I currently am on a 37.5 hour 5 day week contract. Like many i often end up working well in excess of my contract hours to the detriment of family life.

Due to the nature of my work i plan to ask employer in new year to work 4.5 days in 4. The benefits as i see it are:
A full day off for me with in reality (although in contract) no extra length to working days
Removal/reduced exposure to office politics
Salary only drops slightly as all 40% is lost and co car tax halves
Employer will save salary, pension, NI contributions

Downsides:
Struggling to see really
Perhaps service continuity however a site day is a day away from comms anyway and day off likely to be a friday so impact minimal?

What are peoples thoughts, if you were an employer would you permit this? The firm are trying to be flexible and have various flex projects in place not a million miles from this so its not a huge jump and they have stated an aspiration to go to a 4 day week publicly, although the speed things happen here that might be 2042 before in place!

Just ask the question. Whats the worst that can happen.

I’ve been working 4 days a week for the last 6 or 7 years, don’t think I’d ever work 5 days again! Money is slightly less but life is sooo much better.

Shoot for the moon – as ads678 says, cant hurt asking.

I’ve done pretty much that myself, only issues I find is that :
– for the 4 days because I’m working the extra hour I find it hard to fit much else into the evening other than family, food, and sleep.
– sometimes on a Monday I have to catch up with what the team did on Friday while I was it… but that’s normally sorted by lunchtime.

Benefits for life and happiness are numerous

Interesting to hear how you get on. Seem some evidence of companies that have introduced 4 day working weeks and seem productivity rise. Along with UBI I see the condensed working week becoming popular quite soon.

Working a fixed 4 day week should be be acceptable but 4.5 days into 4 probably won’t wash. The 4 days you are working you would be expected to work over your hours as you do today so why would they let you claim 4.5 days?

(Putting myself in position of employer having tried this approach from a team member once)

It is somewhat dangerous, if you go to four days a week you won’t want to go back to five ; )
18 months ago I went to 4 days per week and was loving it. Then 6 months ago my manager said “I presume you want to continue on 4 days”, to which I replied that I’d been considering going to three days. An hour later I’d agreed to go to three days per week : ) Three days is bliss.
That said 4 days per week was hugely better than 5 days. Colleagues accepted that I was going to do less, but still seemed to expect pretty much everything still to be done the same. That can be managed to a fair extent though and there’s no getting away from the feeling a three day weekend gives.
There are a few working part time where I work, nobody regrets the decision.
Three days a week has a different feel, for me at least. I feel less a part of the team, more of an outsider. This is more than compensated by the amount of time away from work though!

I’d be confused how you think you will squeeze 90% of your job (4.5 days) into 80% of the days.

I’d be concerned that it creates a precedent that anyone who feels overworked can ask to reduce their working days, do the same hours on those days and get prorata 10% more, whilst being less available to the company.

Having seen the other side of the coin, if I were you I would be concerned that. 1. You’ll still end up doing 100% of the work; 2. Colleagues who don’t understand your working arrangement (or resent it) will schedule stuff on Fridays that you end up dialling in to “for just an hour”; or getting three “quick five minute calls” interrupting family time. If the organisation is the type where people regularly are doing well over contracted hours then I suspect these problems are very real.

I also think there is a lot of naivety in some high earners about 37.5h; the money comes with some expectation of responsibility and accountability. When my own team complain about workload I tend to review with them how efficient they are being (STW during the day!); I’m no Victorian mill owner, but last week someone asked me for overtime to complete a task, for a deadline they set themselves, in the same week they had been for some long lunches, had a number of meetings which they were poorly prepared for and so overran, and they always are packed up ready to leave at the minute of stopping time. More often than not, when someone complains of being overworked they are working inefficiently – there are obvious exceptions but few people can sustain genuine hard work for prolonged hours week after week.

The 4 days you are working you would be expected to work over your hours as you do today so why would they let you claim 4.5 days?

If an employer is expecting someone to do 4.5 days work in 4 days, surely they should acknowledge that and count it as 4.5 days?! We should all do as Tj suggests – get unionised!

If an employer is expecting someone to do 4.5 days work in 4 days, surely they should acknowledge that and count it as 4.5 days?!

Many employers expect that and many don’t recognise unions. All depends how much you earn, what grade you are etc, but if it is typical in a company for people to work over their contracted hours then I don’t see it going to well if someone asked to do 4.5 days hours in 4 days.

I don’t agree with it, just saying that is how it works in a lot of large companies.

Working a fixed 4 day week should be be acceptable but 4.5 days into 4 probably won’t wash. The 4 days you are working you would be expected to work over your hours as you do today so why would they let you claim 4.5 days?

I think the point was they were already working 4.5 in 4, and a 5th day on top. They just want to formalize it.

Worst case for the employer is the employee decides to work to rule and clocks off at 37.5h. I’ve been made redundant and worked for enough poor managers to realize that the threats and empty promises associated with unpaid overtime and the expectation of doing it aren’t worth it. If the workload is such that they need employees to do more work, they should pay them for it (after all someone is buying that product/service), if they’ve underbid a job based on the assumption the employees will do it for free then they’re breaking rule 1 even more.

I also think there is a lot of naivety in some high earners about 37.5h; the money comes with some expectation of responsibility and accountability. When my own team complain about workload I tend to review with them how efficient they are being (STW during the day!); I’m no Victorian mill owner, but last week someone asked me for overtime to complete a task, for a deadline they set themselves, in the same week they had been for some long lunches, had a number of meetings which they were poorly prepared for and so overran, and they always are packed up ready to leave at the minute of stopping time. More often than not, when someone complains of being overworked they are working inefficiently – there are obvious exceptions but few people can sustain genuine hard work for prolonged hours week after week.

True, but then the argument goes in a circle that changing to a 36h 4 day week then allows the employee to work more productively for 4 days rather than burning out and dossing for 5 .

I don’t agree with it, just saying that is how it works in a lot of large companies.

I hear what you’re saying and I know you’re right, but I do not understand why people accept it. Often so that some owner can make billions and claim that they’re worth it because they created the jobs. I was reading (in the Guardian) yesterday about a slanted toilet that is too uncomfortable to sit on for any length of time; created to promote efficiency. Everybody clock watching each other taking their lunch break, but all too happy when people forego their lunch and eat as they work.

Whatever happened to the idea of cooperatives?

Worth figuring out whether you want flexibility what day you take off each week or a set day, in case they say yes.

I guess the only issue (for your employer) is if you do it then others may ask for the same.

If you all take Fridays then there is no cover, if you spread your days then there is a chance that stuff drags out as you need input from others and this could easily add 2 days delay (their day off followed by yours). Depends on your line of work I suppose, maybe you can work independently so this is less of an issue?

We had this when my boss came back from mat leave on a 4 day week, it surprised us all how much delay it added by just 1 person having 1 day a week off. She used to move her off day around to suit meetings and workload.

As I think I said in the other thread, you need to get your job to fit into your allocated hours before you even think about reducing days. No doing a bit extra in the evenings, no getting in 30 mins early to get ahead of stuff, no “just finishing this off” after most of the office has gone home. That might be offloading things, it might be getting more efficient. You also need to be in a place where you can take a single day off and there’s enough cover/process/understanding that you don’t get a single call, or need to look at or respond to a single email.

Get there first, THEN ask about dropping days. If you don’t, you’ll inevitably end up working near a full week for less than a full week’s pay.

I hear what you’re saying and I know you’re right, but I do not understand why people accept it.

I can tell you why I accept it. I earn a very good wage and my employer is good and it is a good place to work. How hard I am actually working during those hours is up for debate (clue, I am not on a day off as I type this)

I can tell you why I accept it. I earn a very good wage and my employer is good and it is a good place to work. How hard I am actually working during those hours is up for debate (clue, I am not on a day off as I type this)

I don’t fully understand. People who you manage and you yourself, don’t work efficiently; including reading STW etc and taking long lunch breaks, but do extra long days because anyone who leaves on time is seen suspiciously, as if they’re some sort of shirker?

Ps I am on a day off.

I don’t fully understand. People who you manage and you yourself, don’t work efficiently; including reading STW etc and taking long lunch breaks, but do extra long days because anyone who leaves on time is seen suspiciously, as if they’re some sort of shirker?

Yes you really don’t seem to understand. Where have I mentioned inefficient working, long lunch breaks, extra long days, suspicion of people who leave on time and seeing as shirkers?
You seem to have listed your own issues there not mine.

None of that is the case but I do however work a bit more than my 35 contracted hours, probably 5.5 days of hours in 5 days

I see this as an opportunity for my employer to make a demonstrable step towards the flexible working utopia they keep talking about.

Reality is i will probably end up doing 5 days in 4. I think i am probably doing about 6-6.5 in 5 anyway and this the cycle i wamt to change. More for more, a payrise is not free in my place!

Some really good points being made here

Kerley

Yes you really don’t seem to understand. Where have I mentioned…

Apologies, I was referring mainly to what poly had written.

gauss1777 thanks.
These are however issues I am aware of where people stay until a certain time and if leaving earlier there can be a perception of not working as hard. I tend to start very early as it suits me so do leaver before most people. Sometimes I will get a comment but when I ask the person where they were at 07:30 they shut up.
I am fortunate that I work for someone who doesn’t care what hours I do, they are interested in what I get done not how long it took.
From a workers right point of view I would fully support clocking in and out and doing exactly the hours contacted for but even that is not really workable these days with working from home and so on.

I dunno, there’s a slight dichotomy between only having to work work the hours required to get a job done, and spending time at work, not working.

I should get back to work.

I see this as an opportunity for my employer to make a demonstrable step towards the flexible working utopia they keep talking about.

Reality is i will probably end up doing 5 days in 4. I think i am probably doing about 6-6.5 in 5 anyway and this the cycle i want to change. More for more, a payrise is not free in my place!

Some really good points being made here

Does your company promote flexible working? If so then this should be exactly the kind of thing they should be supporting.

if not then as above, what’s the worst that could happen?

Ravingdave……

My wife has just been through the process of requesting “flexible working” arrangements which is essentially what you are trying to do.

She works at a University which prides itself in being family friendly and aware of the mental health implications of not getting the work-life balance right.

You will need to formalise your request with a written letter. (There maybe a process you have to follow so check out your organisations policy on flexible working arrangement closely.)

My wife had to state the main reason for requesting the change in hours (in her case “child care”)

She also had to consider the “business case” for changing the hours. In her case a closer look at what the University were going to get out of the new arrangement was called for – not just a simple “you’ll save NI contributions.” She was able to evidence that the University would be able to reduce staffing costs and that they would retain a highly skilled employee who would have jumped ship if the new arrangement were not forthcoming.

Also the University wanted to know how my wife would deal with the impact of change on customers eg…. how she was going to maintain continuity of care, how she was going to plan effectively on her reduced timetable etc.

I think that many organisations understand the importance of work-life balance. I’m glad that both her and I work for one.

Hope your situation works out for you.

I have asked my employer for the same thing but reducing to 4 days a week with equivalent pay cut, they even have a procedure for the request. They refused as they can’t employ someone for the x1 day. It’s a great job in a great business and being a commercial position I respect their view. But I am still a bit gutted. Will review at some point next year but I wish the entire economy switched to 4 days…

My employer offers these, you need to submit an official request and it is reviewed before being approved but plenty of people here do 37 hours in 4 days, most work 0800-1800 for 3 days then 0800-1730 for the last. I think it helps that our office operates 0800-2000 due to some customer support functions.