Yes true but in order to draw in support the need to be able to bring some elements of truth or peoples perceptions of truth in. Its how they work, find a crack and then hammer a wedge into it.

Ah OK, If you mean that racist such as the BNP sometimes use half-truths to further their agenda, then yes I’ll go along with that. But I think it’s important to understand that the whole racist ideology is based on a lie

So to over extend my tenuous analogy its only by admitting wherre the cracks are we can fill them in not make them wider. Racists will always be racist but by being open and honest we can remove there support amongst the stupid and easily led.

the belief that all people and races aren’t equal, after all, that is the definition of a racist, there is not the slightest element of truth in that.

Hmmmmmn.

That’ll be a coincidence then will it?

Nowt to do with genetics at all? the Kalenjin tribe don’t dominate the sport of long distance running for any reason but coincidence?

I must have a look at the olympic 100 metre sprint finals and wonder if there’s anything in the whole “all races are equal” thing!

I think that it would be more accurate to say that racism was the belief that somebody should be treated differently, or was of less worth to society, based upon their race.

Zulu you are really struggling now arent you.

Yeah, really struggling, its so difficult to pick holes with an argument thats more simplistic and full of holes than a junior school homework assignment.

Guess what, statistically black people a have bigger average penis size than white people, there, I’m a racist, woo-and indeed-hoo!

but by being open and honest we can remove there support amongst the stupid and easily led.

Well of course. I am frequently “open and honest” that the open door policy of allowing restriction-free immigration from newer EU member states has imo been a disastrous mistake.

And I’m aware that less than honest people are likely to call me a racist for suggesting it. In much the same way that Gordon Brown famously accused a Labour supporting member of the public of being a “bigot” for saying the same thing.

Even commitment to withdrawal from the EU and by people such as myself, is sometimes as portrayed racist – simply because of UKIP’s inherently racist character.

But it is precisely because of my unflinching anti-racism that I feel happy and comfortable to be “open and honest” about such matters.

There is a universal belief that all people are equal, even though some are taller or run faster than others, of you feel that you can “pick holes” in that claim Zulu-Eleven, then you are indeed struggling. In fact you sound desperate.

There is a universal belief that all people are equal, even though some are taller or run faster than others

So, are some people more likley to be involved in certain types of crime then? or is that racist?

Yep, desperate.

oh dear Ernie, your argument has been holed underwater by your own arrogance, how suprising 🙄

Back to the original case. As I sadly expected, the crime of these perverted bastards is being overshadowed by the racial element.

These men got together and decided to commit crimes. They picked on the weakest and most available girls they could, who they (correctly) believed wouldn’t be believed or supported if they went to the authorities. The connection between these men might be ethnicity, it might be that they all live close by each other, it might be because they’re mostly involved in the taxi trade. None of us know the true linkages, but blaming the police for being too soft on Asians – which is what’s being implied by several of the posters here – is the easy answer.

The real shame is that women are not listened to, and that paedophile gangs do exist. Mostly, they’re white, because that’s the overwhelmingly prevalent racial type in the UK. But rather then get furious about the evil that such men do, and the inept job the authorities do in bringing rapists to justice, it’s just so much easier to say ‘yeah, it’s those Asians, they don’t respect our white women’. This then fuels the BNP and their ilk to rail on about immigration, the evils of Islam, and whether or not we’re free to fly the flag of St George (a Syrian, by the way).

The reality is that we – as a society – don’t sufficiently respect women. The girls in this case were mostly in care, and were not properly looked after by the care authorities. These were girls who had gone off the rails and should have been treated as the damaged individuals they were, and those charged with their care clearly didn’t take that seriously enough. We should be turning our anger onto these people, venting our fury at the police for not listening, and demanding why the CPS didn’t prosecute earlier.

The cop-out response to this case is to blame the men who look different or come from some other place for their colour or religion rather than for their crimes, to wave the flag, and to say that we’d expect all those horrible darkies to do terrible things to our lovely chaste white girls. So much harder to accept that we have a real problem with sexual crime, and that mostly, we choose to ignore it.

Shame on us all if we fail to properly learn lessons from this.

So, are some people more likley to be involved in certain types of crime then? or is that racist?

Dont know you tell me, can you untangle that from socio-economic factors?

can you untangle that from socio-economic factors

This is exactly the problem.. the racist brain is too under developed to understand anything more complex than visual differences..

It tries but just becomes confused and angry and insecure..

Like a cornered animal it lashes out to defend itself in the face of such utterly overwhelming superiority and is consumed by fear and hate..
I used to think that the racist should be pitied or could be educated but it is becoming increasingly clear that there is no hope for it as a species..

ooh, a Genotype/Phenotype discussion, that could be an interesting soujourn…

can you untangle that from socio-economic factors?

I watched a documentary years ago about how the study of genetic pre-disposition had been basically destroyed by the “scientific” studies the Nazis did about eugenics and that scientists did their best to avoid race as a driver from a genetic PoV and left it to people from a sociology background as it concentrated on the socio-economic factors and learned behaviour. It’s clear to most people that PHYSICAL traits are part of our genes and then we exploit them or ignore them based on choice or environment.

Predictably, racist elements concentrate on the behaviour and try to make people believe that the problem is people’s race and never bother to point out that when people of different races do bad things, it’s not down to race so much as their lives. So to return to the recent issue in the news, the question really is whether the larger than expected number of asian gangs involved in this (in proportion to the size of population) is because they’re asian or because they’re scum because of something they CHOSE to do.

I think I know which I believe to be true.

Double post edit

ooh, a Genotype/Phenotype discussion, that could be an interesting soujourn…

no a discussion of socio-economic factors and crime, can you provide any proof that any group is more prone to crime when socio economics is removed from the analysis?

Zulu-Eleven – Member
Guess what, statistically black people a have bigger average penis size than white people

Aah, I’m starting to get an idea of why you think the way you do.

Never mind, I’m assured that it’s all about the motion in the ocean and all that……………

My take on this is that this group probably targetted young white lasses because they would be less likely to be found out by their own community. Not sure what it’s like elsewhere, but northern pakistani communities tend to be extremely insular, with little or no interaction with people from ‘outside’, including the police. To me, that would make it an opportunistic crime rather than a ‘racist’ one. I’m probably viewing this in a bit of a simplistic way, but please, correct me if I’m wrong. Had to laugh at one of the posts on here describing an emphasis on law and order being part of the bnp’s manifesto – as an ex trade unionist and involvement in cnd, etc, in the 80’s and 90’s, I found myself recieving a fair bit of unwanted attention from various right wing groups, including having my name and contact details put on ‘redwatch’. Law and order my arse, they’re just racist tossbags.

I haven’t read much of this thread, and I don’t have time to.

I am so sick of people branding those who pull their head out the ground and recognise the overwhelming danger presented by Islam being branded racists. The utter joke of the phrase ‘Islamaphobia’ is insane. The media world is full of sh*t, the BBC are islamist leftist publicity whores. I don’t have to deal with a lot of people who believe Muslim is a race on day to day basis (this message board is one of the few places I have to witness it).

Doesn’t matter how many people want to bury their heads and pretend that everyone is lovely and just wants to get on (peace and freedom exclude each other amongst Muslims), an awful lot of people know the truth and will continue to spread it to others.

The end result? Hopefully within a generation or two, it will be commonly acknowledged that Islam is holding back cultural evolution worldwide. Then a few thousand years after that, people will begin to grow out of it. In the meantime, civilisation is going nowhere! 🙂

Bit early for a drink, isn’t it?

Hopefully within a generation or two, it will be commonly acknowledged that Islam is holding back cultural evolution worldwide.

All religion that should be.

The real issue here is how the hell has this thread lasted to 180 plus posts? I am stunned. Not enough to be arsed to read it all, but stunned nonetheless that the opportunity to express offensive and extremist views of either extreme hasn’t been fully grasped with both hands.

……think I’ll have to consider subscribing to some other grumpy old bastards forum …this ones losing its USP

Edit cba…

@nickf

You raise a good point about the victims in this case be treated as ‘one of them’.

Not only does the fact that that the perpetrators viewed the victims as different and so of less worth, so the wider public would probably also have dismissed these victims as something class-based, dare I say as ‘chavs’ or something else demeaning, and so slightly more easy to ignore and dismiss.

It shows the dangers of allowing groupings to form in our heads and then dictate our responses – prejudice by another name.

the BBC are islamist leftist publicity whores

😆

no really

😆

It also said, the abuse was reported to the police as far back as 2008.

unfortunately police, social services and the NHS knew in 2002
http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/uknews/crime/9254982/Rochdale-grooming-trial-police-knew-about-sex-abuse-in-2002-but-failed-to-act.html

but they are all investigating why they missed it in 2008 so that’s alright

Zulu-Eleven – Member

oh dear Ernie, your argument has been holed underwater by your own arrogance, how suprising

You’re confusing not being arsed to argue with a muppet who relies on lies, half-truths, and innuendos, to backup their “argument”, with “winning”.

I point out on a past thread that I understand the difficulties which must face a young black person living on a council estate in an area of high unemployment when in comes to employment opportunities, and 8 months later you take it completely out of context posting an edited quote to suggest that I know what it is to be black per se.

You are without doubt the most thoroughly dishonest person on here. Your entire arguments are based on complete distortions of the truth, insinuations, and deliberate false impressions.

Of course such tactics are hardly surprising coming from someone like you. In common with other people with far right views you recognise that the loopy right-wing nonsense you spout doesn’t stand up to scrutiny therefore leaving you unable to provide an intelligent and rational argument – so you rely on lies, half-truths, and innuendos.

Right-wing American neo-conservatives and their bedfellows in the Tea Party and Fox News are absolute masters at telling lies, half-truths, and innuendos. Ranging from Hugo Chavez is a dictator to Barack Obama is a foreign born Marxist and Muslim.

Only this morning I read in how ultra-conservatives in the US have surpassed themselves by equating those who are concerned about climate change with serial killers.

Big donors ditch rightwing Heartland Institute over Unabomber billboard

“Extremist US thinktank compared those who believe in man-made climate change to serial killer Ted Kaczynski”

Interestingly the BNP in Britain manage a completely different lie concerning the subject. According to the BNP “global warming” is a “sinister hoax” perpetuated by the “ruling elite” to “to financially punish the British public directly through increased taxes to give to the Third World”. Apparently it’s a deliberate attempt “de-industrialise Britain”…….the BNP manage to find a racist angle to everything to satisfy their hatred of black people.

“All this was inspired by the principle–which is quite true within itself–that in the big lie there is always a certain force of credibility; because the broad masses of a nation are always more easily corrupted in the deeper strata of their emotional nature than consciously or voluntarily; and thus in the primitive simplicity of their minds they more readily fall victims to the big lie than the small lie, since they themselves often tell small lies in little matters but would be ashamed to resort to large-scale falsehoods. It would never come into their heads to fabricate colossal untruths, and they would not believe that others could have the impudence to distort the truth so infamously. Even though the facts which prove this to be so may be brought clearly to their minds, they will still doubt and waver and will continue to think that there may be some other explanation. For the grossly impudent lie always leaves traces behind it, even after it has been nailed down, a fact which is known to all expert liars in this world and to all who conspire together in the art of lying”

Lying – the refuge of ultra-rightwingers throughout the ages.

What have the BNP got to do with the right wing? they’re socialists!

One minute you’re calling me a right wing anarcho capitalist who supports the US Tea party movement – the next minute I’m supposed to be supporting a party that engourages nationalisation of the utilities

Get your narrative straight Ernie!

“the question should be why are white girls more vulnerable as evil people occur in all groups.”
This ^^

I represented a group of white post office robbers this week all english and all described their religion as christian ?? Why is it culturally acceptable for christians to mask up and turn over post offices?

🙄

ernie just ignore him it is what annoys him most you cannot debate with him as he only wants to scribble

You will be arguing the National socialists in Germany were left wing next and with that i bid you a happy life.

Your faux not bothered attitude will be betrayed by the fact you will post at us even though you are being ignored 😛

Lying – the refuge of ultra-rightwingers throughout the ages.[/u]

Anyone actually read the Tea Party manifesto?

I think the key issues are that a comment is being made and certain members are hijacking such comments as an outline for a posters total ideology, which is rarely the case.

Hence bullying, there is far too much cut and paste here and bullying which is also obvious in other threads. This from people who simply believe that their way is the only way.

To a degree accept we are all different and have to live in society. This has gone so far off topic its untrue.

you keep saying bullying so why not report it?
you said something outlandish got challenged, could not really justify it then accused everyone of bullying.

the error lies with you not being able to back up what you say rather than people challenging what you say

You referred to me [ well people like me ] as a lilly livered liberals is that not bullying and name calling?. I did not bother to complain about it but your bullying references are getting tiresome report someone for bullying then and see if the mods agree,
Otherwise defend your view

This from people who simply believe that their way is the only way.

Stop saying that you bully 🙄

On your issue I suspect both you and Zulu have read the BNP manifesto and the tea party one. i have reads bits of the former and all the later but it is very short so probably read less of that the BNP one
HTH

Oh what did I say that was outlandish? Suprised you have not cut and pasted it! Was it suggesting the BNP may have some good notions? You possibly assumed that I was referring to their immigration and or racist undertones.

As for me being a bully I accept your views which you are entitled to, wether I agree is irrelevent and I do in fact in many areas however that does not give you a right to bully people.

Equally when you are found out and someone suggests that you are a bully then turning around and calling them a bully is not particularly intelligent or clever its simply a guilt ridden knee jerk reaction.

Glad you actually took time to read the manifestos, as I have read most of the UK ones and a glance at the Tea Party, you spout your venomous hatred at all who think differently to you then sneak a peak to see what you are actually talking about.

Regarding the thread, its off track, did I call you a “lilly livered liberal”, I think you wll find I used that as a phrase without specifying anybody, therefore please stop twisting what has and has not been said. If you felt it struck a personal nerve then so be it.

Would you have been as offended if I had said the Tory Party. Probably not as BNP is emotive and you assume I am referring to its racial undertones. You don’t know me yet you persist in challenging a few people in here at every turn.

If the cap fits wear it, for those interested read my posts and see who exactly I did or did not call a “lilly livered liberal”. I couldn’t find me calling you that, if you can so be it. There is a post where you make that assumption incorrectly.

bit bolshie for someone who thinks they are getting bullied
I did this just for you

Suprised you have not cut and pasted it!

😀

Equally when you are found out and someone suggests that you are a bully then turning around and calling them a bully is not particularly intelligent or clever its simply a guilt ridden knee jerk reaction.

Yeah we reached the playground 🙄 I dont think even you are as stupid as believe that and instead you are just doing some more of your “bullying”

You said something stupid you then called everyone names whilst mocking them and accusing them of bullying you and you are still doing it becasue you could not defend what you said and you have dragged it out for pages

You forgot to say whether calling someone a lilly livered liberal was bullying/rude and instead went down a blind alley about whether you did or did not say it to me whilst accusing me of

you spout your venomous hatred at all who think differently to you

Was that the sort of tolerance and respect I should have been aiming for?

Hilarious and sad in equal measure

Well the only thing you have not cut and pasted is where I allegedly called you a “lilly livered liberal”

Can we therefore assume it did not actually happen?