I did search could only find a thread four years ago, I hope as an historically Audi rich environment maybe some of you have had one for a while, the princess has taken a shine to one and I need to know the pitfalls, like what it’s like in the swamp..

https://www.autocar.co.uk/car-review/audi/a3-sportback-e-tron

Well thanks for the link, but I was hoping I might find somebody who’d had one, so clearly the new software or the purge has reduced the forum Audi content, 16 hours one answer and still on the front page, times definitely have changed.

I’m not a huge fan of hybrids having looked into them quite a bit.  They’re generally expensive, handle poorly and are compromised at both ends.  I test drove an E-tron, a Prius, a GTE and a BMW 330e.  The BMW was the nicest and least compromised, but was still a compromise.

The E-tron is a classic example, being over 400kg heavier than the 1.4TSI on which it’s based.  The electric motor and pack are thus insufficient to move it efficiently at speed and the petrol engine would be significantly more efficient if just used on its own.   It’s technically a massive compromise driven by legislation, market completion and technological  immaturity on a part of the provider.

If you’re predominately doing shorter journeys – just get an electric car and rent/hire/charge on route for the occasional longer one.  If you’re doing longer journeys – its still hard to argue with a Euro 6 diesel, despite what the doom mongers would have you believe.

In the end I bought an i3 after seriously considering the new Leaf.  I drove 225 miles from North Leeds to Bristol in our new i3 the other day and it required 1×35 minute charge to do that.  I could’ve made it the whole way using the REX, but stopped for food anyway.

I’ve got a Golf GTE which is very similar. Working well for us, one car family, lots of local trips (within electric range), frequent longer trips where it does 50+ mpg even starting with an empty battery and bikes on the roof. Preheating in winter is lovely. Plenty quick enough (and we had a Golf R before).

Would have liked fully electric but the affordable ones are still a bit too tight on range for some of the regular trips – this was cheap enough on a 2 year lease to be a good stopgap and we’ll see what’s out there in 18 months.

Don’t have an E-Tron but do have Golf GTE which I’ve owened now for around 9 months.

Not really sure what Daffy is on about as they’re very capable at moving at speed in all mode, Electric, Hybrid and Battery Hold. Yes they’re expensive but currently come with the a ‘grant’ which pushes the price down.

They drive very well but no they’re not a GTi so the cornering is heavy but still handle well. They’re extremely efficient even in just petrol mode I get high 50s to low 60s longterm whic is a very much a mix of hybrid, electric and hybrid currently averaging 80mpg.

Put it in the GTE mode and it’s flying marchine but of course that’s not massively efficient but great for overtaking or just have a little bit of fun.

I really was optimistic about owning one having been diesel VAG for years but due to the tax increase on those I went for it. Glad I did I won’t be going back to diesel or just petrol, hybrid it is for me until they get the range increased on electrics which won’t be far away.

Couple of threads below which hybrids are discussed.

https://singletrackworld.com/forum/topic/mitsubishi-outlander-phev-anybody-owned-one/

https://singletrackworld.com/forum/topic/petrol-v-diesel/

The BMW was the nicest and least compromised, but was still a compromise.

What was the compromise?  The boot being slightly smaller was the only compromise I have come across, other than that its the best BMW I have owned and a phenomenally good car.  Bags of power on tap, handles really well, very quiet etc etc

Yeah 330E is lovely too I nearly went for a 530e but couldn’t justify the extra cost, it was beautiful though and very quick.

Thanks for that, I’d read the Outlander thread already and I fancy the Golf but ‘she’ likes the Audi and it’ll predominantly be her using it I really can’t bring myself to de Van just yet and she absolutely will not let me and the dogs in ‘her’ vehicle. Had a couple of test drives of Nissan Leaf (range fear) Outlander (I liked it she doesn’t) nearly missed a flight in france once renting something electric in the winter so it’s definitely hybrid for me for the foreseeable future and on paper this (and the Golf) seems the best of a rum lot, thanks everyone, forum faith restored..

Oh if you’re ordering new you won’t get a Golf or Passat GTE as they’ve stopped taking orders as they couldn’t keep up with demand, The next model is using a different setup.

What was the compromise?  The boot being slightly smaller was the only compromise I have come across, other than that its the best BMW I have owned and a phenomenally good car.  Bags of power on tap, handles really well, very quiet etc etc

The almost  300kg of weight that you’re carrying around (330i = 1470kg vs 1770kg for the 330e) in order to try and eek more miles from the car. As a result it’s slower to 60 and only returns better MPG when It’s been charged from the plug or when its recuperating energy which it only does on shorter journeys.  In similar circumstances an electric car would be much more optimal.  On longer journeys, your fuel will be much the same as the petrol car upon which its based unless it’s on b-roads.  In addition much of the additional weight in the <span style=”font-size: 12.8px;”>330e</span><span style=”font-size: 12.8px;”> </span><span style=”font-size: 0.8rem;”>is higher up in the car (when compared to a pure EV) and a significant proportion overhangs the rear axle (as it’s pretty much shoved into where the spare wheel would go) which directly affects its handling.  It feels much more like a Touring than a saloon, but more so if that’s possible. I will admit that when charged, the low-down torque from 0-40 makes a difference and makes it feel faster, but its just a feeling not born out in fact – The engine is providing much of the grunt. </span>

Don’t have an E-Tron but do have Golf GTE which I’ve owened now for around 9 months.

Not really sure what Daffy is on about as they’re very capable at moving at speed in all mode,

The E-tron – or at least the one I borrowed for a weekend took almost 12 seconds to get to 60 and was limited to 40mph when doing so.  at 40, it then enterd some kind of computerised mindfart where it tried to decide what to do about starting the petrol engine, and combining the power from both drivetrains before switching the electrical system to rechargeing the battery which hammered the MPG into the low 30s.

The Golf GTE is a later derivative of the E-tron I drove in 2015/16, and I know it has better control software, but the OP asked about the e-tron, which I admittedly only drove for 3 days on a weekend test loan.  Again same as the Golf, it was an early 2016 model which I borrowed for the weekend.

Sounds like there was a fault going on there.

Indeed, sounds broken. I test drove an A3 e-tron not long after they launched and it behaved like my GTE does. Can feel a bit flat if the battery is empty but not to that extent.

…that’s with the engine and motor providing power – you can hear it and see it on the graphic. What I said above was that performance when just on electric is compromised, so if you’re planning to use it predominantly for short journeys, a pure EV would be better.A GTE or E-tron is 12-13s to 60, whereas an i3 or leaf is <8 seconds, partly due to the motor size but also weight.

I guess what I’m saying is that if 90+% of your driving is less than 120 miles (round trip) you’d be better compromising the remaining <10% by buying an EV rather than compromising other other 90 by buying the hybrid.

These were the conclusions I came to when justifying an EV. it also costs practically nothing to run which is AWESOME!

What I said above was that performance when just on electric is compromised

Ah right. Well again it’s not something I’ve noticed with my GTE which is the same motor, it’s not as quick as both no but it is certainly not slow or hesitate for the petrol engine as well it’s been told not to use it so it won’t.

Roughly 8-9 seconds.

Ooops! 12 seconds stupid night shift head.

Daffy – Yes it’s heavier but I will be dammed if I can really tell the difference.  Even with traction off and a stepping out back end I have never once thought I could feel the extra weight or in imbalance in weight.

0-60 is the same as 330i but with more torque so performance wise very similar.

Why wouldn’t you buy an e over an i when you get better performance and are reducing pollution?

As above, you’re only increasing MPG on shorter runs when using the battery charged at home.  On longer runs after depletion, you’re back to having just a heavier, less economic petrol.  Thus a BEV (without 200kg of engine, ancillaries and fuel) is less compromised for shorter journeys and a dino-juicer less compromised for longer journeys.  A hybrid is a compromise on both and only really delivers its best around town/short journeys where a full BEV actually does it better.

As a single car solution where ownership is required, I can see it’s appeal, but in a two car family, why not just have one car as a BEV?

On longer runs after depletion, you’re back to having just a heavier, less economic petrol.

High 50s to low 60s isn’t less economical.

What real world figures do you get with you Leaf a colleague had one and it got no where near the claimed 80 at the time 70 at best and usually about 60.

Okay, Its comparable to the considerably cheaper 1.4TSI upon which it’s based, but considerably less than the again cheaper 1.6TDI Bluemotion.  You get what I’m saying though, yes?  For longer runs, there are better, cheaper, more environmentally effective solutions, and on shorter runs the same is true.  What a Hybrid gives is an expensive compromise of both.  Whether you see that compromise as a negative or a positive depends upon your circumstances and mindset.

A further compromise stems from VW (and others) use of existing platforms (MQB for VW) which was never designed to be a hybrid or an EV and as such has been adapted to the role rather than designed for it, a la Tesla, i3 etc.

I don’t have a Leaf, I have an i3.  On average, I get about 130-150 miles of mixed driving from full a charge .  The most I’ve had from it is 202 miles (the battery was at 4%) , the least I’ve had is 98 miles (over 80mph, into a headwind, at night)

Not entirely as the specifications are much higher than the 1.4TSi versions. Kind of see what you’re saying yes but you are not quite right. The i3 has a great range and I did look at it but it’s really too small for me and well pretty bloody ugly, it’s also the same price as a GTE.

Yes the compromise as you call it is down to circustmances as I didn’t see a compromise, I got it as it was cheaper than a GTD which I’ve previously owned. It’s saving us around £50 per month in fuel even with charging at home, in total I’m saving near £200 per month over getting the GTD. That is no compromise.

Before the 330e I had a 320ed which was the flagship eco mpg 3 series.

I do the same journeys in the 330e and my overall mpg is higher in the new car, and to be honest it’s way more fun to drive way way faster.

I really can’t see where the compromise has come in to it.

No a hybrid isn’t going to save the earth but neither is an i3

Im eagerly awaiting the launch of the all electric 3 series

Yup I’m lookin forward to the nextgen from all the big manufactures it’s what might make me go fully electric.

Im eagerly awaiting the launch of the all electric 3 series

Arguably the i3 is the electric 3 Series, but if you’re talking about a common platform 3 series, again it’ll be a compromised design due to the fact that it’ll most likely be built on a chassis that’s supposed to also take engines, fuel tanks and big brakes which aren’t required on an EV.

The advantage of the i3 specifically is that its entire DNA was mapped to be an electric car, to minimise weight and maximise performance.  That’s why it has a CFRP chassis and is only ~1300kg, it was all designed to minimise weight and maximise performance using the right materials, whatever the cost required to do it.  Even the new leaf with similar range is ~1600kg and thus requires a larger 40kWh battery  to do what the i3 can do on a 33kWh pack.

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Not entirely as the specifications are much higher than the 1.4TSi versions. Kind of see what you’re saying yes but you are not quite right. The i3 has a great range and I did look at it but it’s really too small for me and well pretty bloody ugly, it’s also the same price as a GTE

It’s odd that you say the i3 is too small, as it has an almost identical boot space (seats up or down) to the Golf GTE and has more space in the cabin and even has a Froot.

As for looks – I love it, I think it looks suitably different to almost everything else on the road and the interior is a breath of fresh air compared to almost anything else, but will admit that the looks are divisive.

Almost identical as in it’s smaller. 😂

Daffy, as a fellow i3 owner I share your enthusiasm. So much so that I visited the Leipzig factory last month with the i3 Facebook group. Fab car and comparatively few compromises.

I changed jobs last summer so am now doing many more miles. As a result I have effectively swapped cars with my wife. So now I drive a V40 d3 which is ideal for long journeys and the i3 REX is having a slightly easier life (I did 30k in it in the first 15 months of ownership!!).

As battery tech improves, pure BEV cars will be the sensible choice for 90% of drivers. Already there is likely to be a new i3 battery later this year that will add a further 50% to the range, so 150-200miles approx.

My neighbour has a 330e and the poor thing has never been near a charger since he bought it, runs it purely as a tax break. The government really should put an escalator on the min range needed to qualify for tax breaks, probably starting at a real world 50 miles. There are too many cars that just add a nominal 20 mile range to qualify under current rules and then run on fuel for the rest of the time.

BMW i3 = 260l up and 1100l down

Golf GTE = 272l up and 1172l down

…so I’d say near identical.

The GTE lets me more than double the luggage space by sticking a roofbox on though. The i3 (as far as I know) has no approved roof rails so can’t.

I love the i3 but that, in common with a lot of BEVs, makes it a bit too impractical as the one family car for us.

Yup sums it up it’s not practical enough for me either. The reviews I read mentioned cramped rear space which is no good for teenage kids.

Not really sure what Daffy is on about as they’re very capable at moving at speed in all mode, Electric, Hybrid and Battery Hold. Yes they’re expensive but currently come with the a ‘grant’ which pushes the price down.

Indeed. Another hybrid owner here since last Sept, best decision I made in a long time IMO.

Drove up from the South Coast to Harrogate yesterday and averaged 64.5mpg in a 2.5ltr SUV Hybrid. Has Eco/Normal/Sport mode and some flappy paddles to get a froth all over should to need to go all Clarkson. CVT gearbox that means all you do is press the go peddle and the massive brake peddle should you require stoppage.

Its a SUV so plenty of boot space, seats fold flat except passenger front that folds backwards.

People get so hung up on acceleration and speed which is rather dull.