Hi, apologies in advance for a boring tubeless question – if it helps, I have read every STW thread prior to this and found them very useful in getting me to the point I am now questioning!

Background:
First attempt at tubeless, (this is for the Solaris I am slowly building).
New wheels (Hunt XC wide 29er)
New Tyres (Nobby Nic)
The wheels came taped and with tubeless valves.

Front wheel went perfectly first time. I got it seated and inflated without any drama. It stayed inflated for two days at which point I added sealant and it still hasn’t lost any pressure. Made me wonder why I hadn’t gone tubeless years ago.

Rear wheel, no problem getting it seated, but wouldn’t hold air for more than a few minutes – could hear it escaping past the valve stem. Checked the tape more carefully and even though delivered pre-taped – it was full of wrinkles and generally not as well fitted as it could have been. Since then I have:

Taped over the top of that with electrical tape (nope – just as bad)

Removed all the tape and started from scratch with Lifeline tubeless rim tape – wider than the inner so it runs bead to bead. Better but still leaked

Taped for a third time , left with inner tube overnight (after repairing the pinch flats – twice), still leaked.

Kept this round of tape, but added an old bit of inner tube between a new valve stem and rim as a gasket, dipped in Stans. Now it is definitely the best it has been – but still leaking enough to be flat after about 10 minutes. Suspect it is not really the valve seating that’s the problem but the tape still.

In my mind it should be as the front wheel was – capable of staying inflated without sealant for at least 24 hours, so I should try taping again – is that right?

Or am I being too puritanical and I need to add sealant to seal up whatever little gap(s) there must be somewhere?

It’s quite expensive and messy to waste a load of sealant if it’s just going to result in me re-taping it anyway. I would like to avoid Gorilla tape at this point or bodging with o-rings, silicone around the valve etc. ’cause it feels like it is just setting me up for different problems down the line.

One thing I have right now is time! What would STW do?

If it’s just a small leak then wack in some sealant and let it do its job.

How are you applying the tape? I use Tesa 4289 tape (same as stans) and when putting it onto the rim you need to be stretching it as much as you can when applying each section. When you do this the tape will sit into the rim bed and there should be zero ripples anywhere.

If you’re not getting a sweat on when pulling the tape tight/stretching it, it’s not tight enough.

Don’t have an answer I’m afraid but I’ve had loads of problems trying to get Nobby Nic’s to seal, to the point where I’ve given up now. Done plenty of other tyres, both tubeless ready & traditional with no issues at all but Nobby Nic’s have never worked for me, so I’m really impressed you’ve got one to work.

I’ve now swapped my NN’s out for Butchers on the same wheels and they inflated without leaks immediately. No idea why I can’t get the Nic’s to work when everything else does.

As above: fit the tape properly and make sure there’s a good overlap when you finish. Make the smallest hole possible for the valve – use the valve itself to tunnel through. Fit the tyre and add sealant. Go for a ride.

How did you push the valve through the tape? I make the smallest cut possible with a bradawl, then push the valve itself through
I find the valve has to be tightened quite a bit to seal properly. Is it just a case of needing to turn the locking collar half a turn more?

I have the same issue with tubeless to be honest. One wheel generally goes up without any bother & gives me false hope that i am now a tubeless set-up god, before the second wheel has me questioning my sanity & trying really hard not to throw the wheel across the garden.

Sometimes when they start going down you just need to ride about a bit with sealant in.

It’s more art than science I think.

How are you applying the tape?

Really tight! But I take your point and it is the most common theme on these threads. I have a concern that my interpretation of pulling it tight is focusing too much on the bead and not enough on holding it into the well of the rim, so at the end of the process the ‘loosest’ bit is the important bit over the spokes. With that said my last attempt ‘looked’ perfect with no bubbles or wrinkles. I think I will re-tape again and really focus on the fit to the well of the rim (quite deep on the Hunts).

so I’m really impressed you’ve got one to work.

Thanks – so was I! Damned false hope!

How did you push the valve through the tape?

I made a tiny hole with the tip of a very sharp pencil and pushed through from there. It’s a good fit – but willing to accept it could still be the source of the problem. It’s certainly tight enough.

Sometimes when they start going down you just need to ride about a bit with sealant in.

It’s more art than science I think.

Only one problem with that – I was determined to sort the wheels first, so I could do a rough assembly of the headset\fork and get the bike fit right – therefore, I don’t have a bike to ride yet! I might stick a tube in before the next tape attempt, finish the rest of the build and come back to the wheel last, (but it annoys a little OCD part of me)!

Thanks as ever all; helps confirm that I won’t have much to lose re-taping one more time…

You need to put sealant for it to stay up. I have no issues with tubeless but no tire I’ve got would stay up for long without sealant.

Tip for when applying the tape – get some stuck down so it doesn’t rip off (and hold it with your thumb), then get about 18 inches or so unrolled, and stretch this part, pull it proper hard – and with it stretched, apply it to the rim.

This is a good video showing how much pressure to use – i.e. lots! The tape should be tight enough that it goes into the channel without any pressing down.

Also, start before the valve, and finish after. I’ve never had an issue seating tyres like this, if they don’t seat it’s normally that they’re roo loose and so need an extra wrap of tape. And as above, no tyre will stay inflated for long without sealant. if it pops into the rim then that’s the hard bit done. With sealant in, give the wheel a few revolutions, and then turn it on it’s side, and swish the sealant round everywhere, any small leaks will then stop.

You need to put sealant for it to stay up. I have no issues with tubeless but no tire I’ve got would stay up for long without sealant.

This – once you’ve “popped” it onto the rim, and it stays up for a couple of minutes I think you’re good to go for sealant.

If you’re not riding, bounce/rotate it around a bit to make sure sealant is getting where it needs to go. You can also put the wheel on it each side for an hour or so.

I’ve got a couple of Nobby Nics on my FS 29er – 2.35 on the front, 2.25 on the back. Don’t remember any massive sweary moments doing it last summer.

That said, I have tried to put an old NN on a new rim and it really wasn’t having it – I think that tyre was just done though…

@ta11pau1
Thanks for the video – that’s a pretty clear method to follow. I’ll give it a go for one more taping.

Appreciate the comments about getting some sealant in – agree, it might work now it stays up for a few minutes – I’m just annoyed the first one stayed up for days with no sealant! I’ll have another run at the taping and take it from there. It’s the first time I’ve done this, so don’t mind the frustration as a way of really understanding what works and what doesn’t – especially while I can’t ride it anyway. Hopefully I will finish the build for lockdown end and be all good to enjoy it!

One staying up, the other going down is classic Schwalbe tubeless for me, I see it regularly, some stay up forever, others are still slowly going down 2 or 3 weeks later.

Try using a tube? I’m not trying to provoke but if something isn’t broke – don’t fix it!

Or am I being too puritanical and I need to add sealant to seal up whatever little gap(s) there must be somewhere?

That’s the entire point of the sealant. It’s never going to stay up without it, it’s not designed to because the designers know there’s going to be sealant in there.

To seal the valve, put it at the lowest point, wait for a few seconds for the sealant to pool then flip the wheel over. It’ll douse the valve in sealant from the inside, and you’ll hear the hiss stop.

Tubeless can sometimes throw up inconsistencies. I fitted 2 new tyres a few weeks ago.
Rear went straight on, inflated and haven’t touched it since
Front just would not inflate, the tyre just didn’t want to go anywhere near the rim. Broke my airshot type pump as I tried so many times. Was just about to give up and put a tube in to get it to seat so took tyre off but because the tyre was so tight I would have probably pinched the tube so put tyre back on and tried again. Pumped straight up with just track pump on first go!
Put in some sealant and it has been fine ever since and haven’t even added any more air after 3 weeks.

Try using a tube? I’m not trying to provoke but if something isn’t broke – don’t fix it!

It’s the first time I have had tubeless rims + tubeless tyres + loads of time where I can’t ride! Seemed a good opportunity to try something new (to me). I really like trying to understand how things work even if ultimately I decide it’s not worth the hassle.

Thanks for the tips all.

I’ve never installed tape up anything like as tight as ta11pau1 suggests, and it’s never effected the success (or otherwise of my tubeless set ups) In order, failures are normally:

unseated tyre leaking

leaking tyre wall that just needs a bunch of sealant sloshed around (ie go for a ride)

Schwalbe tyres

valve not seated firmly enough.

I’ve always found schwalbe tyres pretty easy to set up tubeless. Spesh even easier but the sidewalls leak like crazy.

Built some news wheels last week and set them up tubeless using Lifeline tape & valves and stans sealant. Spesh  purgatory on the rear and Schwalbe HD on the front. I had to retape the front one as I’d got it off centre but just whacked another layer over the top and it went on fine. Make sure the tape is well up into the side of the rim so the tyre bead has a nice tight fit, then pump until you hear the cracks and pops! If you can’t put sealant in through the valve, hang the wheel up and undo a small amount of tyre bead then squirt the sealant in then release the tyre lever. Pump again and give it all a good shake. Then ride if you can.

Yes you are expecting too much by expecting a tubeless system designed to work with sealant to then work without sealant .

As above. Hardly any tyres will stay up without sealant. Your front was a lucky one. Usually you need to ride on the wheel for a bit to actually get the sealant to properly disperse.

As above. Hardly any tyres will stay up without sealant. Your front was a lucky one. Usually you need to ride on the wheel for a bit to actually get the sealant to properly disperse

Update: with all this in mind, I left the tape as it was, chucked some sealant in, span it in the frame for a bit and so far so good! I need to leave it overnight to be sure – but at least I can’t hear any air escaping now.

The taping lessons were still valuable and mean that when it comes to maintenance in the future I won’t be afraid to get stuck in.

Now I can move onto trial fit the fork and get the hacksaw and files out!

So thanks for the reassurance to just give it a go everyone.

The taping lessons were still valuable

Ta11Pau1’s especially, I’ve saved that video for the next wheel I tape up.

It might well go flat overnight, even with sealant, but after riding it should be ok.

Tyres are still up! Thanks for the help all.