However, as soon as I said it (and she pulled a “WTF!” face), I realized that I’d just said it to an ethnically Chinese person – and (although I didn’t know for sure) the phrase was probably rooted in racism, or at least colonial-era language.

That’s one hell of a hunch!

An individual might have got annoyed at “chop chop”, but I don’t believe it is generally recognised as offensive:
https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Chop_chop_(phrase)

On the other hand,I think you would have to be living under a rock not to be aware that “monkey” is extremely insulting when directed at black people. I know next to nothing about football, but even as someone who doesn’t follow the sport, I’m well aware of the nasty stuff that some black players have faced, like monkey chants and people throwing bananas.

As other people have noted, it is difficult to believe that H&M published that photo. I’d have expected someone in the process to have spotted the problem pretty quicky.

That’s one hell of a hunch!

Ha! Not really…… from her face it was pretty evident! I had honestly never considered it before – but it felt wrong as soon as I’d said it.

On the other hand,I think you would have to be living under a rock not to be aware that “monkey” is extremely insulting when directed at black people. I know next to nothing about football, but even as someone who doesn’t follow the sport, I’m well aware of the nasty stuff that some black players have faced, like monkey chants and people throwing bananas.

You dont need to be football fan to know this, just google “Michelle Obama Monkey” and you will see that this sort of thing is still prevelant in todays society.

Mom of H&M Model Used to Sell “Monkey” Hoodie is Mad at Us for Getting Mad: “Get over it!”

So the model’s mum is yet another person in the chain who surprisingly didn’t spot the obvious problem. Maybe it’s something to do with being involved in fashion that impairs your common sense and general knowledge?

“Terry Mango”….. awesome

So the model’s mum is yet another person in the chain who surprisingly didn’t spot the obvious problem.

Or maybe she just thought it’s a non issue..

Or maybe she just thought it’s a non issue..

This. ….and she’s right.

This. ….and she’s right.

But not according to everyone.

Given I’ve been posting links to comments by John Barnes, I should note that I’m not a football fan at all (I had to do a bit of googling around to find the name of the player – I only knew there was a well known black England player who’d made such comments).

Ironically, no I don’t…

Or maybe she just thought it’s a non issue..

This. ….and she’s right.

Maybe? The quote in the story says quite clearly that she thinks it’s a non issue. That doesn’t mean she’s right though, does it?

That doesn’t mean she’s right though, does it?

Of course it does, otherwise she would have to be offended about something she isn’t offended about.

Just for clarification* it’s the same as the podium girls not providing the definitive opinion on whether having podium girls is a good thing.

*yeah, I know it’s probably not providing clarification for those who don’t understand why the podium girls’ opinion isn’t definitive 😉

Just for clarification* it’s the same as the podium girls not providing the definitive opinion on whether having podium girls is a good thing.

Apart from women and black children, which other groups do you think shouldd have thier clothing and job options dictated to them?

…and how would you define ‘black child’. If a child had one black grandparent could he/she choose her own clothes? What about children with 3 black grandparents who visually appear to be 100pc ‘white’. Would you DNA test children to determine what clothes the could wear?

If I found a family tree and discovered a black ancestor (I’ve already dicovered several asian ancestors) would I have to bin all my son’s monkey related clothing?

*yeah, I know it’s probably not providing clarification for those who don’t understand why the podium girls’ opinion isn’t definitive

It is nice to get such quick confirmation

It’s not a strawman.

Either it’s ok for black children to wear whatever they want or it’s not.

If it’s not, how are you defining ‘black’? DNA percentage? Physical appearence?

Apart from women and black children, which other groups do you think shouldd have thier clothing and job options dictated to them?

I dont think anyone has suggested thats its wrong or inapropriate for a “black kid to wear one of these hoodies. But what is a major balls up, is a multinational company not realising the potential offense and insensetivity of using an image like this in thier marketing campaign.

Being Irish i’ve met lots of people who have a darker tan than me but never anyone whose skin was black.

I’ve worked with colour for over three decades and although i wouldn’t call myself an expert or anything, i know black and brown when i see them. Even the nice chaps i met in Ethopia were brown – a really dark, warm, rich brown – but not ****ing black!

I dont think anyone has suggested thats its wrong or inapropriate for a “black kid to wear one of these hoodies.

That’s *exactly* what people are saying. They all agree that if they’d sacked the black kid and replaced him with a white kid they would have no problem whatseover.

i’ve met lots of people who have a darker tan than me but never anyone whose skin was black.

I’ve worked with colour for over three decades and although i wouldn’t call myself an expert or anything, i know black and brown when i see them. Even the nice chaps i met in Ethopia were brown – a really dark, warm, rich brown – but not ****ing black!

This.

Apart from women and black children, which other groups do you think shouldd have thier clothing and job options dictated to them?

…and how would you define ‘black child’. If a child had one black grandparent could he/she choose her own clothes? What about children with 3 black grandparents who visually appear to be 100pc ‘white’. Would you DNA test children to determine what clothes the could wear?

If I found a family tree and discovered a black ancestor (I’ve already dicovered several asian ancestors) would I have to bin all my son’s monkey related clothing?

Some people find the world a very confusing place.

I’m not sure you’d know one if it shook hands with you.

Some people find the world a very confusing place.

I’m not sure you’d know one if it shook hands with you.

I recognise the “Avoiding the Issue” fallacy too.

Ah, yes, that would be this one:

This.
[/quote]

Ah, yes, that would be this one:

That’s not avoiding the issue, that *is* the issue! If you’re going to say ‘black’ people can only wear certain clothes first you have to define ‘black’ people.

Euro is spot on.

You just need a pencil …

Some people just want to take us back to a time when the colour of your skin was relevant.

😆 really? To paraphrase Euro “oh look, a squirrel”. If you think his post is at all relevant then that just emphasises how much you’re missing the point by.

really? To paraphrase Euro “oh look, a squirrel”. If you think his post is at all relevant then that just emphasises how much you’re missing the point by.

If you’re going to catagorise people by the colour of their skin (as far as i’m concerned were all the same race – human) you might as well get it right. But then, why stop at skin colour? Why not have a race of tall people, baldies, etc. It’s not like we have a choice how tall we are just like we have no say as to how much pigment our skin has.

Rene is touching at what i was getting at, and earlier in the thread km79 posted something that most ignored. The drama this innocuous photoshoot has caused it a step backwards and it’s a saddening we have to expose the younger generations to the ignorance and bigotry of our, and older generations.

Times change, and so do people thankfully. The world isnt the same place it was even 20 years ago. I grew up and still live in a place that has had it’s fair share of prejudice and a racism (or bigotry) of sorts. I’ve been on the wrong end of it on many occasions but i’m not bitter about it (now), and to be frank, it’s not something i’ll tell my kids about unless they ask. It’s hopefully not something they’ll never have to experience. As i said, things and people change. Bringing this kind of thing to the surface does more harm than good as for some it can re-open old wounds. All this people being offended on behalf of people who may not even be offended is really odd. So yeah, a squirrel! 😀

All this people being offended on behalf of people who may not even be offended is really odd

Why do you think people are “getting offended on behalf of someone else”? I think H and M made an obvious cock up and the photo was inappropriate, for the reasons that have been well explained by other people. I’ve no idea if there was deliberate intent by someone or if everyone involved just failed to spot the problem. That’s just my opinion; it’s not offered on behalf of anyone else.

The world isnt the same place it was even 20 years ago.

That’s true. 20 years ago I wouldn’t have expected to hear the President of the USA saying that a white nationalist demonstration included “some very fine people”…

All this people being offended on behalf of people who may not even be offended is really odd

It’s bloody annoying & I wish people who get offended cos they think SOMEONE ELSE may be offended would STFU & get in the sea.
Years ago in the prison I was working in, we had a largely unused room next to the office & one day I turned up at work to see a tiny wigwam made from broken pool cues & prison bedsheets with a note on saying, ‘Quiet please, Officer G may be asleep in his wigwam’ Officer G (me) is only about 5’5″ in work boots & I found it very amusing & not in the least bit offended. Came in again a few days later to find that a certain governor had told the other staff to remove the makeshift wigwam because ‘Mr G might be offended’. I was more offended that she’d stuck her nose in & I told her so later. She was like, ‘well I was only acting on your behalf, It seemed insensitive’.
Well it wasn’t, & was very offended by her stupid response.

Was probably a tepee.

Bit of racial insensitivity there. 😉

Cultural appropriation, that’s what it was.

Why do you think people are “getting offended on behalf of someone else”? I think H and M made an obvious cock up and the photo was inappropriate, for the reasons that have been well explained by other people. I’ve no idea if there was deliberate intent by someone or if everyone involved just failed to spot the problem.

I don’t know why. As i said, i find it very odd. I don’t see an obvious cock up or problem . If i really tried i could maybe muster up a modicum of offence on behalf of others, but i’d be being awkward just for the sake of it…

The shirt colour is a bit too ‘republican green’ and might cause offence or even outrage to some who live in my area. Im sure i could persuade be the local Orange Lodge to get behind me on that one.

Coolest monkey in the jungle? Jungles are warm so no need for a hoodie. Offended by unnecessary clothing? Are you with me nudists?

Or evolution suggest humans share an ancestry with apes. Apes/monkeys what’s the difference? (no need to answer that). If i was religious i could be offended by that as i’d believe God created man. Pretty sure i could get a good crowd to pray for the editor (or stone him)

You can pretty much find offence in anything if you try.

Quick anecdote. I once designed a logo for a local computer company. Based on the old emerald green/gold circuit boards incorporating the initials of the company’s name. I deliberately changed the colours so as not to incite the hatred of the local prods (no offence prods!) and the finished job looked pretty good. Customer was very happy and promptly paid. A few weeks later i got a call from the client asking me to change the logo. When i asked why he informed me a customer had told him the logo looked like a man shagging a boy from behind! Client couldn’t see it and neither did i but i changed it anyway (to a boy shagging a man 😀 To me it said more about the person who saw the filthy logo that it did about reality. That may or may not be the point.

I’m torn now between getting a t-shirt made up with

Coolest carrot in the allotment

Or

Daddy’s little shit bag.

Some people found it offensive

H&M stores in South Africa trashed over ‘racist’ hoodie – http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-africa-42675665

trailwagger – Member

Some people found it offensive

Just remembered my daughter does Monkeynastics once a week, there’s a black girl and a very dark asian in her class, they even give out badges with monkey on them.

Should I be outraged?

Should I be outraged?

I think you should – surely someone could come up with a better name than “monkeynastics”. That’s shite.

We have a meeting on Thursday, I’ll relay your comments. Verbatim.