Any point appealing to redundancy ?

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  • Any point appealing to redundancy ?
  • kamikaze
    Member

    Been given formal redundancy today, but feel that the so-called points system that they used to compare people for redeployment has been used unfair. Main issue is that I do still not understand that one of the colleagues that has been redeployed in the available positions managed to score enough points to get redeployed – is for some unclear reason higher valued.

    Several colleges (3 so far of a formerly 20ish department – those are at the senior level and have been redeployed) have said they think it is wrong this person was redeployed instead of me (in other words: should not have scored better than me). In fact they think it is so unfair that I’ve not been given that job instead and offered to officially vouch for me.

    We have the same amount of experience in a specialist field that the company is moving into, so that can’t be the reason either. I know for a fact that the person in question has been told to put more effort in on more than one occasions. Also, since we’ve been working on the same projects a lot of the last years I’ve got a pretty good idea how supervisors rate me against that person (higher that is) and I know they mentioned some things about the person to the management as well.

    Any people on here been in similar situations ? If so, what are your experiences ? Is there any point in appealing – does it ever have any result ? Also, what have I got to lose ?
    How ‘high up’ can such an argument go ? Management’s decision final ? It were the managers that took the decision.

    FunkyDunc
    Member

    In my experience the point scoring thing is just used to try and calm the staff, and make it sound fair.

    They will know exactly who they want to get rid of, having been involved in the redundancy process as an accountant you get asked to cost redundancies, and project forecast etc, and I’ve never yet been asked to do one on a basis of it could be him/her. Redundancy tends to be calculated very precisely.

    chewkw
    Member

    Appeal as you have nothing to loose but be diplomatic in your approach.

    So-called point system was already deployed at a company where my friend’s wife worked in September and she was made redundant in November.

    Oh she worked for the big four/six financial company at Canary Wharf by the way.

    🙁

    Premier Icon crazy-legs
    Subscriber

    I tried to appeal the points score thing based on values outside of that which I didn’t feel had been taken into account. It didn’t work but on the plus side it made them waste their time and it also counted as one of the 6 things I have to do per week to be able to claim my benefits! 😉

    You are allowed to see your points score and also the criteria/matrix they scored you on. You’re also allowed to have representation in any meeting – I took my Line Manager into the meetings with me. HR should be present and should be making more or less verbatim notes throughout the meeting. You’re also allowed to see a copy of those notes.

    Best of luck with it but don’t hold out too much hope.

    Premier Icon Sandwich
    Subscriber

    If you can show bias/unfairness at appeal and it does not work you are then free to seek a tribunal hearing. You should take professional advice at this point but usually you should receive an enhanced severance package to make you go away.
    Only you can work out the cost/benefit of the last step.
    Good Luck

    ibis
    Member

    No i am afraid the points system is there to give the impression that they are being fair, last company i worked for used to used this as an excuse to get rid of people, i knew a chap who got the push and had an inpecable attendance record and was well liked, the guy the company kept on in his place didnt. I got the feeling the manager felt threatened and used the opportunity to get rid of a potential future rival. The point is its a job, and if they have made a decision to get rid of you do you really want to keep working for these people.??

    kamikaze
    Member

    quote: ‘The point is its a job, and if they have made a decision to get rid of you do you really want to keep working for these people.?? ‘

    In the current climate I prefer still to be in a job, even it is that one and look for other jobs from that position rather than from an unemployed position (from money point of view as well as how it looks to potential future employers).

    ex-pat
    Member

    I’ve had the dubious pleasure of supporting someone in thier appeal (sit in and be a witness).
    Turned out that the fellow had a point, so it was reversed.
    Thing was, they then re-deployed him to a lower salary position – or would have if he hadn’t walked out having made his point.
    So, yeah, appeal, expect it to be a tough time though. And consider if you want to work there (if there are alternatives).
    Good luck!

    DM52
    Member

    I fortunately have not been put in that situation yet however I have seen similar things happen in order to keep a ‘balance’ to the departments structure. Whilst it is all very well taking the cream of the crop if you have a department comprised of all seniors the scope for career development is vastly reduced. It is also worth bearing in mind that the person re-deployed instead of yourself might have a significantly lower salary than yourself which results in a better saving for the company when you look at the books.

    My advice if you feel you need to appeal is to seek legal advice to clearly establish if you have a case or not and in the mean time carry on with the job search. Best of luck and who knows, the new job might be much better than the one you have just left. 🙂

    dooosuk
    Member

    If you appeal, doesn’t your notice of redundancy get delayed until the appeal has been resolved, which thereby allows you to earn an extra week(s) pay (or however long it takes HR to sort it all out)?

    Or am I mistaken in thinking that?

    Premier Icon Gee-Jay
    Subscriber

    My understanding is that a points system has to be employed so that if they are taken to a tribunal they can prove a “fair” process has been followed. However I think that they can pick the point scoring devices to achieve what they want so they can be very biased.

    It would be worth looking into further though, if your scores on the points being used are not correct (or the other person has been given higher for no real reason) then you may have a case.

    Premier Icon chakaping
    Subscriber

    At my former workplace in the last-but-one round of redundancies, several people asked to be re-scored or contested their scoring – and at least one of them is still there now as a result.

    Appeal and cause a fuss by all means, but don’t make it personal and concentrate on your plus points rather than your rival’s negatives. Too easy for HR to brush you off with “we can’t discuss other employees” otherwise.

    Get them to break the scoring down for you, contest anything you reasonably can.

    uplink
    Member

    I’ve been in meetings in the past where there’s been discussion of tailoring the points system to favour certain employees &/or discriminate against others.
    Not saying it went on in your case but it’s pretty common.

    Premier Icon pb2
    Subscriber

    Appeal, you have nothing to lose and potentially everything to gain.

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