Please do post up the link….and actually read what I have said.

How much faster are aero wheels? (video)

This is the link..

You said

Of course weight matters on climbs, pro rata against power, but nothing more

And as you know higher power to weight equals faster … So lighter is faster. Whay else do you expect I was to take from that?

You also said..

The gains from aero wheels are so small they cannot be felt

The link shows that they are not so small, I’d definitely feel the effect of having to put in more effort over a long ride to get that extra 2km/h.

Do you actually have aero wheels may I ask?

I said

Weight makes very little difference to speed

I didn’t say no difference.

I also said you wouldn’t feel the difference <span style=”font-size: 0.8rem;”>with aero wheels, and I stand by that. You might measure it with speed (i doubt it), more likely with power of course, but that’s different</span>

I feel it by being less tired through less effort…

Unless of course you put in the same effort and just go further/faster.

If you mean the feel of the bike, then yes I agree .

Cool, ta for the vid too.

I have multiple pairs of aero wheels, but they’re tubs. Because I use them for racing.

If training alone or with teammates, I ride reasonably light, comfortable tubeless hoops. Most of the time, I would train on my 1* cyclo-cross bike with gravel tyres. Much more comfortable.

Yes, aero wheels (if matched with the correct tyre and pressure and frame combination) can bring you some speed gains that you can quantify. However, you cannot FEEL them. You will feel geometry, wide soft tyres and lightweight components, but the aero wheel? Only in perception.

The only justification is fashion or hunting Strava KOMs. Which personally, on this front, I see to be for posers. If you ride a fast bike, you should ride fast and race it. Otherwise, ride a comfortable bike and stop trying to persuade passers by you’re nibali. If you actually want to GET faster, buy a power meter and employ a coach. And do some races.

The gains from aero wheels are so small they cannot be felt.

By anyone under any circumstances? That’s a very bold statement.

The only justification is fashion or hunting Strava KOMs. Which personally, on this front, I see to be for posers. If you ride a fast bike, you should ride fast and race it. Otherwise, ride a comfortable bike and stop trying to persuade passers by you’re nibali. If you actually want to GET faster, buy a power meter and employ a coach. And do some races.

So there is no reason to have some aero wheels except for racing or posing?

I have a power meter, and have used a coach, but I don’t “race”.  I do long distance events, challenging myself.  Sorry I don’t fit into your idea of what is acceptable.

I stand by that njee, the human body is a rubbish measuring device.

“The only justification is fashion or hunting Strava KOMs. Which personally, on this front, I see to be for posers. If you ride a fast bike, you should ride fast and race it. Otherwise, ride a comfortable bike and stop trying to persuade passers by you’re nibali. If you actually want to GET faster, buy a power meter and employ a coach. And do some races.”

I race a comfort bike with 60 mm carbon rims. I “won” a sportive yesterday on a race bike with 60/90 mm rims. I’m a coach. Ride what you want, where you want

I agree it’s hard to feel the difference, but even simple timings will show that my HED Jet 6/9 combination is faster than a set of Open Pros. About a minute over 40 km for most riders here, and two of you are a 19 minute man.

They are also great handling in the wind.

you can however gat bigger gains from a skinsuit!

I stand by that njee, the human body is a rubbish measuring device.

You feel it when you are blown into a Bush by a cross wind  . although tbf that can’t really be seen as a benefit  😉

Cool, ta for the vid too

It was pretty eye opening I thought. Like you I thought there would be a very minor increase in speed. Seeing that vid persuaded me to get some!

Although if I’m brutally honest.  The biggest factor was that they look ace.. And that alone means I want to ride my bike more.

I had previously been going on the video where they do a similar test but on aero frame, sperm helmet, wheels and tri bars.  I don’t think wheels came out so well, but it is older IIRC

EDIT here we go

https://www.bikeradar.com/road/gear/article/how-aero-is-aero-19273/

10W @ 40kph – but for full on aero wheels against “regular” aero wheels

Ha, I sought that article yesterday too, the aero benefit of wheels is derived as well, and by their own admission based on one test with one person.

I do agree with you that people are terrible measuring devices, I didn’t realise you were talking “feel” in the most literal sense, as opposed to “tell the difference”. It’s obviously a very difficult thing to prove though, as in the right circumstances there will be quantifiable evidence that they’re faster, so disproving that someone can ‘feel’ that is very difficult.

Personally if someone wants aero wheels then let them crack on. If someone wants a faired recumbant with Di2 to ride to the pub then equally, crack on! I’ve got a pair of 38s on one bike and some 50s on another. The ‘aero’ bike with the 50s is slower than the not-aero bike with 38s, the 50s are noticeably more of a handful in strong crosswinds (the 38s are no different to a very shallow wheel in that respect), but not horrifically so. I’ve not done a road race in about 6 years, and when I did I swapped to aluminium wheels because I didn’t want to trash my nice carbon ones in a crash in a crit!

Remember to take your mitts off. The MIT Cycling Club did some wind tunnel testing a few years ago, and found that wearing gloves created more drag than a non-aero front wheel. If you are not fitting tri-bars, the biggest gain you can get, by some margin, is wearing an aero helmet, but there don’t seem to be a lot of discussions about which TT helmet to use with your road bike!

I think people like the appearance of deep section aero rims, and they “look fast”, but in reality, the gains are tiny. If you are not racing, I wouldn’t worry much about a few mm of rim depth.

> I “won” a sportive yesterday

Yr honour, the prosecution rests.

> So there is no reason to have some aero wheels except for racing or posing?

Yeah pretty much.

ok, I’m sure my logic is flawed here, but here goes. The savings are marginal gains at best it appears, and you’d not notice it….or would you?  IF the energy you saved due to aero gain from the wheels was an average of 5w over a 3hr ride (assuming flat terrain for the sake of argument), then that saving is equivalent to the additional energy needed to carry 10kg up 550m of ascent. If you’re more conservative and assume an average of 2w of aero gain then its 10kg up 220m of ascent.

Think I’d notice carrying and extra 10kg up 220m of ascent. 10kg is almost the weight difference between my mountain bike and my road bike – actually maybe 1.5 – 2kg more than the weight difference between my MTB and road bike. I climb alot on my MTB and know it requires a significant amount more energy to climb than my road bike (ok rolling resistance to take into account) and is much slower than my road bike.

Or another way of thinking about it is like completing the 3hr road ride with aero wheels at the same speed as I would with non-aero wheels, then, to ensure I expended the same energy as doing the ride with non-aero wheels, at the end of the ride pick up 10kg and climb 220m – I’d definitely notice that. I could do it, but I’d notice it.

So next question, what wheels?

The Roval CLX 50 look good, but they’re specialized.

the Industry Nine i9.45 also look very good, but not sure on availability in the UK.

Both of those offer good internal width for 28 tyres, and don’t cost the earth.

 10kg is almost the weight difference between my mountain bike and my road bike – actually maybe 1.5 – 2kg more than the weight difference between my MTB and road bike.

How heavy is your mountain bike!! 😬 ? Do you mean pounds?

I think it does all add up.. You can go the same distance in the same time for less effort, or faster and further for the same effort which is appealing to non racers.

I would not have them as my only wheels if I’m honest, mine are rim braked and you notice that in the wet.. I would not want to take them down an alp on a rainy day! But if you can afford them, As a luxury then I don’t think you would regret it. They don’t transform your ride, but then again most upgrades don’t.. Only one I can think of that I couldn’t live without is a dropper post!

For me one of the biggest things is that they look awesome on a carbon bike. .And if you like the look of your bike you are more likely to ride it.. Or at least I am.