dyna-ti
Free Member

i think though theres other criteria for the diamond rating. Cant be easily picked, bump resistant,or of seriously hardened steel like tool steel type of thing

Again missing the point- the “diamond” rating has been applied to lightweight easy-to-break locks. Yes it has requirements for lockpicking, bumping, snapping etc but it’s all bollocks if you give the higher-than-high rating to weak chains.

Sold Secure is like competing in the high jump, but with the pole always 2 feet up. Everyone have a diamond medal…

Aye,but i do get it, hence the post i put about it having different criteria
But i agree that there seemed to be a bit of disparity concerning that rating 😕 The lock maker rates diamond, but sold secure puts the same at gold, as do all the well known very strong locks, they dont seem to label their locks that way, and gold seems at least at a glance to be the highest rated. It would be the gold rated I’d be opting for.

lidl fillet steak for the win.

I once tried to use that as shoe leather.
But I couldnt get the nails through it.

I think the solution is a butchers that lets you take your bike into the shop, everyone’s a winner.

“ I think the solution is a butchers that lets you take your bike into the shop”

This may be tongue in cheek (other cold meats are allowed) but I’ve never worried about locking my Levo to itself simply leaning against the window of my butchers – good luck running off with it before I batter you with a large joint and then consume the weapon…

I stopped for a coffee in respectable Ayr, parked my scabby old stumpy against the barrier thing with me on the other side, looked like it was just left unattended perhaps with me just being a customer, within minutes I had a small group of junkies trying very badly to look inconspicuous as they discussed the pros and cons of knicking my bike within earshot, when I made it obvious it was mine the moved on but from what I could gather this was going to be a team effort.

Clubbing one of those guys with a Sunday roast is a jackpot day for these guys, the will have your dinner too, and one will probably come back for your shoes.

dyna-ti
Free Member

gold seems at least at a glance to be the highest rated. It would be the gold rated I’d be opting for.

Diamond is the highest standard, for what little it’s worth.

respectable Ayr

Nope, lost me.

Aye, if it was the butcher at the bottom o the toon, you were lucky to escape.

Awaiting the “what ebike to use so I don’t have to use the bike I actually bought to fulfil a purpose” thread.

I take it you guys only take Saracen Havocs to trail centres then? Or are you the kind of person that has faith in a rebadged laptop lock or glorified zip tie when popping into a cafe?

I think you’re missing my point the thing that attracts thieves to your expensive Ebike is the fact that it is an expensive, portable object in a vulnerable setting… That problem is quite easily solved by spending a £100 on an old nag to risk on errands instead…

My pub/shops bike is probably worth less than half the locks you’re considering, and it get locked up with an ancient kryptonite (that is probably quite easy to defeat but still looks the part).
It’s fixed, has a crate on the bars for shopping and deliberately looks shite, it’s reassuring when someone visibly scoffs at it. Anyone who steals it must really be desperate. I would miss it but my loss would be minor compared to several grands worth of Ebike.

Did you actually buy the fancy eeeb just for popping to the shops?

Essentially all I’m saying is (in line with established STW policy) you need N+1.

Did you actually buy the fancy eeeb just for popping to the shops?

I bought it because I like well specced bikes, and when youre spending this much money I like to know its on decent kit. You can spend the same amount on some brands and get suntour and lots of unbranded Chinese tat.
what I do with it is my own affair.
Truth is im buying ebike because my health is failing. Ive some major medical conditions but i cant drive, and as such im forced to make hard decisions as to how i’ll get about, go riding for enjoyment or yes, even get my shopping.
Take another thread about a member buying a very fast and sporty Volvo. Are the replies berating him because he isn’t taking it onto a race track, or to Germany to run on the nurburgring. No course not. People respect when it comes to cars that people have nice things and can use those nice things as they wish. And there are car thieves about that specifically target high spec cars and its a hell of a lot easier to break into and steal than trying to cut through a 16mm hardened steel bar in a high traffic public area in the middle of the day. Not to say it wont happen, but my experience of the expensive bike i have being locked in the same areas, and only using a lock that i know isnt a high end lock says its unlikely, and the fact that the majority of high end bikes are pinched from peoples garden sheds while theyre sleeping or at work doesnt seem to enter the equation.

I need to lock my expensive bike up in a busy city center occasionally that isnt London or San Fransisco, which is also attracting commentary about why.
Were this a Riese and Muller cargo or Tern cargo bike costing 2 or 3 grand more and supposed to be used to go shopping on and left locked up , how is there now a difference. Yeah there are bike thieves about, yes they break into houses and cars, and sheds but cant live our lives worrying about what might happen, you take the best precautions you can.
I ask about a bike lock and what people think is the best and its all replies about why why why.
Thankfully there have also been plenty of replies as to what members consider to be a good strong lock. I take their advice and choose one from these choices taking all factors of strength, weight and rating into account. And on the subject of rating, some feel it necessary to berate that. Calling it some great big con. I can see they arent master locksmiths, so where is their info coming from 😕 sod knows.Certainly the police,several universities, the home office several bike insurance companies and many many bike experts both in industry and online rate this companies testing as amongst the best. Fine, people want to live their life in a cynical cloud. I respect them for their opinion, but when it becomes a bit far fetched im compelled to ask why.

Not getting on to you or anyone, but lets at least be logical.

FFS… I’m not a “master locksmith” but you don’t need to be, to cut a chain with a boltcutter and realise how quickly a thief can make off with a badly secured bike with a gold or diamond chain on it. You realise that most bike thieves aren’t “master locksmiths” either? And why would they bother when people are still being fooled into buying “high” and “highest” security chains that offer such weak protection.

Or to understand that if a manufacturer makes 3 different weight chains and they all get the highest “diamond” grade even though the lowest security one is boltcroppable and the others aren’t, then the standard’s no good.

Totally correct Mr FFS.
And all that is obvious. But you slagged off the testing company and it is (As you are very well aware) that point im referring to.

“…the fact that the majority of high end bikes are pinched from peoples garden sheds while theyre sleeping or at work doesnt seem to enter the equation”

Is this a fact? I’ve never seen any evidence about it. If it is a fact, isn’t that because most people don’t risk leaving high end bikes locked up in public places because the risk of theft is so high?

It would be a shame for your new expensive bike to be stolen fairly soon because of risky behaviour or poor security.

This page of certificates is quite enlightening – note how “diamond” for bikes is graded far lower for other items:

https://securityforbikes.com/certificates.php

Dyna, with all due respect, you seem to have just recently came across sold secure. They are a joke, no one pays any attention to their ratings, you’d be better off spending your time watching YouTubers who test locks with real world methods.

I think you’re missing my point the thing that attracts thieves to your expensive Ebike is the fact that it is an expensive, portable object in a vulnerable setting… That problem is quite easily solved by spending a £100 on an old nag to risk on errands instead…

*facepalm*

You’re missing my point, I understand what you’re saying perfectly. But why buy a bike for a specific purpose then not use it for that actual purpose? What the hell else should he use a shopper bike for?

Edited because I read on: I was under the assumption dyna had a cargo bike because of his previous topic. Hope that clarifies where I was coming from.

I sometimes stop off for lunch stuff or the likes after a local ride, so having a crappy shopper wouldn’t be good for that, I also lock my bike up in town now and again for stuff like the gym, make sure it’s locked in an area that’s got a lot of motion and cameras, locked up with a 14mm kryptonite chain, I have confidence in it, I know how long and how hard it would be to get through that, if they manage it without getting caught then fair enough, it’s insured

I think we all agree that the sold secure rating is a joke but in most cases it’s what the insurance company stipulates as a requirement for cover. In which case, just buy the cheapest lock that fills their requirements and rest easy knowing that if/when the bike gets nicked the insurance should pay for a new one.

If you actually want to keep the bike as secure as possible then buy something better but if it’s not rated to your insurance company standards then you will still need to fit your cheap SS gold lock as well just to keep them happy.

squirrelking

Nope, lost me

I moved from Glasgow and the estate agent told me it was posh, it is in some ways but they forgot to mention that the town center is like scene out of Bladerunner when the posse runs out of skag.

I moved from Glasgow and the estate agent told me it was posh

Sounds like Ayr.

it is in some ways but they forgot to mention that the town center is like scene out of Bladerunner when the posse runs out of skag.

Definitely sounds like Ayr. Is the Forum site still modelling a bing in the middle of it? It’ll soon have listed status…

Definitely sounds like Ayr. Is the Forum site still modelling a bing in the middle of it? It’ll soon have listed status…

A bing in the middle of Ayr??

I think we all agree that the sold secure rating is a joke but in most cases it’s what the insurance company stipulates as a requirement for cover.

As others have said, spot on, it’s the one thing that you really wanna sort out, that your insurance is gonna cover you.

Edited because I read on: I was under the assumption dyna had a cargo bike because of his previous topic. Hope that clarifies where I was coming from.

The point being offered was not about my specific choice of bike but the fact it was an expensive electric bike. I tried to show comparison that all high end E-cargo bikes are expensive, and their primary purpose is to go shopping or be in that type of use on a near daily basis, and in that use they will be locked up outside while the owner is off doing their shopping. Do they get pinched ?, i expect they do, but more likely by the career criminal rather than the opportunist, which im hoping will be the case in the 20 minutes it takes for me to do a small shop.
.
I also on several occasions tried to point out that it is obvious that a cordless angle grinder can cut through any lock, but the point wasnt the worst case scenario but rather an acceptance of it and what is good for the non professions opportunist thief with basic tools hoping to nick a poorly locked bike and not one with the top style of lock. Locks have to be rated and I’ll wager anyone buying one will look for a rating from best to worst. So who rates these locks, and why would they need to be rated if not for the grading of opportunist to professional. I cant know what lock is best if theres no rating on it, so I would go with whichever from some simple research as to who rates the rating company so to speak, and there it appears to be the one company.

Dyna, with all due respect, you seem to have just recently came across sold secure. They are a joke, no one pays any attention to their ratings, you’d be better off spending your time watching YouTubers who test locks with real world methods.

I do.
I’m not relying simply on what one insurance,police,bike company,home office or journalist rated testing company is suggesting, but also looking at other tests being carried out by other cyclists on you tube and the like. Some ,like the lockpicking lawyer go to extreme lengths to test all locks, and if you cant go with at least such or such a recommendation, then there is nothing worth having. The latter tester is proof any lock can be picked, but he is an experienced individual with years of skill and knows intuitively from feel how he is doing deep inside a lock, hardly the type of experience the opportunist junkie has.
.
I even gave an instance of being mugged for my bike, so any lock even if it was unbreakable to superman wouldnt matter if you get knocked off it and that would go for any bike, high end, cheap,electric or whatever. It was an acknowledgement that thieves are about.

I sometimes stop off for lunch stuff or the likes after a local ride, so having a crappy shopper wouldn’t be good for that, I also lock my bike up in town now and again for stuff like the gym, make sure it’s locked in an area that’s got a lot of motion and cameras, locked up with a 14mm kryptonite chain, I have confidence in it, I know how long and how hard it would be to get through that, if they manage it without getting caught then fair enough, it’s insured

Thank you, the type of recommendation i was looking for. The lock you chose is highly rated and will defeat all but the most determined thief with a portable grinder.
Replies keep pointing this issue out, despite multiple acknowledgement of it. “yes yes we understand that, now about a strong lock, what do you recommend” 😆

“…the fact that the majority of high end bikes are pinched from peoples garden sheds while theyre sleeping or at work doesnt seem to enter the equation”

Is this a fact? I’ve never seen any evidence about it. If it is a fact, isn’t that because most people don’t risk leaving high end bikes locked up in public places because the risk of theft is so high?

It would be a shame for your new expensive bike to be stolen fairly soon because of risky behaviour or poor security.

This page of certificates is quite enlightening – note how “diamond” for bikes is graded far lower for other items:

https://securityforbikes.com/certificates.php

To start off with I choose to ask google what the most common way a bicycle is stolen, and although there are many different ways, many of the police forces list stolen from sheds as the No1 item chosen by thieves, its not too difficult to suggest or reason that that is their No1 interest in stealing a bike, and given its harder than breaking into a home than a shed, shed appear to be easy targets, yet many here use them, and theres a number of threads pertaining o ‘ shed safety. Seems odd doesnt it given sheds are the No1 choice for bike thieves for people to insist on putting the damn things in there 😆
Heres an example from this very site.

Bikes stolen, what sites to watch?

and in fact googling stolen bikes and sTW brings up a host of results dating back to over a decade.
.
” note how “diamond” for bikes is graded far lower for other items ”
I think we’ve covered that one. ion that there are different tests. you’ll need to be more specific and say how the tests differ and why motorcycle is rated higher than caravan. I dont know, but there will be some formula or reason dont you think. Know that reason we have the answer, so i cannot speculate otherwise as to what that may or may not be.

” It would be a shame for your new expensive bike to be stolen fairly soon because of risky behaviour or poor security.”
Yeah, and it certainly doesnt sound like youre hoping that happens 😉 😛 😆 Just kidding.
You got a car ? cars get stolen. why did you buy a car if cars get stolen. Again wheres the sanity in that.
Got a wife with expensive jewellery in the house, probably sitting on a dresser or in a drawer. Again it is easy to ask why, when we know homes get broken into and thieves love such expensive goods. So why did you buy them when you know thieves are about. Its the same question and the same answer isnt it.

Anyway. Strong lock and have insurance and follow that insurance companies recommendation rating, however pants that recommendation is. Thumbs up, got it 😀

dyna-ti
Free Member

And all that is obvious. But you slagged off the testing company and it is (As you are very well aware) that point im referring to.

If those things are obvious then you understand why I’m slagging off the testing company.

Nope, I still think your comments are unwarranted.
single track magazine think SS is acceptable. No added demeaning of them.

The point being offered was not about my specific choice of bike but the fact it was an expensive electric bike. I tried to show comparison that all high end E-cargo bikes are expensive, and their primary purpose is to go shopping or be in that type of use on a near daily basis, and in that use they will be locked up outside while the owner is off doing their shopping.

I think there were 3 conversations happening at once here. I agree with you FWIW, nobody bat’s an eye at a R&M or Tern for shopping but for some reason your case is different. Eh?

A bing in the middle of Ayr??

Aye, the remnants of the forum and woolies at the bottom of the high street. I could probably see my house from the top.

Two final things in response to the king of posting questions so he can ignore all the responses:

1. If I bought an expensive cargo ebike I’d carry a big lock and alarm with it. The locks I put links up to are not that quick/easy to cut with an angle grinder and can’t be cut with bolt croppers.

2. IMO an equally expensive eMTB is a more appealing target for thieves because it’s covered in more widely used and expensive components (eg fancy fork) and because I suspect there are more people wanting to buy a stolen fun/cool toy than a stolen v practical boring utility vehicle.

I’m not ignoring suggestions, just maybe disagree with certain points being forwarded.

And you’ll be happy to know It is your suggestion i immediately latched onto as a sensible point being well made. Namely about opting for chain over D lock, in that a chain is kind of wobbly and harder to cut without it flopping all over the place, coupled with being versatile in that it can wind over and through larger diameter racks, or posts and you can secure a wheel and frame at the same time. Theres not always racks where you need to go, and things like lamposts are easier to come by so to speak.
Personally I’ve always been a cable fan, given in the decades of locking bikes up found D locks can be difficult to find something to lock on to.
But I shall also have a D lock, tested to gold standard obviously 😉 to lock back wheel to frame, meaning if for some reason the lock locking the bike to whatever fails, or ‘whatever’, it cannot be easily wheeled away, and if cut its something that extends the time it takes to cut.

So 2 locks and battery removal will be the order of the day. Unfortunately I cant afford on my meager income a team of mercenary snipers to overwatch it 🙁

Unfortunately I cant afford on my meager income a team of mercenary snipers to overwatch it 🙁

Got any mini levers in your stash? Can’t guarantee it won’t be more of a Lock Stock affair though, and I don’t mean the Bren gun.

dyna-ti
Free Member

a chain is kind of wobbly and harder to cut without it flopping all over the place

Nah. Not with any of the tools that a thief will actually use.

What ? 😕 Laser beams or maybe the jaws of life hydraulic cutters ?

😆
Perhaps they’ll be part of a small group that drives about picking just that precise moment to attack a stand of locked cycles in their drive about Glasgow city center.

You don’t think they’ve got undercover spotters out do you 😯 Hiding in every bush, 2 way radios at the ready, just waiting for someone to add their electric bike to a stand of non electric bikes and council hire-a- bikes 😯

😆

Good lord, 2 pages of bickering about locks. 🤣

For me it is simple.

– All locks can get defeated
– Expensive bikes / ebikes are desirable to thiefs
– The public at large doesn’t give a toss and won’t intervene a bike theft

My answer would be not to leave a bike anywhere but, this is not practical for the OP.
Second option is to get a reasonable lock and a crap bike to go into town on.
Third option is to accept the points above, forget studying locks so deeply and get one that the insurance company specifically recommends, then accept that it will likely be stolen at some point but at least the insurance is sorted.
Forth option (which would be my 1st in the OPs position) is pre planned home delivery and just use bikes for fun.

My colleagues ebike (it’s a ghastly commuter thing) has a built in alarm that makes a racket & notifies his phone if it gets wobbled
Can you get an alarmed lock?

Yeah I wondered about alarmed locks, but im worried in a rack situation where you get someone locking their bike too it will set it off and deafen everyone, have me running out only to find nothing wrong. Thats bound to lead to paranoia 😆 not good for the mental health.

Forth option (which would be my 1st in the OPs position) is pre planned home delivery and just use bikes for fun.

Sounds a fair option. I can do a larger shop thats not to far and not any major hills, the one i do currently on the cove, with rack and just now got a pair of as new agu panniers(40 quid,bloody bargain) thats what I normally do and will continue doing for 80% of the time, its just the very occasional jaunt elsewhere for a change. If I was to put that into a time scale, it would be like once every 2 or likely 3 months.
The bikes intended use is to get about,in style and enjoy having a nice bike of the type i appreciate. To go further afield without getting utterly knacked as i am currently. Nice to cycle out to the outlying rural areas, but return trip is a nightmare and more of a slog than a pleasantish return home. The return of all these further afield journeys for me is always difficult, especially so as time has went on(not 30 any more 🙁 ) and its always always up hill and into the wind.
So its really to get me back into the cycling thats dropped off as time has went, less out for the sheer pleasure of it, into just a slog to get shopping, visit family, but staying very much close to home for the majority of the time. In the last 5 years I’ve maybe gone further afield about 1/2 a dozen times, and thats affected core strengths, and has made me less able to even do other things someone of my age should be well capable of.
So the ebike makes the body work less, but still promotes core strength i lost when i did my back in, and from sitting too long doing nothing, to get the legs working, the blood pumping, and help put a bit of muscle back there, which im sure will improve my non ebike cycling.
While out I may, likely will, have to stop, visit a shop to buy some juice, grab some chocolate, have a coffee, or even grab a burger so was looking for a lock that would suffice in those type of situation, as the main, with as said that very occasional jaunt to the likes of m&s in the city center.
Instead of oh this lock is good or that lock is good I got the doom mongers 😆 😆 thankfully there were enough informative replies for me to be able to reason a good choice for what I want. The bickering is down to I wont back off a troll fight 😆 but hey ho, times are rough and some folk need to get their entertainment where they can find it.
So I think we’ve got a fair choice now to be able to make an informed decision.