We’re clearly not doing irony today….

Sunak, as a lifelong brexiter **** just admitted that there is no benefits to being outside the EU/single market.

This should finish him but the deluded brexiteer cuntwombles will hail it as a win.

@caher yep its most certainly outdated in the Republic and in most areas in the North, but there’s little vocal enclaves, usually with painted kerb stones, where it matters.

It looks good if you’re Northern Irish. EU legislation retained, GFA intact, human rights legislation intact and for things likely to stay in NI a green lane so most foodstuffs.

It sounds just like Dover-Calais of days gone by: red lane if you have stuff to declare that’s on a list because the EU really doen’t want it going south for some reason and a green lane for rest.

As with the orignal deal the PM will paint it as a victory and the EU member states will smile sweetly and give each other knowing winks.

Go NI!

I was always told that the ‘unbelievable investment opportunities’ would apply to the whole UK after Brexit, not just the bits that effectively remain in the single market.

Green Green Green Red Green Green Red ffs Green Green Red another Red Green Green Green smuggler Green Red Green Green Green dodgy lukin meat Green Green Green Green Red Green you can’t bring that in here Green nothing to declare except yer genius is it Red

— The Irish Border (@BorderIrish) February 27, 2023

brexit was just like doing an ego driven flounce from a party, then finding out no-one followed you out, and it’s cold and raining

Mitch benn has a concise summary on Twitter.

The very same people who told us that we absolutely have to leave the single market are now championing the huge benefits that Norn Ireland enjoys by staying in the single market?

Just seen that clip on the news, **** me, we’re so far through the looking glass now….🤯

I can’t remember who it was but wasn’t there a government Brexiteer on earlier getting all emotional about how good this deal is?

WTAF?

It will be interesting to see where this leads labour in terms of single market / customs union membership . I understand why they are playing it safe at the moment and saying what they think some red wall voters want to hear but when the brexiteer prime minister has effectively said look how good the single market is ,it makes that position seem pretty daft to me  .

^^ Yep, I wonder if, long term, there could be some positives for the rest of the UK too. Unintended consequences and all that. Unintended as, let’s be honest, this government isn’t ruling the UK to make things better for most of the people within it anymore.

It’s a tennative step to rejoining, still a way off, hopefully will open up Horizon 2020 membership at least.

Mind you, the DUP could still torpedo this. I bet they are bloody furious in reality but they have rather exquisitely painted themselves into a corner on this one!

Just seen that clip on the news, **** me, we’re so far through the looking glass now….🤯

Yep it’s well weird.

They’ll all cheer it today then be squabbling about it tomorrow, still it’s going to torpedo BJ’s return.

Isn’t this another thing that was floated in the ‘May’ days now being pulled out the bin and recycled like the original ‘Oven ready’ deal.

It’s a tennative step to rejoining, still

I can see rejoining the Single market being sold as a Brexit benefit tbh 🙂

EU have been very smart here, killed the nasty EU propaganda stone dead, created a working example of a future EU/UK business model, used Rishi to make Boris, Erg, DUP look incompetent and out of touch, got the Boris NIP bill scrapped. All this and maintaining governance/regulatory alignment.

And gave Rishi a “victory” over the cunning Europeans… in short a ****ing masterclass in diplomacy and negotiation.

However that penny may well have dropped with the ERG, DUP, Add in Rishi will need the Labour party to get it passed… Rishi is going to wake up in a few weeks wondering why his arse is sore.

Think about what would be the perfect solution for the EU.

I don’t think EU member states want the UK back as a full member, they don’t want the likes of Farrage back in the parliament or a UK veto blocking things. So full membership no.

They would like to sell us more stuff, trade and make things in the UK with less faff. Trade is good so long as it’s fair trade. So customs union yes.

Singapore on Thames in your back yard is irritating so limiting the UK’s financial excesses, money laundering and dodgy financial services would be good. Regulatory allignment will be a condition of any progress.

The EU will barter what it wants for what the UK desperately needs. It’s started.

In the long terme I expect a Swiss or Norway type deal and Starmer was dumb to rule it out.

In the long terme I expect a Swiss or Norway type deal and Starmer was dumb to rule it out.

Starmer won’t be PM in the long term. He can rule out what he needs to now, to ensure election. Subsequent leaders can easily rule it back in when we’ve had plenty of time to wallow in our circumstances.

Oh course there is another benefit to all all this.*

When NI’s economy flourishes (even more that now) there will be a *direct* comparison for people to make with the rest of the stagnated UK…

That comparison can’t be bs’ed say as being due to Ukraine, covid, a smelly fart or whatever. It will be absolutely crystal clear that it’s due to NI’s closer relationship with the EU.

I think that’s when talk of rejoining the CU etc will really get going.👍

* Unfortunately the rest of the UK has to suffer before the distinction between NI and “the rest of us” can be made.😐

I’ve just seen the daily excess headlines “rishis Brexit bonus” 🤣🤣

We’ve been through this Molgrips. Recent polling on Brexit and rejoining says the majority want a closer relation than now. Labour’s refusal to consider the most obvious compromise of a Norway deal will lose more votes than it will win.

Only 30% of Labour voters voted leave in the first place. OK some like you and Dazh have become Brexit apologists but as many STWers have said they were wrong to vote Brexit and more have forgotten they said they’d vote leave. How many determined Brexiters left? 5

the majority want a closer relation than now

The journey back is long and slow, and even when finished will fall well short of what we had. That’s why it was such a foolish thing to do. You can’t just leave and try it out for a bit and return quickly if you change your mind. Leaving has a long term negative effect, and will take another decade or more of hard work minimising the damage. There’s no quick fix, just a long slow repair. This week has given us a small glimmer of hope that even this government are acknowledging that, with steps towards keeping NI working well with the rest of Ireland and the EU and dropping the bill that would have created a crisis in the UK:EU relationship over the island of Ireland, and also some involvement in Horizon in the future for the UK… hopefully.

They would like to sell us more stuff, trade and make things in the UK with less faff. Trade is good so long as it’s fair tradeSo customs union yes.

Singapore on Thames in your back yard is irritating so limiting the UK’s financial excesses, money laundering and dodgy financial services would be good. Regulatory allignment will be a condition of any progress.

The EU will barter what it wants for what the UK desperately needs. It’s started.

In the long terme I expect a Swiss or Norway type deal

? Switzerland and Norway are outside of the Customs Union. Trade between the EU members and those countries involves border controls and paperwork. This type of deal does not exactly equal less faff.

We’ve been through this Molgrips. Recent polling on Brexit and rejoining says the majority want a closer relation than now. Labour’s refusal to consider the most obvious compromise of a Norway deal will lose more votes than it will win.

We also did that not all votes are necessarily worth the same. The majority of people don’t matter if they are already in safe seats, whether red or blue.  They won’t make red seats more red, and won’t make enough of a difference when it comes to it in blue ones.

It’s how a change of policy would sit with those that are swing voters in marginal seats. Which is a risky spin and which might not be needed right now, when the primary goal is to get the Tories out with as big an impact to them as possible.

That doesn’t make me an apologist, rather a pragmatist. Maybe even a dishonest one, if you consider playing the game to win as big as possible more important than sticking to my absolute opinion.

We’ve been through this Molgrips.

Yes sir, sorry sir. Won’t do it again sir.

molgrips
Full Member

Starmer won’t be PM in the long term. He can rule out what he needs to now, to ensure election

This was a kind of convincing argument when they were tied in the polls. Now, it’s not. He’s not doing this through necessity, he’s s leading where he wants to go.

psst … he’s “won” f all so far … losing the next election is still possible … but let’s not replicate “that thread” here

Agree, polls could easily swing back tories way, especially if economy picks up, that would also change sentiment toward rejoining

Likewise a big eurozone recession would change that too.

Whoever is leading Labour has a v narrow line to tread

All of you who claim that Starmer has become a Brexiter are still ignoring the bind that our deeply undemocratic voting system puts him in. @theotherjohnv pointed out above that not all votes are worth the same, and Raphael Behr wrote today “There is no Brexit position that can satisfy Labour’s liberal Remainer base without repelling the leave voters on whom a majority depends”.

All of you who claim that Starmer has become a Brexiter………………

Are just trying to bully by name calling, same as they are by saying the same about anyone else who accepts them at a majority of people voted to leave and that’s what we’ve had to do.
Presumably they’re doing it because bullying by belittling and name calling has proven such a successful tactic for Remain Ultras ever since 2016 and has had nothing to do with handing us the most right wing government ever.

I suppose this means they can now get with the good old USA deal.

I read that Raphael Behr article earlier and have to admit it was one of the most sensible analyses of Brexit as it now stands that I have seen.

“There is no Brexit position that can satisfy Labour’s liberal Remainer base without repelling the leave voters on whom a majority depends”.

I get the sneaking suspicion that Starmer wants his majority first, and hopes that within a first term, a combination of demographic shift, fatigue, worsening domestic economic circumstances etc make the popular clamour for closer ties and easier trade with the EU impossible to ignore.

Well they’ve snuck this ‘Benefit’ out quietly:

Keeping Our Borders Safe?

Frontline police and border force officers will remain locked out of information on a key EU database of terror suspects, criminals and immigration offenders for at least another four years, the Home Office has quietly admitted.

What’s the point of vetting travellers if you can’t do basic checks on them?

All of you who claim that Starmer has become a Brexiter………………

Are just trying to bully by name calling, same as they are by saying the same about anyone else who accepts them at a majority of people voted to leave and that’s what we’ve had to do.
Presumably they’re doing it because bullying by belittling and name calling has proven such a successful tactic for Remain Ultras ever since 2016 and has had nothing to do with handing us the most right wing government ever.

Is calling someone a brexiter bullying now?

You do know that the result was within statistical margins of error and a significant amount of water has flowed under that bridge by now?

All of you who claim that Starmer has become a Brexiter………………

Are just trying to bully by name calling, same as they are by saying the same about anyone else who accepts them at a majority of people voted to leave and that’s what we’ve had to do.
Presumably they’re doing it because bullying by belittling and name calling has proven such a successful tactic for Remain Ultras ever since 2016 and has had nothing to do with handing us the most right wing government ever.

Wow, that’s some serious gaslighting… lol!

Is calling someone a brexiter bullying now?

I was called a racist for saying the word gammon.

Isn’t this another thing that was floated in the ‘May’ days now being pulled out the bin and recycled like the original ‘Oven ready’ deal.

Yep, Express Lanes.

And love the quote zippy, in fact love it enough to repeat it:

“nonsense, anyone can be a gammon if they stop thinking long enough” 🙂

Interesting seeing the list of the 22 who voted against the protocol.

Voted against:

https://www.newsletter.co.uk/news/politics/windsor-framework-full-list-of-the-29-mps-who-voted-against-the-implementation-of-stormont-brake-in-todays-house-of-commons-vote-4075436

48 Tory didn’t vote, some will be partnered with the opposition and some will have abstained.