Brexit 2020+

Well, I met a mixed heritage guy from Gloucester on a building site last year. He’d voted leave to, in his own words, **** things up. (Actually, not made up.) There must be millions more like him. So clearly not a racist/xenophobe issue at all.

Extrapolate much?

What did the ratio look like to you at the brexit day party in Trafalgar Square.

Local village to me has had its sign modified over the weekend… 🙄

Well nissans take is

A spokesman for Nissan Europe said: “We deny such a contingency plan exists.

Any big business will have a contingency plan,you hedge your bets and it’s interesting scenario.

I’m assuming this is the same Nissan that was being offered secret state aid in 2016 🙂

I’m assuming this is the same Nissan that was being offered secret state aid in 2016 🙂

I suspect saving the jobs at the first area fo vote Brexit will be a major priority.

Extrapolate much?

No, not at all. 😀

Local village to me has had its sign modified over the weekend

From your photo, it looks like the 30 limit sign has been whitewashed out of history as well. Freedom!

@Edukator you’re talking about something else entirely, the original context was about reduced minimum wage for diasbled people. I’ll pass on checking out those things Edukator but thanks for mansplaining them to me. I have a daughter with Down Syndrome so unlike the armchair moral philosopher I’m actually navigating this particular ethical minefield. It’s easy saying the right things about disability, it’s another thing entirely to have to confront your own fears and prejudices every day.

Dreadful news coming out of Japan re Nissan.

But that is what the voters of Sunderland chose, and we must respect that. I suppose it is dreadful that they will now expect me to pay their dole money.

Anyway, great to see that we aren’t letting the architects of divide and conquer politics get away with it.

Farage a short while ago Brandishing a 50p coin, he suggests that unrepentant remainers now ressemble “flat-earthers”, even Tony Blair has accepted the battle is over and UK will not rejoin the EU.

A little ironic … but the focus is already changing.. The masses need to be distracted in an ongoing way before they realise

I’ve noticed already that the Brexit “FB friends” I still have already changed their focus to climate change denying.

Anyway, great to see that we aren’t letting the architects of divide and conquer politics get away with it.

Before reconciliation, truth.

They even put it that way around in post apartheid South Africa.

I don’t think that was accidental.

@Edukator you’re talking about something else entirely, the original context was about reduced minimum wage for diasbled people.

The argument was around the word “slavery”. I pointed out that the reduced rights, and working and living conditions of handicapped workers fulfil many of the conditions associated with slavery, and reducing the minimum wage for them compounds this. It’s blatant discrimination, exactly the type of abuse the ECJ/EU has been successful in fighting at a continent wide level. You are about to lose that protection.

Given your persoanal situation I’m surprised you disagree with anything I’ve written.

Well, I met a mixed heritage guy from Gloucester on a building site last year. He’d voted leave to, in his own words, **** things up. (Actually, not made up.) There must be millions more like him.

The day of the result, as we all went into work pretty shell-shocked, we were talking about it and the studio manager of the place I was freelancing said that he’d voted to leave. This is an intelligent, educated, liberal bloke, who works and lives in Manchester city centre, so we all asked why. His answer:

“to give David Cameron a kicking. I did’t think for a minute that leave would actually win”

Its fair to say that there was some pretty vocal criticism of his logic

Be surprised, because you’re bounding from tenuous assumption to assumption to attack Brexiteers and by extension me because I don’t buy your assumptions.

Even your own argumnent sucks. You’ve made a case for why the lot of disabled people is dreadful – akin to slavery. But then say the ECJ/EU has been succesful at fighting it, yet somehow after 40 years we’ve only got to the point of disabled people being slaves? If that’s success then what’s failure?

Brexit sucks for all kinds of reasons, this isn’t one of them.

Even if there was a massive kiss and make up, it would be extremely difficult to market any kind of sensible collective forward thinking as anything other than a damage limitation exercise.

That would always pose the question “so why bother with Brexit at all, then?”

The same question that no one in favour of it seems to be able to answer sensibly.

binners

“to give David Cameron a kicking. I did’t think for a minute that leave would actually win”

I know several people who basically voted leave with this mindset
– had enough of the tories
– it was a protest vote
– don’t like Cameron….

BUT DIDN’T THINK LEAVE WOULD ACTUALLY WIN…(in all cases)

Bellends. The lot of them.

I’m not attacking anyone, Tomd, I’m pointing out the consequences of Brexit. Relative success is what we had until Friday, because it’s better than 40 years ago. The aim of Brexit is to reduce the rights of everybody. When you remove all choice and force people into situations they become slaves. People used to be able to escape the British system and chose another country. They are now trapped in the UK. Modern slavery is a recognised and much discussed issue, for you to decide at which point you yourself or a member of your family becomes a slave, and who or what to.

I thought one of the benefits of this new thread was that I wouldn’t have to hop forward a page because of all the deleted posts. A suggestion to Cougar and Drac: could you just delete the contents of posts but leave the empty post so the page numbering works.

You’ve made a case for why the lot of disabled people is dreadful – akin to slavery. But then say the ECJ/EU has been succesful at fighting it, yet somehow after 40 years we’ve only got to the point of disabled people being slaves? If that’s success then what’s failure?

This is, I think, on the back of an article suggesting that disabled workers be paid less, I’m glad the ECJ/EU don’t allow that. Also, their regulations are a statutory minimum, were this country sufficiently open-hearted, it could of course operate at a higher level.

https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-51351914

Excellent, I see the Government is still going with the “we’re better than everyone else” approach. Carrying on that narrative that Johnny Foreigner won’t be telling us Brits what to do.

How long can playing to the Daily Mail / Telegraph crowd actually work before reality meets it head on?

I know several people who basically voted leave with this mindset

Yup me too, but only one couple that I know personly, just shows you the danger of polls getting it wrong too.

This is, I think, on the back of an article suggesting that disabled workers be paid less, I’m glad the ECJ/EU don’t allow that. Also, their regulations are a statutory minimum, were this country sufficiently open-hearted, it could of course operate at a higher level.

The flip side being, why would the average private company employ anyone less able to do a job, which is one of my beliefs that either nationalisation is good or government needs to subsidise those companies that do employ those on the margins of employability.

How long can playing to the Daily Mail / Telegraph crowd actually work before reality meets it head on?

The almighty reality check is already in the post, where the true weakness of our negotiating position becomes real. At this point there are really only 2 options:

1. Quietly backtrack and accept regulatory alignment with the EU

2. Crash out on no deal at the end of the year

Thats it. Anyone who thinks different and that there are other options available is completely delusional.

The problem is that with his flag-waving playing to the Brexiteer gallery, Joris Bohnson has, just like May before him, already painted himself into a corner. So he won’t/can’t back down or compromise. leaving only one option… no deal.

And his mates and paymasters are fine with that, because they’ll all do alright out of it

We’ll be crashing out at the end of the year. Everything that goes on between now and then is just a charade

I know several people who basically voted leave with this mindset
– had enough of the tories
– it was a protest vote
– don’t like Cameron….

BUT DIDN’T THINK LEAVE WOULD ACTUALLY WIN…(in all cases)

Bellends. The lot of them.

Yep, a couple of people at my former place of work did the same. Again, educated and supposedly intelligent people but just a bit disaffected and felt that they were showing a bit of a protest vote over life in general.

The flip side being, why would the average private company employ anyone less able to do a job,

Because of a government imposed quota. If they don’t employ they quota they pay an extra tax instead. That’s what happens in France.

https://www.service-public.fr/particuliers/vosdroits/F23149

And in about half of Europe:

https://emploi.handicap.fr/a-travailleur-handicape-europe-11344.php

Britain gave up any protection of handicapped jobs in 2011 according to that article

And his mates and paymasters are fine with that, because they’ll all do alright out of it

Politically too, they can and will simply claim “that’s what everyone voted for”.

Local village to me has had its sign modified over the weekend…

although for some reason you’ve neglected to mention the fact that most locals were really annoyed by this, and as soon as someone found some white spirit it was put back to normal.

although for some reason you’ve neglected to mention the fact that most locals were really annoyed by this, and as soon as someone found some white sprit it was put back to normal.

Well of course they were. Most people aren’t morons, hence the rolling eyes emoji.

I simply posted a photo of moronic behaviour. Apologies for not posting the entire story! I didn’t say anywhere that the village sanctions this did I? I used to live in that village, and have friends who live there. Don’t really see why you’re attempting to have a pop. 🤔

How long can playing to the Daily Mail / Telegraph crowd actually work before reality meets it head on?

Depends on how long you can plausibly blame it on someone else for.

My worry is that the word ‘plausible’ is being applied to the Daily Mail and Telegraph crowd.

People can delude themselves in all sorts of ways to avoid facing reality.

Hypernormalisation.

Clearly a protest vote and nothing to do with xenophobia.
https://twitter.com/clinoncdoc/status/1223991774521282560?s=21

I simply posted a photo of moronic behaviour. Apologies for not posting the entire story!

if you had posted the entire story it would have been heartening – I.e. there’s one or two emboldened nutters but actually the vast majority of people are still sane/not racists. Instead we’ve got some Facebook style shitpost that teasingly implies everything is going to hell in a hand basket just for a bit of shock impact and/or to stir things up.

What we need now as a society is examples of people coming together, rather than giving credence to the minority who want to make things worse.

Joris Bohnson is presently setting out his Brexit vision

He’s maintaining that there will be no race to the bottom when it comes to regulation and controls, and that the UK is only refusing regulatory alignment with the EU as the UK would want to bring in far higher standards.

The day of the result, as we all went into work pretty shell-shocked, we were talking about it and the studio manager of the place I was freelancing said that he’d voted to leave. This is an intelligent, educated, liberal bloke, who works and lives in Manchester city centre, so we all asked why. His answer:

“to give David Cameron a kicking. I did’t think for a minute that leave would actually win”

Its fair to say that there was some pretty vocal criticism of his logic

Sadly Brexit was always about emotion not facts…. and the majority of Leave Voters have not responded positively to criticism of their logic… and if anything many have just dug their heels in

What we need now as a society is examples of people coming together, rather than giving credence to the minority who want to make things worse.

Yes. Absolutely.

So, a damage limitation exercise, then?

I’m up for that, I’d even be willing to pretend it is something else – to keep people happy.

What then happens when Farage pops up and declares that, because we are not carpet bombing Dresden, it is a betrayal and not a true Brexit?

Are we to assume that people will chase him out of town in his socks this time?

Or will they revert to type and go along with him again?

Recent history suggests the latter, I am afraid.

Dreadful news coming out of Japan re Nissan.

The Koreans and Chinese are eyeing that plant …

I don’t want to go down the blame route, we are where we are.

What I will do is hold politicians to account as they move ‘forward’ this year to get the best deal we can.

I am also thinking about what I can do personally to lever some ‘soft power’ – like I am going to encourage everyone to take part in Erasmus+, more village and town twinning, more European cultural events (we have huge German and Dutch population it seems in Dunblane) etc. This positive action is something I can do – and is not divisive.

although for some reason you’ve neglected to mention the fact that most locals were really annoyed by this, and as soon as someone found some white spirit it was put back to normal.

An excellent point.

However, would the sign have been defaced in that manner without Brexit?

Instead we’ve got some Facebook style shitpost that teasingly implies everything is going to hell in a hand basket just for a bit of shock impact and/or to stir things up.

Yeah, ok dude. Take it however you like. I’m the bad guy here 👍

*wanders off with head in hands… 🙄

Apparently the vacant space is going to be repartitioned as well.

However, would the sign have been defaced in that manner without Brexit?

probably not, but I very much doubt the 1 or 2 people responsible for this have magically turned into **** because of Brexit, they’ve probably always been ****, this has just allowed them a new avenue to express their ****-ishness. I think it’s really important that we don’t focus on the TINY percentage of people doing things like this, instead we focus on the MAJORITY of people who are disgusted by it (and actually go out to fix it!)

(Incidentally apparently the 2 people who removed the paint from the signs were pensioners – who as a demographic in general have probably been unfairly targeted with a lot of rage, etc post-brexit. Bicycle riding pensioners no less!)

Yeah, ok dude. Take it however you like. I’m the bad guy here 👍

well, if you ain’t part of the solution, you’re part of the problem 😂😂😂

The same majority which voted Yes in 2016, and Tories in 2 GE.