Another Cyclist Dead. Another Ruling of Accidental Death.

I am going to make a collection of “cyclist dismount” signs I think. No legal standing and often in really stupid places

brooess – Member

So long as growth in cycling continues (which, looking at oil prices, looks likely), then the balance of power will eventually fall in our favour…

Oil prices have been increasing steadily for years now, with only minimal growth in cycling. Look at the recent idiocy over petrol shortages to see how set in our ways we are.

The cities that have seen growth are ones which have terrible traffic, flat terrain, terrorist attacks on public transport (London) or have actually thrown a relatively small amount of money at cycling, including some infrastructure (Bristol, London again).

Attitude changes are great, but it’s relatively easy not to neck five pints before driving, or connect a buckle at the start of a journey. Both hit the self-preservation button nicely.

And people still do both! I remember one mate of my dad’s who always used to connect the seat belt in his Jaguar (to stop the warning beep), then sit on top of the thing.

glitchybump

Bez – Member

“If you are serious about improving cycle safety you have to take away some of the road from cars and give it to bikes. “

I disagree emphatically.

On my commute to work I pass several houses, all with full driveways, who stick their extra vehicle on the street, in a dotted cycle lane. Would there be any objections if their right to do this was taken away?

Road engineering of which cycle lanes are a part is absolutely central to the debate. Its only a part of it but its an important part.

Let’s be realistic though – it’s not going to happen.
My town and surrounding areas had a big push for cycle lanes over the past 10 years, but I think I can accurately say no cyclists were consulted in their usefulness. Some are on footpaths – yay, separate cycles from cars! but… it’s about a mile of footpath past a SCHOOL! Kids all over the path = unusable.
Others, where the road is wide enough – big wide red paint.. the road narrows.. “End Of Cycle Lane” ! Miles of utterly utterly pointless red paint.

Prime example here

Follow that road in either direction and you’ll see the red paint stop where the road gets narrower and more dangerous (and down hill!). I used to ride that road before there were any lanes painted and it was perfectly safe.

DEz – I agree with you – it needs to be done properly not thast sort of stupidity.

However it is a part of the solution – road engineering in various forms. along with legislative changes and education

Would there be any objections if their right to do this was taken away?

Undoubtedly there would be from the residents.

But you’re absolutely right: cars (legally but annoyingly) parked in cycle lanes is one of the things that often renders them completely useless.

Worth a read: Jon Snow’s take on yesterday’s Government inquiry into cycle safety.

As usual, a lot of words but little sign of action or will amongst those in government.

However, if one of my child cyclists were to overtake a parked car I would expect them to look ahead and behind first to judge if it was safe to do so. With a road narrowing and a car behind I would have expected them not to pull out to overtake

I don’t agree with teaching this. I take your point about staying out of hospital and the lack of experience of the kids, but this approach just panders to the keep cyclist out of the way attitude and isn’t helpful to the cause or to the individual cyclist riding like that, as they won’t learn to ride assertively and defensively. Cyclist have a right to use the road, to claim a lane when necessary, and should be trained to do that. They shouldn’t be expected or trained to stay out of the way, only making progress when there is nothing coming from behind that would have to slow down and/or go around them – IMO.

I agree feenster. But wow, what a difficult job: teaching kids to cycle safely on the road…

On my commute to work I pass several houses, all with full driveways, who stick their extra vehicle on the street, in a dotted cycle lane. Would there be any objections if their right to do this was taken away?

Im just as guilty of this as everyone else.

But I do often think about this nessarily from a cycling point of view but a general point of view.

It appears that our roads are all very narrow but in many cases this isnt true there are just parked cars.

If in 1940s/1950s they had made it illegal to park on the road, unless expressly allowed, I dont imagine there would have been much of a fuss.

People would have realised they needed to build driveways or some way of storing cars on their land before buying one.

However you now cant go back.

People can be favourable about measures to roll back on-street parking or decrease the amount of carriageway given over to road traffic.

This was built near where I used to live. It used to be a normal two-lane residential street:

http://www.homezones.org.uk/challenge/southville.htm

People were a bit ambivalent about it, but an independent study also found that they recognised the benefits in terms of calmer traffic, more pavement space, etc.

Stuff like this works better than parking permit schemes or double yellow lines because you get something back in return. It might be your road not being used as a rat-run any more, an increase in the value of your house, or just some nice planters outside your front door, but you (and your family) get something in return for losing road capacity and parking space.

Interestingly, here in Newcastle they’ve just been modifying this junction on Scotswood Road.

http://g.co/maps/qnfjd

What they’ve done, is to add a splitter island to separate the right turning traffic from the two lanes of traffic going straight on. Obviously, there’s now not enough room for the painted cycle lane, so it’s been removed approaching the junction.

They have added a drop kerb to allow bikes in the cycle lane to transfer onto the shared use path, but anybody that decides they want to stay on the road is now going come into conflict with cars in the inside lane.

Can’t really blame parked cars on this one.

Interestingly, here in Newcastle they’ve just been modifying this junction on Scotswood Road.

Ooh that’s part of my route. But I use the shared-use pavement. 😀

No idea why anyone tries to mix it on that dual carriageway when the pavement is good, wide and normally deserted (as shown nicely in that Street View).

It’s part of my route too.

I mainly use the road, as I don’t like having to stop at the crossing points on the shared use path. The length of road from that junction into town is actually OK – the road was designed with the cycle lane so it’s plenty wide enough for both lanes and the cycle lane without conflict. Well, until a new splitter island is introduced, anyway…

The length from that junction to Scotswood Bridge is another matter (although I still use it…)

Feenster – we try and teach the kids common sense and staying safe within their ability. Some are as young as 9 and really cannot judge speed or distance, defensive riding is not really an option for them. When kids are a little older and some can then be quite capable, we will teach them more assertive riding. Things like signal right turns major to minor where they will need the skills of judging speed and distance and be assertive. Not all kids I get are capable of this though, some can’t even ride a bike effectively…..yes even at 9, 10 or 11 years old.

Also, the roads are a complicated place, people probably take about 45 hours of lessons to learn to drive (I know, some take a lot less, but you get my point). I get 6 hours with the kids, I try my best, but can’t possibly prepare them for everything, it is just a starting point.

I also aim to bring as many kids back as I take out.

I think far more cyclist training is needed, most people don’t become brilliant drivers without training either. And an ‘experienced’ driver or cyclist is not necessarily a good one. I know many people who are very experienced drivers, but nor really any good.

I mainly use the road, as I don’t like having to stop at the crossing points on the shared use path.

Hmm. Doesn’t bother me. There are only 3 on my stretch and more often than not the road traffic is stopped at the red lights anyway so I figure it makes little odds.

the more I think about this case the worse it gets. If I was to force another car of the road as I was overtaking because I clipping an on coming car and the occupants were killed. I don’t think the system would have given a collective shrug of the shoulders (even if I never exceeded the speed limit in the incident) and stamped the case file “Shit Happens Case Closed”. The only assumption you can make is as cyclist we have no more rights than a stray dog.