JoeBristol

The DH trails aren’t bad – there’s enough challenge but also flow on them – but the off piste is far more varied and I find more fun there I think. The uplift means you miss out on all the other cool stuff that’s around.
If I’m paying for uplift I’m going to BMCC or BPW in the South Wales sort of area. Plus I don’t find the fireroad up the middle at FOD too bad – other thrown the steep bit near the start.

Yep but I guess the point is I can pedal from home or worst case drive to SH in 20 mins so its little to no expense so if I drive and pay for fuel to FoD I just want to get as many runs for the overall cost as possible and then explore after the uplift stops (well when I can find people).

If I lived 20 mins from FoD I’d be all over the Enduro loops…

Scienceofficer

That was my thought process that resulted in the Aether 9c. Perhaps its old skool dogma to think that a bigger travel bike will be more dull, or is it that certain bikes have managed to ascend past the long travel sled feeling?

I’m certainly long in the tooth enough to have the impression that big bikes are dull unless you’re on big terrain.

The Ripmo has proved me wrong though.

It manages to be fun and jibby in standard™ trails without feeling like a sled.

I’ve not tried a Ripmo but I guess it would have been more accurate/easier to explain if I’d said F1 ??
To use that analogy say you can rip a F1 round some hairpins at 100mph but not at 40 mph because its just not got the downforce… (obviously these are just figures picked out of the air for the sake of explaining what I mean)

So I guess the point is that EWS bred race bikes are just designed to go FAST as ££££… and become stable at speed and if your sole purpose is time then they are faster so a no brainer.

I guess you can de-tune but then the question is why?

I’m not sure it’s simply down to feeling like a sled… for me it takes away the edginess ??
I’ve seen a few LT eBike reviews where the bloke tests LT down a trail I wouldn’t ride my FS down.. (Thick n Creamy nr Peaslake).. I get he lives local and that’s what he has but I remember going out with a group of similarly senile geriatric riders and I was up for doing the trail that has a small drop at the bottom.. we decided to do something else first and I ended up smashing something on the HT so I pulled the FS out of the van… (nearly lunch)… after going back up I just lost all will to go down as it’s just not edgy at all on the 160/150 (Aeris MK1.5).. you can just plop off and nothing bad happens and that seems to take the whole point away… then a boring ride up a road to get back… whereas it would have felt worth the climb on the HT not because the climb is easier (maybe marginally) but because it feels a bit like you have to actually put input into the bike or have a big crash. Without that it just feels like there is no adrenaline??

Weirdly it also then alters the whole equation of e-Bikes??? It’s not really fun going down but it’s actually fun going up as you can cycle up ??? It’s like the fun gets smoothed out??

@stevextc – if you particularly like the DH trails at FOD then fair enough – but you’re also within touching distance of BPW and Black Mountain Cycle centre and it’s a much bigger hill for uplift type riding. Although both of those are less natural and rooty feeling so if that’s what you’re after then FOD makes sense.

For me Surrey Hills and FOD are similar ish – just maybe FOD has some more difficult stuff and variety. So I’d have thought some big South Wales hills would be more different to what you have near you.

I did an uplift day at FOD just the once and by part way through the day I’d had enough of those trails and decided to go pedalling off to see what else I could find. Hence not uplifting there again since.

Being under-biked is fine, right up until the point that it isn’t.

Being correct-biked is fine, right up until the point that it isn’t.

Under biking is a term for not reading the conditions.

Under biking is a term for not reading the conditions.

Not really. Routes and trails are not all the same, some bits are easy, some bits are harder.. So you can be both over-biked and under-biked in a given trail depending on where you are on it at the time.

If you’re in Aberdeenshire, I’d recommend heading to Monymusk and chatting to Bike Bothy Pitfichie – they’ve got all the Bird bikes to demo which everyone that has one loves them. They also do Pivot.

Ditto Fire Trail in Aboyne – Nukeproof demo range and the Reactor gets rave reviews around here. Rich is a great guy and knows pretty much everything there is to know – he’ll happily spend hours chatting about which bikes work where around the area and give you a coffee, with no sense that he’s trying to sell you something.

“Without that it just feels like there is no adrenaline??”

Interesting! Any more than a minor spike of adrenaline and I just don’t like it, I hate that scary feeling and all the emotions that rush through and my fears of having a life-changing injury. That’s why when it comes to higher consequence stuff my MTBing has stopped progressing, I just don’t enjoy bigger jumps or drops or really steep stuff where going slower as you learn it isn’t an option.

What I love about the downhill stuff when MTBing is making flow happen, especially on trails that are more tech or don’t naturally flow.

That’s why when it comes to higher consequence stuff my MTBing has stopped progressing, I just don’t enjoy bigger jumps or drops or really steep stuff where going slower as you learn it isn’t an option.

What I love about the downhill stuff when MTBing is making flow happen, especially on trails that are more tech or don’t naturally flow.

There’s nothing worse then being on the brakes and still accelerating on really steep shitty stuff – I’m still trying to work my way into feeling more comfortable on that stuff. It’s not so bad if you have a good catch berm to rely on so it doesn’t matter – but when the rest of the trail is also steep it scares the hell out of me!

I love flowy stuff – or stuff that isn’t immediately flowy but you can make flow with the right lines and technique. But I’m riding more and more off piste to hopefully get better at it.

What I love about the downhill stuff when MTBing is making flow happen, especially on trails that are more tech or don’t naturally flow.

Amen.

This can be done on traversy trails too, if they’re sufficiently janky.

Making flow instead of having it given is hugely rewarding for me. Its kinda more important than what bike I’m riding.

@andyg1966

not reading the conditions or having confidence in your own ability

joebristol

if you particularly like the DH trails at FOD then fair enough – but you’re also within touching distance of BPW and Black Mountain Cycle centre and it’s a much bigger hill for uplift type riding. Although both of those are less natural and rooty feeling so if that’s what you’re after then FOD makes sense.

Not really a fan of BPW … I’d rather do Barry’s sidings if in the area but BMCC (now dirt Farm) is loads of fun so we combine that and FoD… and FoD really is just what it is.

For me Surrey Hills and FOD are similar ish – just maybe FOD has some more difficult stuff and variety. So I’d have thought some big South Wales hills would be more different to what you have near you.

I did an uplift day at FOD just the once and by part way through the day I’d had enough of those trails and decided to go pedalling off to see what else I could find. Hence not uplifting there again since.

Totally get that .. indeed its a bit of like home but with uplift 😉 though not sure you can say FoD has got bigger features. SH has lots of HUGE (Brendog/ODub type) features you just need to know where they are. It’s just most of it isn’t travel/FS dependent – it might save you on a bad landing but it won’t save you if you don’t clear the gap. Ramps tend to be dug out vertically .. last time I bumped into Kerr and ODub (2-3 weeks ago??) ODub was riding some 80’s Focus XC bike with what looked like elastomer forks sending huge gaps..

..anyway.. I guess that’s the thing about FoD for me… all the times I’m pedalling up Redlands for the n’th time (yesterday morning for example)… indeed we stopped because my mate got knackered

chiefgrooveguru

“Without that it just feels like there is no adrenaline??”

Interesting! Any more than a minor spike of adrenaline and I just don’t like it, I hate that scary feeling and all the emotions that rush through and my fears of having a life-changing injury.

For me it’s about turning that off or exerting my trust/confidence I can do it over a fairly irrational fear .. It’s more about building the confidence and doing stuff progressively.

That’s why when it comes to higher consequence stuff my MTBing has stopped progressing, I just don’t enjoy bigger jumps or drops or really steep stuff where going slower as you learn it isn’t an option.

Just askin’ but when it the last time you actually set aside time to learn progressively? (and scientifically)
A bit OT… but maybe this will help you and it’s a bit of a passion for me?
<rant-on>
A ‘for example’ … really steep stuff.
I was out with some less experienced friends a couple of weeks ago and one of them had a problem going down a steep chute… I understood the reason, she was afraid she’d just go faster and faster and there was a bloody big tree and 90 degree turn so I demonstrated on her bike how it’s totally possible to go down at 1mph.. BUT then instead of just me riding her bike down that bit and going on we went somewhere else equally steep but with a lovely smooth rollout… then we went 1/2 way up (a flat bit at the side) and rolled down… easy.. so then we did from the top (nowhere else for her to get on) and she did that.. we did this and pushed up about 10 times before we went back to the original ‘mental horror’… and she just rolled down it in control.

You can do the same for jumps and gaps and drops… though it helps to have someone knows the trails really well. i.e. learning to jump can be VERY progressive.. I’ve started loads of people off using a ‘no pedal/no brakes from a point’ method with the right sort of jump.. First run they get no air at all… repeat.. then go back up a bike length and repeat… etc. etc. just keeping weight neutral and no pop… then back up until they are getting some decent air.. then back DOWN so now they only get air from the pop… (usually that’s a second session – depends on age older people like me take longer)

Again its REALLY important to find the right zero consequence jump that’s rollable… but has a run in where you don’t need to pedal so you can know the speed will be the same each time. It helps to go with someone who is confident they can test what happens from a spot.. then mark it with some greenery and they can hold a phone camera. Obviously it’s quicker if they are good enough to spot what you may be doing wrong but not necessary if you do very small steps and get filmed..

What I love about the downhill stuff when MTBing is making flow happen, especially on trails that are more tech or don’t naturally flow.

My latest craze is not pedalling… and pumping the living daylights out of every berm and compression… I found my cornering improved no end and my temptation to comfort brake reduced.. at the same time I set aside time to practice using a similar technique to above… take a series of turns I’d usually brake and instead roll in from a fixed point and concentrate on making grip. It’s amazing… I’d say I ended up doing almost everything nearly double the speed I would have before.. sometimes you have to brake so I’d set ferns out and just try and move them …
This works really well I found for getting flow out of trails that seem determined to upset it..

OK so Non of this is really very clever… and its just some examples really. The BIG BIG SUPER LIFECHANGING THING… (clickbait type headline) is : (drumroll)

Actually taking time to practice and developing a scientific and progressive way to do so…

Yeah OK, you already know that 😉 I wanted to grab your attention but I bet like most of us (me included until recently) you haven’t actually done it for ages.

SOMETIMES you do have to take a bit of a leap of faith.. but based on being rational.
I’ve dropped into a few big high consequence gaps quite literally shaking before I dropped in but knowing I can actually do it as long as I keep the fear in control. Then after you’ve done it once you realise it was easy all along but its such a massive buzz.

</rant-off>

So I guess that’s the thing being over-biked. It takes away that edge but it also makes you rely psychologically on the bike. So when you say “I just don’t enjoy bigger jumps or drops or really steep stuff” then perhaps a lot of that is you don’t trust yourself because you feel you rely on the bike??

and all the emotions that rush through and my fears of having a life-changing injury

I was doing a gap yesterday I’ve not done before but in my head I knew I COULD do it.. I just thought it might not be very elegant or clean or I might case it a bit.

THEN as I went into the take off my front wheel washed out on some pine cones… I guess what I learned a year or so ago is casing a gap with the front wheel over is never half as bad as messing up a late abortion… (even on a HT) so what went through my head wasn’t “I’m going to die” so much as “I’d better try and at least get the front wheel over and it’ll be fine”…

What actually happened was the back wheel was over the knuckle by a foot… I stopped anyway before the next gap.. (had conversation with mate who said he saw the front wash out and thought I’d try and abort..) then I went back and sent it to flat easily getting 2 bike lengths.. so despite me thinking it was actually touch and go getting a clean landing the reality was there was an absolutely HUGE margin and even screwing up the take off it was easy to clear safely.
On the other hand the gap itself was full of nasty, pointy stuff..

Disclaimer: I was riding the FS for unrelated reasons but it wouldn’t have made any difference if I was on the HT.. I guess the FS wasn’t helping as the real danger were the pointy sticks in the gap itself…

bugger… I thought I’d set-rant-off then it continued.

That’s an excellent “rant” Steve! I totally agree with you about progressively challenging yourself and working on skills in an organised way and it’s something I’ve done in the past and doubtless will do again in the future.

At the moment for me, MTBing fits into some extended commutes plus one evening ride a week, and I’m enjoying where I’m at with it, despite not having the greatest skills or fitness. I’m in that busy three small children phase of life, plus I run my own business and my other obsession of playing bass has escalated into writing an album and forming a band to record it, and also there’s keeping fit in a more general sense (strength and mobility work) because my body is a bit knackered from old injuries, so MTBing is taking a slightly back seat.

Regarding being “overbiked” I don’t know if my main bike is over or under or both at the same time! It’s a 160mm 29” hardtail, currently singlespeed.

chiefgrooveguru
It’s something I recently got really passionate about as a consequence of random and seemingly non-connected events…
I guess the ‘weird’ thing though is it’s all “stuff” I (and probably most of us) already know just in a MTB context. I don’t know enough about music to comment sensibly but I assume you have to spend some time breaking stuff down and practicing specific parts.

Good luck with that album… and what you want to achieve with it…

Back when i was a young 16 year old whippersnapper (circa 2000) and trail riding wasn’t a “thing” we rode dirt jump bikes everywhere (24/7 Darkangel – 24″ wheels!) i was scared of big dirt jumps; always worrying about too fast or not fast enough.

One summers day i found myself at Summerseat dirt jumps (near Ramsbottom for people in the know) and was refusing to ride the big line. One of the lads found some big planks of wood and put them in the gap and told me to ride at the jump slowly – i hit the jump and basically almost cleared the first double.

I hit it a few more times and was clearing the entire set by the end of the day…with no planks in the gaps!

You never have to go as fast as you think to clear things and have kept that with me throughout my riding over the years!