I’m fairly sure the phrase ‘chop chop’ along with ‘chopsticks’ and ‘choppy seas’ aren’t inherently racist, as they are just words acquired from a different language, such is the way of the English language. I’m also pretty sure that they could be used in a racist manner though, which kind of cuts to the crux of this issue. There appears to be two types of racism being talked about here; deliberate racism of the ‘monkey football chant’ variety, and perceived racism, such as the cheeky monkey t shirt. I’m fairly sure both are wrong, but I’m also fairly sure that they are on a entirely different order of magnitude of wrongness to each other.

I agree, the t-shirt is more “bad taste” with racist connotations than outright racist.

I am not sure we need to keep educating them on terms that were used to abuse in the past and to rule then out for their future. Is it not better just to let them get on with it and the problem finally dies away?

I think about the young black kid in this picture who for all we know might have had a really great day doing a photoshoot. Now he is news for something he might not even understand. A young kid who might have even got a kick out of the comparison to being his favourite animal or something being told he shouldn’t wear it because if the colour of his skin.

Makes me sad for the youth to have the faults of their elders hanging over them.

That’s how I see it too and it saddens me for the same reasons

What does “show the race card” even mean?

Yeah, & ‘play the race card’, same really.
Happens a lot in the prison service.

‘Your’e picking on me cos I’m black/asian’

‘I’m not picking on you, I keep saying ‘no’ cos you keep asking for things you aren’t entitled to. & if you ask Officer Rahim he’ll say no as well, so sod off’

That sort of thing.

ah. Apologies for my sarcastic reply. I mentally inserted “you’ve” in front of your question rather than “I’ve”, which I guess is what you meant, and completely changes the meaning of what I thought you said.

I do that a lot. 😆

Yeah, I was surprised when I googled the etymology. Every day’s a school day I guess.

Me too but it seems to be the most common theory is that it’s pidgin Chinese. I’m not convinced that makes it racist or offensive given it just means hurry up.

In the context of this debate what do you now think of Kelvin MacKenzie’s comment about Ross Barkely (compared him to a Gorilla) that was considered by many as racist as Barkely’s father is from Nigeria even though MacKenzie claims he was not aware of this and visually his black african heritage is not apparent?

In the context of this debate what do you now think of Kelvin MacKenzie’s comment about Ross Barkely (compared him to a Gorilla) that was considered by many as racist as Barkely’s father is from Nigeria even though MacKenzie claims he was not aware of this and visually his black african heritage is not apparent?

It’s inconceivable that MacKenzie did not know that “gorilla” was a term of racist abuse.

It’s inconceivable that MacKenzie did not know that “gorilla” was a term of racist abuse.

No, that MacKenzie did not know that Barkely has a black father.

I’m struggling to find any **** to give on this “news”.

Life has got to be pretty good if people are finding the time to bicker over shit this inconsequential.

It reminds me of a skit on a Blak Twang album where some people on the tube are reproached by some heavy black youths for being racist after describing an Arsenal midfielder as a monkey.

Turns out they were discussing Martin Keown, causing everyone involved to have a good giggle

just as racist if they had used a white kid?

Life has got to be pretty good if people are finding the time to bicker over shit this inconsequential.

Welcome to living in the first world in 2018. We have very few real problems, no shortage of food and access to multiple news sources 24 hours a day. With this lack of real problems in the 1st world, the news channels go looking for news to fill the time/space.

Add in social media where everybody can voice their opinion and this is what we get.

Me too but it seems to be the most common theory is that it’s pidgin Chinese. I’m not convinced that makes it racist or offensive given it just means hurry up.

I wouldn’t have thought it “racist”, but I can imagine if it was historically used to Chinese slaves then offence may well be taken.

It’s not inherently racist, although like anything it can easily be used in a racist manner.

Has anyone on the thread claimed it is inherently racist? I may have missed it but if so we’ll have to start picketing soft-play centres called “Cheeky Monkeys” across the nation.

I wouldn’t have thought it “racist”, but I can imagine if it was historically used to Chinese slaves then offence may well be taken.

Was it though? I reallly couldn’t find much on it.

just as racist if they had used a white kid?

No, even if there is a history dating back thousands of years of its use a derogitory term.

Was it though? I reallly couldn’t find much on it.

I dunno, we need the contributor who posted about it to elaborate on his conversation really.

I the meantime I’m gonna play it safe.

Have Scouts banned woggles yet?

A young kid who might have even got a kick out of the comparison to being his favourite animal or something being told he shouldn’t wear it because if the colour of his skin.

This.

I have a young son and I’d guess about ten percent of his tops have a monkey on them as does his first bike[1] and a large percentage of his toys. The monkey image is ubiquitous in children’s clothes and ubiquitous as a term of endearment.

Sacking him from this photo shoot and replacing with a lad of different ethnicity would have been mental and racist.

Telling black kids they can’t wear monkey clothes is mental and racist.

He looks great in that top and I expect his parents/relations do call him a little monkey just like all other kids.

I really hope he never hears about this fuss, and I really hope that any publicity over this doesn’t stop kids wearing any top they want or playing with any toy they want.

I also hope advertizers don’t stop hiring non-white kids in case they attract this kind of bad publicity over some imagined faux pas.

[1] When I put that bike on freecycle do the STW race police think I should advertize it as ‘no black children please’???

H+M mega-dumb – me calling my kids monkeys has little bearing on the item of clothing and picture in question.

But uber-cool-singer-HM-model dresses like a binman (pre-empt apologies for any offended binmen).

How many of you would be happy to walk up to a black person in the street and say to their little kid “awwww you`re a cute little monkey arent you?”

I hope everyone would. I’d be mortified if anyone treated my lad differently on the grounds of race. I’m equally horrified that people are analysing the racial background of kids so they can talk to some of them differently.

But it is in common usage in a non racist or offensive manner and has been for years.

Good point. Is monkey really a racist term in this context? I’ve never heard it used in a racially derogative way, wheras in and out of nursery and school I hear it all the time as a term of endearment for a child. The dictionary doesn’t mention any negative connotations at all.

If JoJo Maman Bébé can flog truckloads of stuff with monkeys all over it it can’t be that racist, whatever the relative percentages of DNA the child wearing it is made up from.

Always referred to mine as ‘cheeky little monkeys’ as a term of endearment.
Don’t do it now because they’re too big and too old.

I had no idea ‘little monkey’ was a racist term. I thought it was to do with being restless/mischievous. Pretty sure my mum used to call me one, in fact…

‘Little monkey’ in isolation isn’t racist, but in the context of the H&M cock-up it most certainly could be seen to be racist.

Bloody hell.
I had no idea who “The Weeknd” was, not in a typical STW inverted down with the kids way, just simply hadn’t heard of the chap so just gave him a quick google.

So calling women b**** and referring to people as the ‘n’word is perfectly acceptable, but a t-shirt saying coolest monkey in the jungle isn’t?

What a ****.
Talentless insipid gobshite looking for publicity.

johndoh – Member

‘Little monkey’ in isolation isn’t racist, but in the context of the H&M cock-up it most certainly could be seen to be racist.

Perhaps by someone who was starved of oxygen at birth.

You’ve never heard it? Well that’s OK then

http://www.telegraph.co.uk/sport/football/competitions/premier-league/8898054/Former-Liverpool-star-John-Barnes-says-society-is-to-blame-for-racism-problem-that-football-just-cant-shift.html

Perhaps by someone who was starved of oxygen at birth.

Stay classy.

kenneththecurtain – Member

I had no idea ‘little monkey’ was a racist term.

It isn’t.

ransos – Member

Stay classy.

You’re right.
My Uncle was mentally disabled due to oxygen starvation at birth and he wouldn’t have been stupid enough to find offence in that t-shirt.

I’ll think of another way of putting it. 🙂

Perhaps by someone who was starved of oxygen at birth.

Knife > Heart

When i worked for Evans cycles, We had concession store within a larger Blacks store in York.

They (Blacks) put up large posters in the store of a 6-7 year old girls building a sand castle, with the slogan “Summer made Sexy”

I still think that was a lot worse than this balls-up by HM.

My nephews are really into jungle animals and i would buy them this hoodie if i saw it.

Singlespeed_Shep – Member

They (Blacks) put up large posters in the store of a 6-7 year old girls building a sand castle, with the slogan “Summer made Sexy”

It’s no wonder racism exists if the blacks are trying to sexualize our children.

t’s no wonder racism exists if the blacks are trying to sexualize our children.

Hahahaha 😆

😀
I’d best get to the pub before I’m put on the naughty step.

Has nobody thought to ask the monkees opinion on this? I want to know what Peter, Micky, Davey and Michael think about it.

They would be racist but they’re otherwise occupied.

Just seen this thread.

My take on it?

The advert guys are a bit naive when they put that lad in that particular hoodie!

Whether you consider it racist or not, stupid not to have even CONSIDERED that it has huge potential to be an issue!

Doh!

That said, I’ve never heard of the The Next Fortnite guy anyway??!! Lol 😀

Someone had better let Sainsbury’s know that the term Chop Chop is racist.

http://chopchopapp.co.uk

On some occassions I call my kids “little shits” and I would buy this:

The other day I was talking to a Middle Eastern guy about the Marathon Plus tyres. The silence that fell after I’ve said “they’re almost bombproof” was a bit awkward. I decided to carry on as usual. Anyway. Racism and all the others. I was called racist names and at some point I’ve realised it’s not my problem but the poor person’s that are trying to offend me using the simplest way possible. If people wouldn’t care about the “race card” would there still be racism? I used to call a friend of mine a certain name when I was a lot younger and a tad more stupid. One day he ignored all the crap I was naming him. The fun was over. Never called him a bad name again, wasn’t even considering substitutes.

chakaping – Member
Was it though? I reallly couldn’t find much on it.
I dunno, we need the contributor who posted about it to elaborate on his conversation really.

Hello!

Re: my “chop-chop” gaffe

I think it’s all been covered really. I said it to her because it’s something I do say from time-to-time, like the way that somebody might sometimes refer to a child as a cheeky-monkey. I’m happy that this is not inherently racist language, and saying it does not instantly make me a racist – but your own opinion may differ.

However, as soon as I said it (and she pulled a “WTF!” face), I realized that I’d just said it to an ethnically Chinese person – and (although I didn’t know for sure) the phrase was probably rooted in racism, or at least colonial-era language.

I immediately apologized, explaining that I said it without thinking. She was quite cool with it, but explained that she was bullied mercilessly growing up (she was the only non-caucasion in her school) and this was one of the expressions that was used to taunt her.

So I think there’s a clear parallel between this and the “little monkey” incident – neither are inherently racist, but they do come with lots of racist undertones – and so should probably be avoided.

Would call a black child a cheeky monkey? No. I wouldn’t say “chop-chop” (again) to a Chinese person either. It’d be great if those phrases didn’t carry racist undertones….. but the sad truth is that they do. Ignoring/not realizing that might not make you a racist – but it does make you a touch insensitive (or as me and my friend agreed: a bit of a muppet)