ball. Dally was quite clearly the 8 of his era, but I wish Parise was english he’s as good as any including Collins.

Ok guys – stop bickering. There will always be differences of opinion about players partly based on the playing style you prefer. For example I would much rather play Dickinson the Scots prop than Sheridan simply because he is faster over the ground. Jason White is a hero of mine.

However we should be getting behind this lions team. I think its a great selection. Not bloated with too many players, not full of over the hill, overrated or unfit players, full of genuinely exciting and classy players and with the potential to both match up to SA in the “beast” stakes and run rings round them with pace and guile.

We have potential match winners all over the place – a couple of ginger monsters ( M Williams & POC ) who will disrupt and steal SA ball, players with the beast in them who will never take a backwards step and will take on SA in the tight, and genuine pace (Moyne) mixed with a bit of magic (BOD S Williams)in the backs to score tries.

We can all bitch about our favourites not getting in but in our hearts we know many of these calls were marginal. Geech has made it clear at least some of the selections were made on the basis of morale, cohesion and team unity when making these 50 / 50 picks. Anyway BOD is[/b] God!

The Lions have the players and management that gives them the potential to gel into a truly great team and I for one and really looking forward to it.

Come on the Lions!

Sheridan made more yards that any other loosehead in the 6N

Hmmm not sure about that. Dickinson from Scotland made a lot of yards. Though granted not the close in ‘hard yards’ and he can’t scrummage his way out of a wet paper back

Point about Sheridan is that it should not even be up for debate. He is awesome at that if he is used correctly. I just don’t think he is.

BTW – TJ, fundamentally I agree 🙂

Fair enough TJ,
I do like a healthy debate, and Rugby is close to my heart.
For what it’s worth, I’m 1/2 Irish (dad) 1/2 eng (obviously), I work in Cardiff and go to wales pretty much every weekend riding!
I’d like another flyhalf, what with Burger on the prowl.
The test 15 is going to be the interesting bit, you thought people are squabbling now!

So what we have here is the usual Home Nations Rugby banter:
player x is great but player y is rubbish,
interspersed with the usual SH balderdash
(I’m a Kiwi and it’s a world cup and I can’t breath…I must be choking)
and topped off with a call to drink up and be friends 😉

Go Lions – shame I never see the matches as I won’t pay for Sky and in the household negotiations for time any pub Rugby watching would be taken directly from my MTBing budget…

There are 6 games before the first test so I think everyone will get a run out to settle down into the tour, those that perform will get picked. There will be a few injuries and subsequent call ups, I’m looking forward to seeing two huge packs going head to head and seeing some real fast open back play.

Hopefully it will all live up to expectation, and the best thing… the time difference won’t get us up at silly o’clock to watch the games!