With ebikes costing so much, any locking of them anywhere it falls upon having a very strong lock to keep them safe.
Not talking about locking them overnight down some dark back alley in Ruchazie, but places like a busy city center, lots of people about, during the day, or nipping into a cafe out of sight of the bike park area,or shopping for half an hour in the local Asda, with the bike locked up outside, and as im getting an ebike, and likely to be in such situations, what could be considered best ?. Or at least secure enough for all these situations in the time im away.
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I’m under no illusion, and any lock can be defeated by a determined individual with the right tools, such as a battery angle grinder, nut splitter or even giant bolt croppers, but all of that is highly visible, loud and very noticeable.
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I’ve been looking at a company called Solid Secure, which tests to destruction all kinds of locks, be it bicycle, motorcycle ground anchor or padlock and they have 4 ratings. Bronze,silver,gold and diamond.
I’ve looked at a number from DIB motorcycle locks, to kryptonite to abus all of which are expensive and heavy, but one with the highest diamond rating is one surprisingly be Halfords – Their Advanced 23cm D-Lock – Key priced at about half the price of the likes of abus or dib(did you know Dib is named after a cat ?)
Obviously you wouldnt want to scrimp on quality with ebikes costing as they do, and would want the best, and i was thinking dib, in conjunction with a kryptonite double looped wire, to help secure round wheels etc or maybe the kryptonite evolution, though this is only the gold standard, and the halfords has the higher rating.
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So has anyone got the halfords one can rate it ?. Or any other they feel is good and safe for securing their pride and joy while away from it. I know a number of you commute and have nice bikes to do so on, and leave them locked up while in work.

In 2021 Id expect the test company to acknowledge the existence of the master key…..

https://media.screwfix.com/is/image//ae235?src=ae235/997FV_P&$prodImageMedium$

With one of those there is no lock on earth capable enough.
It’s a reasonably safe temp lock im after, the main thing is being insured.

I don’t leave my ebike out of my sight for more than a few minutes and I tend to use a Hiplock chain (not very secure but it’s still a big bolt cutter or angle grinder job) plus a motorbike disc lock/alarm. If I were leaving it for half an hour outside Asda I’d want a beast of a lock (like a 13 or 16mm Pragmasis chain) and some kind of techy device to alert my phone if it was being messed with.

Sold Secure is like thatcham and other lock “testers”, basically a confidence trick/industry boys club. They don’t test locks in true world conditions and it’s not by mistake- they don’t want to test locks with the attacks criminals really use to break quality locks and then have to give practically everything bad grades, they want to test with a range of variously ineffectual attacks so that you can grade a crap lock “silver” and the sellers can charge more for it, or a slightly less crap lock “gold” and they can charge more again and sell you a £150 lock that any competent thief will break faster than you can find your keys. The only value really is insurance.

(I saw a nice analogy- it’s like discovering that 90% of houses are broken into using a brick through a window, and then testing your high security door locks by throwing bricks at them. Door resisted 3 hours of bricking, which is the attack thieves use most, so we rate it Brick Secure Gold. Oh a lockpick opened it in 20 seconds? Ah but most thieves use bricks)

Also, bear in mind that you’re only ever as secure as whatever you’re locked to. You’ll rarely find anything that’s as solid as a midrange d-lock to actually lock your bike to.

Well D locks were the option i was opting for. Something like new york types. But they have to be tested somehow, and I am a fan of the lock picking lawyer, who has recommended a number.
Sure, all can be broken, but what im looking for is not something thats been tested by placing it in a vice and had a series of professional tools thrown at it, Angle grinders will cut anything, I know because ive got one and use it to as said, cut anything. But im going to be using it in for example the center of Glasgow, in the mid afternoon in in popular areas. And ive yet to either hear or come across reports of thieves using angle grinders int hat type of setting. Or outside morrisons or asda, its just not the place its likely to happen.
Locks can be picked, but does that really happen in these high traffic areas, or is it likely stolen from a shed or some easily cut lock in some quiet close in the dead of night, in fact the railing on stair in any glasgow close are easily broken without much force.
What im asking for is a big, known to resist croppers in theres busy areas. Im not intending too be locking my new bike somewhere i havent locked my cove, which with the big forks and all hope gold is a very stand out bike amongst the rest of the bikes locked up.

I would say that locks with 14mm hardened or cobalt shackles are probably more likely to resist some chance thief, rather than a career criminal attempting to cut or grind it off in the middle of the city. This isnt London.

It is very easy to state no lock is 100% secure, but circumstances of how that lock is removed goes more to do with how strong the lock is, and the circumstances of where it is locked and for how long.
I was hoping for some more real work personal preferences, given many here own expensive bikes.

I think you’re being a bit cynical as to who solid secure are and what they do and your analogy isnt a real world analogy in that they test locks, not glass windows, and it falls flat when its at the top of a high rise building with no accessible windows. How they test the locks i dont know, but someone has to and i think saying its just a big con is a bit too far.

Sold secure is a load of pish mate.

Well I found this.
https://www.soldsecure.com/wp-content/uploads/2020/Sold-Secure-2020-Catalogue.pdf
I doubt your average thief has that range of kit theyre testing locks with at their disposal.

But what youre effectively saying is we should never lock a bike outside. No lock is good enough, and because of that rational its utterly pointless
I take it you dont have a lock.

I need something, I cannot accept that according to two of you, i shouldnt have a bike lock because its pointless. Sounds too defeatist and cynical for me.

On this note this means nothing tested can be relied upon. No bike frame, no fork, no brake, no nothing, because somewhere sometime it can break.

I used to work for an organisation which had the contract with the local council to remove abandoned bikes or bikes which had been locked causing an obstruction.

There was no lock that took more than 30 seconds to remove. We used bolt croppers and battery angle grinders in the city centre, during the day and no one batted an eyelid. We had authorisation but were never challenged.

Just get a big chunky d lock, and if possible take the battery with you.

Rechargeable angle grinders are pretty small, cheap, fast at cutting locks and not that noisy. Carry a clipboard and wear a high vis jacket when using it in any town centre and I doubt anyone would stop you.

A chain is much harder to angle grind than a D-lock because it flaps about. An alarm will attract attention and reduce the chance of the thief persevering, especially if it’s a second lock that will need removing before the bike can be pedalled away.

I’ve never been to Glasgow but I’ve never got the impression that it’s a low crime area?

Tbh I’m not sure Glasgow is in the same league as certain English cities for bike crime, but I still wouldn’t leave 5k of bike out of sight, just my thoughts.

Seen a fully blinged yeti, 9k worth, on top of a car outside decathlon Glasgow a few weeks back. Given that you can take your bike round that shop, utter madness.

This is the kind of chain I mean:

https://securityforbikes.com/proddetail.php?prod=P13-x.x-SS50CS

Bear in mind that your fork can be removed by undoing two bolts and snipping one hose so that lock alone isn’t enough. And your dropper with one bolt and one cable to snip.

Also, you can’t lock a chain like that to typical bike racks without defeating the security level – they’ll just cut the rack. Needs to go around something big like a large tree or lamppost.

boriselbrus

Understood, but were you wearing hi vis and with a liveried van next to you. Yup i know anyone can wear a high vis, and I take on board what youre saying, but i feel were i am in Glasgow such actions would immediately draw attention. ” Just get a big chunky d lock, and if possible take the battery with you. ”
This is actually the plan. I might even get the sewing machine out and make a specific over the shoulder carry bag for the battery itself.

Nobeerinthefridge

I dont really have a choice but I’ll take as m,any precautions as i can, big ABUS Bordo 6500 Granit X-Plus lock , the krypton cable and even a 2nd gold standard halfords D lock if its a case of visiting M&S in the city center. But again this isnt the type of thing that happens in Glasgow city mid afternoon, if anything its people just popping in for 60 seconds and leaving it unlocked outside. Other than that I can choose a coffee & bun emporium with somewhere to lock within my view.
With the cove i do get a bit squirrely in the city with it locked up and did at the beginning mosey on back, staying out of sight to see if anyone started hanging about the racks looking dodgy bt again its the opportunist looking for the easy swipe rather than the serious thieves, who seem to operate in the small hours in peoples sheds. I have an entire bedroom dedicated to bikes, and there they all live.

chiefgrooveguru

Again its what can happen theoretically opposed to what can happen based on the above criteria. Personally I’ve never heard of forks getting stolen in Glasgow and i know pretty much everyone from the bike shops to the charitable organizations. The kryptonite cable can go through the saddle rails quite easily, and if it doesnt on this, ill just buy one that does. I am considering swapping the bolt for a security bolt that needs a specialist bit that is highly unlikely anyone up to stealing such would have in their possession, i mean its not something that you come across in any bike so no thief would have such, and fixed in place due tot he nature of a dropper, you never need to shift it unless youre home in the workshop
” Also, you can’t lock a chain like that to typical bike racks without defeating the security level ”
The racks are fine. Theyre pretty robust,a dn to cut through it would require 2 cuts, it would probably be quicker and draw less attention than trying to cut a single lock. But theres a fair few cameras in Glasgow, and its the Glaswegian mindset to get involved in someone elses business if you think its out of place 😆 there is a shed load of cyclists in Glasgow and oone would take notice of someone trying to cut off a lock. We;re a big bike city these days, literally hundreds on the go a day.

I should be ok, and I’ll take the most robust precautions i can.

If you look at the threads of stolen bikes on here. few have been stolen while heavily locked up on a rack and the majority apear to have been taken in the dead of night from sheds or while the owner is at work, or the cases of rural shops closed over the weekend where none of the bikes were locked to anything.

To reinforce what others are saying about angle grinders and locks:

Seriously, 20 seconds and they’ll be gone. In the center of Glasgow I’d give it about a week before you come back to find the reminants of your £150 lock.

There’s no way I’d lock and walk away from any of my even half decent bikes. The only sort of bike I’d ride and lock in town would be something that’s unlikely to draw any attention. We’re talking high-end Apollo, or maybe a cheapie Giant, and even then I’d make sure it looked like total sh*te.

I use an Almax motorbike chain with my eBike, wrapped round solid steel bullbars off the chassis rails of my van.

Obviously no good for portability!

Just get whatever solid secure one that meets your insurance company requirements.

You’re right, it’ll probably never get pinched in town with s good d lock on. If it does, insurance. It’s impossible to be totally secure and portable

I know a few on here, and that video think an angle grinder is quick and easy, but reality is that if you use a fahgettaboudit chain at 14mm thick it’ll take a bit longer to get through, that video looks like they’re going through a simple security lock, as it’s one cut, you have to cut something like a 14mm link which will require two cuts and you’ll be looking at a good couple of minutes.

Best bet is to minimise leaving the bike locked up anywhere, but if you must, the fahgettaboudit 1415 is a good start, although slightly heavy to just carry about!

To give a size perspective of two of the ones i use in the house, the fahgettaboudit is the smaller one!

rockandrollmark

Mark, I have an angle grinder and im a furniture maker so powertools are my thing. I know, understand and the rest. I know the machines 4″.4 1/2″ and 9″, Plus disc selection.
The Cove is about 2 grand and very visual. Theres lots of high end road bikes. Really I think you’re being a bit romantic in the dealings of the criminal fraternity, Again, this isnt London, Glasgow, especially the city is a small place.
Plus we’re already seeing Ebikes locked up while the owners off about. I honestly haven’t ever sen a problem, and even the police figures put theft of bikes down to opportunists or as ive reiterated 1/2 a dozen times, from peoples sheds and lock up the dead of night. I would say a bike is safer locked up with proper locks in the city, than stored in someones shed unattended for 8 or 10 hours, or all day when theyre at work or doing other things.

Can’t say how many threads on bike forums ive seen saying my 10K worth of standard bikes got nicked off OUT THE SHED.
So the safest place, this mans, that mans shed IN THEIR GARDEN, and the bikes got stolen, but whats the anatomy of the theft. Left for several hours unattended quiet, isolated, nobody about. So much for a super safe place.
So therefore no bike is safe, no place is safe, so what are you all doing buying expensive bikes 😆 Obviously you’re taking more of a chance than I am and sticking the proverbial head in the sand with it won’t be me.yet the statistic show you’re pride and joy isnt safe in your own garden or locked shed. but the truth is if by your own point, nothing is safe then nothing is safe. Why have a car then, or buy the wife expensive jewellery,if you’re going to live life with this or that might happen thats just a mind fk.
I’ve had a bike nicked. I was riding it at the time.

dyna-ti
Free Member

I think you’re being a bit cynical as to who solid secure are and what they do and your analogy isnt a real world analogy in that they test locks, not glass windows, and it falls flat when its at the top of a high rise building with no accessible windows. How they test the locks i dont know, but someone has to and i think saying its just a big con is a bit too far.

I’m really not being cynical- they were quite open when I spoke to them that their tests use only weaker attacks, and the justification was that “that’s what thieves use most of the time”. So literally they were testing heavy duty locks with the tools that thieves use on tesco locks and cables, because “that’s what thieves use most of the time”, rather than using the attacks that would actually break a proper lock because those are “rare”. But they’re only rare because proper locks are rare too, and most bikes are locked with terrible locks.

(that’s why the analogy works. Not all bike thefts are the same, just as not all house break-ins are the same, but testing a high security protection with the attacks that get past low security protection is worthless. Imagine testing a tank with a knife because hardly anyone gets killed by anti-tank weapons. It’s absolutely meaningless if your “sold secure gold” lock can resist a hacksaw or a sledgehammer or a crowbar, or a can of pipe freezer, or a pen, because those only work on shit locks. If you want to test an Asgard shed, do you do it with the same little pry bar that can dismantle a wooden one? Ah but it’s a shed and most sheds are broken into that way.

You can pass their highest “diamond” test with a lightweight 12mm chain that can be broken with boltcutters faster than you can find your keys. it used to be a scandal that those could even get Gold, giving people a false sense of security and leading people to spend £150+ on weak locks- then they introduced a higher grading and made it even worse. The number of bikes that have been lost precisely because some poor bugger thought they were buying a top end lock…

They’re not a consumer organisation, they’re an industry organisation that exists to take money from manufacturers and give them an award, grading locks in a way that the industry likes. They were still grading round-key locks Gold even after the pen defeat was public.

To judge how good “diamond” is as a standard, just look at Pragmasis- their 13mm chain is manually boltcropperable by their own tests, but passes “diamond”. Their 16mm is the lightest chain they offer that can’t be boltcroppered, and also gets diamond. The 19mm also gets diamond. I use the 16mm, it’s a great chain and pretty much exactly what a Gold lock should be. The 13mm should be silver at most, arguably bronze. Diamond, ffs.

Grim but a 2k bike is an easy 40 quid to a bike thief, the odds are stacked against you before you start, a couple of heavy locks is off putting to the opportunist but advertising a diamond to the clued up specialist bike thief, they might target it for the challenge, do they do this in Glasgow?

I’d go for a few locks, more cuts, fk that I’ll take an easier one sort of approach, a bog standard padlock through the chain ring is cheap and easy and one more annoying thing to remove.

a bog standard padlock through the chain ring is cheap and easy and one more annoying thing to remove.

That sounds like a very good simple and effective idea. And you can get some belters of padlocks for less than the cost of a big D or chain lock.
Still though this isnt the norm, and 99% of the time, like the rest of my bikes, it stays with me wherever i go. Just those once a fortnight shopping runs if I fancy a nice steak from M&S where i have to shop inside.

Their 16mm is the lightest chain they offer that can’t be boltcroppered, and also gets diamond. The 19mm also gets diamond. I use the 16mm

I’d always opt for the thicker bar. No point scrimping at this level.
i think though theres other criteria for the diamond rating. Cant be easily picked, bump resistant,or of seriously hardened steel like tool steel type of thing

M&S steak? More money than sense, lidl fillet steak for the win. 😁

What does your insurer require? Get that, and take a quick photo to show you’re using it when you park up.

Rather than a padlock, an alarmed disc lock (as used for motorbikes) means noise is it’s moved as well as another awkward thing to defeat.

For the shift to active travel to succeed, society has to crack this security conundrum as ebikes play a significant part in it.
Cars are much harder to steal than they were in the 80s. It’s time for bike manufacturers to step up and solve the problem. Ebike electronic immobilisers would be a good starting point.

You can still pedal an ebike with no motor though, not quite the same as pushing a 5 series out a drive.

If I wanted an ebike to lock up outside a shop I’d probably get a conversion kit and fit it to a cr@p looking hybrid or something and remove the battery so it just looks as much as possible like a normal bike.

Then lock it with a big chain and/or d-lock.

OR get a folding ebike like a Brompton and take it in the shop.

There’s an obvious solution that I don’t think has been mentioned yet*… Buy a cheaper (less desirable) bike to go into town on.

Still use a decent meaty lock, but the combination of a low value bike and slightly higher challenge to get through a lock means the “average” bike thief will move onto the next candidate…

*Edit: Horatio beat me by 60 seconds…

And you can easily pick up an ebike and chuck it in the back of a van – whilst even a 50cc scooter is almost impossible to lift single-handedly.

But yes, I think ebikes/scooters are the key to future urban transport but we have to massively reduce theft.

Understood, but were you wearing hi vis and with a liveried van next to you. Yup i know anyone can wear a high vis, and I take on board what youre saying, but i feel were i am in Glasgow such actions would immediately draw attention. ” Just get a big chunky d lock, and if possible take the battery with you. ”

Nope. Black hoodies usually and no van as it was pedestrianised.

No one gave a damn.

Judging by how negative much of the general public seems to be towards cyclists, I wouldn’t be be surprised if they’re inwardly applauding any bike thieves for “teaching those ****ing cyclists a lesson”. Especially if it’s an expensive bike “look at that **** spending thousands on a bike, should have bought a car, then it wouldn’t get nicked”…

but i feel were i am in Glasgow such actions would immediately draw attention

Oh they will, if the observer cares. Otherwise the bike is fair game. I huckled a jakey on Sauchiehall Street, right on the corner of Cambridge Street who burst a cable lock by just running the bike back and forward several times. This was the middle of the day with plenty folk around and not one person bothered with him until I got involved and even then it was after the fact. Turned out the bams that came over to see what my problem was were plain clothes police who hadnt noticed.

As you say though a decent lock is better than nothing.

If I wanted an ebike to lock up outside a shop I’d probably get a conversion kit and fit it to a cr@p looking hybrid or something and remove the battery so it just looks as much as possible like a normal bike.

There’s an obvious solution that I don’t think has been mentioned yet*… Buy a cheaper (less desirable) bike to go into town on.

Awaiting the “what ebike to use so I don’t have to use the bike I actually bought to fulfil a purpose” thread.

I take it you guys only take Saracen Havocs to trail centres then? Or are you the kind of person that has faith in a rebadged laptop lock or glorified zip tie when popping into a cafe?

Not an expert but:

Check with your insurance company regarding locks. They’re the ones that’ll be paying out, after all. most will have a minimum spec- it might be some cock and bull ‘rating’, but you need to play the game by their rules.

If you’ve got a removable head unit/display that you can register with the manufacturer, register it to you and your bike and always take it away (means that as soon as someone tries to buy a ‘replacement head unit’, the manufacturer will block the sale, and you *might* get your bike back.

Take the battery with you. I seem to remember that registering the bike also locks the battery to that particular bike (certainly does for mine)- other batteries simply won’t work.

If nervous, it’s time to break out the pub bike.

Stuff gets nicked- nice stuff doubly so.

I take it you guys only take Saracen Havocs to trail centres then? Or are you the kind of person that has faith in a rebadged laptop lock or glorified zip tie when popping into a cafe?

Generally if I ride involves a cafe I’m with someone else, and/or the cafe/pub will be one chosen with security in mind – eg outside table next to bikes unlocked, visible through the window + cable lock, etc

Trail centres, I’ve got a big motorbike lock in the car, I will go and get that for a proper post ride stop. BPW I’ll take it up at the beginning of the day and leave it wrapped round the fence.

Only luck prevented me from having a new bike vanish from CyB years ago, I’ve been paranoid ever since.

Why do you believe your motorbike lock is any more secure than the ones we’re discussing here?

No better or worse than a bike one, but its not the sort of thing you carry with you on a ride, even a pop to the shops type one, if it was marketed as a bike lock it would definitely be a garage/shed lock only.

I only use the phrase as a shorthand for bigass lock with hardened steel chain and padlock the size of a large fist, in my reply about “rebadged laptop lock or glorified zip tie when popping into a cafe?”

I only use the phrase as a shorthand for bigass lock with hardened steel chain and padlock the size of a large fist, in my reply about “rebadged laptop lock or glorified zip tie when popping into a cafe?”

You hadn’t even posted before I wrote that so why did you think I was addressing you?

I had a SoldSecure Gold rated cable lock that got cut through outside of my offices a few years back. It at least meant that the insurance company were very sympathetic (and approved a replacement two days later, which I ended up not needing because I found my bike being sold by the brother of the thief 80 miles away in Sheffield…)

Couple of other points to note…

If the bike is locked with a very secure lock then the thieves just cut through the frame. You know its 2 grands worth but the thief will be more interested in the parts anyway. Your bike is identifiable. Your motor, wheels, brakes fork, shock etc much less so and very valuable.

If theives want to look less conspicuous, they will work as a pair. One dressed in bike clothes with a helmet, the other with the grinder. Anyone challenges them, the “bike” guy just says it’s his bike, he lost the key to the lock and his mate is cutting the lock off so he can get home.

Most padlocks can be broken with a couple of spanners – plenty of videos on the Internet.

Volt bikes need a keyfob transponder to get them to work. The bikes are a bit basic, but at least they have some electronic security. Other manufacturers take note.

I think a short trip and not left long outside a shop, cafe or whatever is opportunist thief territory, different approach to leaving all day at work etc, for the cafe opportunist I’d go with a light lock and an allen key, only takes a few seconds to loosen the stem screws and swing the handlebars round to being visibly unridable, can’t just grab it and go.

Leaving a bike for a longer period, in a place where bikes are left, without cctv right on it is a no for me, this is organised pre planned bike thief territory, the very place they go shopping, years and years ago, there was a group in the Glasgow area that went round in a transit van, they just went round all the likely places and had everything in the van needed, I think they were nabbed at Bishopbriggs sports center, they were patrolling the canals etc, they sold the bikes out of the van like a travelling bike shop, and this was back before bikes were really that expensive, I see no way of avoiding the likes of that.

I do like the idea of an exploding bike though, or secrete a tracker chip in the frame and phone 10 local cyclists to go pick it up.