Anyone owned Ti bike and NOT broke it ??

Oh, and Van Nicholas uses the line ‘ENDLESS DURABILITY’, which presumably means they expect their frames to last for ever.

I linked to the VN warranty earlier in the thread.

Re durability, imo it’s much like carbon, you can build a super strong ti bike but most people who buy ti bikes, want it to be lightweight and soft. I’m not sure you can really choose that, knowingly, and then complain much if it doesn’t last a thousand years.

Sure, manufacturers bear responsibility for that- and “lifetime warranty where it’s the lifetime of the frame” absolutely IS dishonest and intentionally misleading horseshit, it’s like having a warranty that’s “? number of years” and you only get to find out the actual number when it breaks. Let’s be honest, lots of warranties cover less than the owner probably thinks it does and do their best to hide that or at least make it nonobvious, and you find out when it breaks (and lots of owners never bother to actually find out what the warranty is) Buyers play a big part, in fact it’s probably a lot of chicken and egg. There’s a basic level of fitness for purpose but after that point, durability and lifespan is an option.

And titanium is an enthusiast’s material too, more so than anything else we make bikes out of, so most people buying it should be equipped to make a smart decision. I hope I did, when i got mine, i guess we’ll find out if I break it and subsequently whine 🙂

In answer to the OP. Yes, my current van nicholas mk3 tuareg is still going strong. Its predecessors, a 26″ mk1 tuareg, and a 26″ mk2 tuareg, both failed on their rather beautiful welds. On average they are lasting 6 years or about 12k km of ground-based rooty xc duty.

Chapeau to van nic – they covered both failures on the original lifetime warranty.

Interested in the warranty points made here.

“lifetime warranty where it’s the lifetime of the frame” absolutely IS dishonest and intentionally misleading horseshit

If the warranty terms (on paper and online) say that it’s product lifetime, eg ‘against defects in materials and manufacturing for the lifetime of the product’, that’s not intentionally misleading, right? Because if it fails any other way it’s open to dispute whatever way you want to read ‘lifetime’ – did you get all Road Bike Party on your Pinarello Dogma? etc.

If it was a warranty for the lifetime of the owner, usually ‘defects in materials and manufacturing for the lifetime of the original owner’, eventually things break, usually before the owner. And if it’s general fatigue that’s broken it rather than a flaw it’s open to dispute again. All frames and forks will fatigue or deteriorate in a way. Maybe that fatigue point is what needs to be clearer.

Having said that, the ISO standards for bikes dictate that the brand should explain realistic component lifespans and how use influences that. What no-one can do is put a time frame on it so if most of a brand’s frames last a long time and you get an early stage bathtub-type failure on a lightly-used bike (has happened to me on a Ti frame, failed after ~4 months), it’s down to the brand and you to work it out. I think that’s potentially risky for both brand rep and owner satisfaction. And if a brand can’t be consistent it’s risky.

As I said before I think lifetime warranties are a problem if the terms aren’t clear – if they are there’s some RTFM in all this. I’d rather see ‘7 years no-quibble warranty’ or similar, but even then there would have to be a Road Bike Party clause.

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Part of the ‘for life’ bit probably comes from its fatigue properties. Like steel ti is reported to have a lower limit, at stresses below that limit it will not fatigue. This isn’t the case for aluminium and other materials which always fatigue. So you might think a well designed and made ti bike would never crack.

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I think Brant confirmed that although it’s true that titanium products can be made so that they never fatigue, this doesn’t apply to bikes. The wall thickness required would result in a frame too heavy to be desirable. However as we can see above that doesn’t stop bike makers letting the myth persist

^ plus if you make it more thick walled or stiff it’d put more stress on the welds and it’s the welded area that fails. And the fatigue limit that gets associated with Ti wouldn’t really apply to a welded frame, more to a seamless tube or a spring.

I while ago I took a punt on a bargain Titus el Viajero frame that hadn’t been used much (assume its Waltly built). It was the cost of a cheaper new steel frame, but obviously no warranty. I absolutely love how it rides, and it seems to be built nicely and is light but not silly light – a fair chunk less than an equivalent size steel frame. I’m hoping it lasts well and that it can be repaired if I do break it and unlike a tough carbon frame, I don’t need to be that careful with knocks and abrasion to the tubes, which does appeal to me a lot. I’m hoping it’ll last me a long time, and I might feel differently had I spent £2k on a new frame with warranty.

My current hardtail is a 1997 Airborne Lucky Strike, The only welding it has had was when Vernon Barker added a rear disc mount a few years later. I’m reluctant to say more lest I jinx the old thing.

I more often use a 2019 PX Tempest (Mk3) gravel bike. It’s seen a fair bit of abuse but has so far proved robust, comfy and reliable.

I linked to the VN warranty earlier in the thread.

The point I was making was about marketing rather than warranty, though I get that the two, particularly where ti is concerned, aren’t entirely separate. Anyway, for me – three ti bikes – the attraction has always been primarily the ride quality allied to light weight, then the cosmetics rather than any perceived ‘endless durability’ or the idea that I could pass the frame on to my grandchildren, not that I have any.

Surely, anyway, the basic answer to this thread is that yes, clearly some people have ‘owned Ti bike and NOT broke it’, but equally some ti frames have broken. My experience was that Lynskey – via Ragley – fulfilled their warranty terms and actually, after my incessant whining, went beyond them.

You pays your money and you takes your chances, but at least you know that titanium is generally repairable – as is carbon and steel, though not usually, aluminium.

As far as warranties go, basing them on time rather than mileage/type of mileage is, if you think it through, somewhat illogical. I could buy a frame tomorrow, leave it stood for five years unridden, then crack it on the first ride and it would be out of warranty. Equally someone could put mega-miles on the same frame in 12 months. Go figure.

Or here’s a real world one. The late Mike Hall once spent most of a mutual friend’s wedding explaining to me that carbon fibre was the best choice for a reliable bike frame as long as it was properly manufactured as it simply wouldn’t fatigue. He then chose a carbon frame for his round the world ride, basically an On One Dirty Disco. I’m pretty sure he did the whole trip without breaking the frame.

Coincidentally I own what’s basically the same frame and cracked it in two places riding round the Peak District, admittedly in some very unsuitable places and with high miles, but it broke and was repaired and is still limping along. I’m not sure what that tells you other than that you can’t really generalise.

I have a Kingdom Vendetta that’s not broken yet. But compared to some of the antiques referenced on this thread, its barely out the shop door at 3.5 years old.

Lifetime warranty too, but I don’t need to tie myself up in the semantics of what that means. It seems pretty elementary really.

Lifetime warranty too, but I don’t need to tie myself up in the semantics of what that means. It seems pretty elementary really.

Do you mean it seems pretty elementary because you expect a new frame after 3.5 years of use if it breaks or because you expect it’s unlikely to be honoured after 3.5 years?

https://kingdombike.com/pages/warranty

KingdomBike (and subsidiary companies) will at its sole discretion repair or replace any KingdomBike frame that fails due to manufacturing or material defects within the time periods detailed…

…We would consider most manufacturing issues to be highlighted within a few weeks of initial build.

I’d say they’ve left themselves some wiggle room if it does break after 3.5 years.

In reply to the original question:

No Ti

Steel: owned 16 I can think of in a few seconds. Two broke, one down tube on a db Vitus race bike and a seat tube on a db 531 tourer. The Vitus was my favourite training hack for a decade at a time I was doing 12 000km a year. None of the MTBs failed even the jump bikes but I didn’t keep them long.

Alu: owned 6 broke 2. The failures were MTB fs, both at the rear qr dropouts.

Carbon: owned 6, 3 mtb 3 road, none broken.

I have a Ti gravel bike and hardtail. I’ve not broken either and expect them to last a long time. I wasn’t aware breakages seem so common.

We would consider most manufacturing issues to be highlighted within a few weeks of initial build.

LOL.

No. It’s like they know nothing about welding…

I wasn’t aware breakages seem so common.

acquisition bias – people don’t complain that their Ti frames didn’t break.

yup.

lynskey summit. frame was fine. i spent a fortune getting all new pivot bearings and bushings. fixed it up and it got stolen from my house.

“We would consider most manufacturing issues to be highlighted within a few weeks of initial build.”

See my earlier post about lack of evacuation / incorrect purge / weld contamination.

How to Evaluate Titanium Welding Visually?

My Ti career goes sold one cracked one sold one sold one (that later cracked) cracked one. So a mixed bag, but mainly of cracks. Now I’m moving on to cracking carbon frames instead.

Seven Axiom currently on just over 120k miles at 20 years old. OnOne down tube tore off head tube after three years. Singular Pegasus still going strong after 8-9 years with new owner

enmac
I still ride my 22 year old Airborne Lancaster.  Although it started off life as a 26inch mountain….

I have one of those bought the frame off someone on here around 2009… I dont do much MTB nowadays as lost the habit during lockdown and mostly ride gravel on a Camino Ti

I still ride my 22 year old Airborne Lancaster.

Snapped mine many years ago. Cracked at the dropout.