27.5/Dirt a bit biased?

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  • 27.5/Dirt a bit biased?
  • Tom_W1987
    Member

    Is it me or is Steve Jones pedalling the hype a bit?

    Team CRC Nukeproof 27.5 DH Bike | Rider reactions

    Premier Icon kayak23
    Subscriber

    He has been for ages now. Does me nut in… 🙄

    Tom_W1987
    Member

    Yeah, even Pagey who has a vested interest in selling his 27.5 inch bikes seems a bit uncomfortable over the issue.

    rs
    Member

    I don’t have a problem with it for the general public, never tried it, but if it is actually faster, at some point all the racers will be on it and then its back to square one, advantage is removed, except they are all riding clunkier big wheels.

    Premier Icon kimbers
    Subscriber

    For a while Jones was very anti 27.5

    If we assume that newer bikes are faster (and looking at a modern bike v a 10 year old one they probably are) then new 27.5 bikes will be faster than old 26 bikes
    And even nico reckonned big wheels = faster in races

    Ultimately his favourite bike is a 29er anyway

    His obsession with bikes for taller riders is just silly tho

    Premier Icon Northwind
    Subscriber

    He’s well and truly drunk the kool-aid… the last issue was hilarious, telling world cup racers how they’d be faster on 650b. Between that, and obsessing about how big XL bikes are… Well, it’s a strange development from The Man Who Cannot State A Clear Opinion 😆

    Premier Icon chakaping
    Subscriber

    I watched about half that video last night, interested to find out more about NP’s take on 650b for DH.

    Did they reach a conclusion in the end? Pagey just kept saying “we haven’t tested them yet”, with Jones saying “yeah, but they’ll be faster won’t they?”. I got fed up and stopped watching. It was a bit awkward.

    Will there be another instalment when they have tested them against the 26in bikes?

    So many questions.

    Premier Icon Rusty Spanner
    Subscriber

    Not just Dirt.

    What MTB are the worst.
    A couple of unbelievably patronising pro 650B articles by Jo Burt and Matt Letch, people I previously had much respect for, has put me off both the mag and the authors.

    This issue has really changed my opinion of the MTB media.
    Previously, I was a generally a believer in the impatiality of our magazines.

    I don’t believe a word they say anymore.

    Some interesting comments by Jenn in her pick of the year article on here as well.

    brakes
    Member

    the fact is even if 27.5 was better, it’s corporate marketing and bullshit like this from people who supposedly know they’re onions and from sponsored riders who are told what to say that just makes me very cynical about the whole thing.

    hora
    Member

    Steve Jones can love it or loath or even something else.

    What I’d prefer they did do is stop skimping on content/mag-thickness.

    Its insulting. Maybe they get coffee-table types nowadays but wheres the bloody VFM?

    Tom_W1987
    Member

    I’m not even sure why Steve actually posted the video, it does neither his reputation or the industries reputation any good.

    Premier Icon Northwind
    Subscriber

    MBR had a good one this month too, testing the 650b Orange Five vs a 26er. The geometry on the two is night and day, so naturally they ride differently, but all the good stuff ends up attributed to the wheels.

    Premier Icon AlexSimon
    Subscriber

    Surely at world cup level, there’s a need for the max suspension travel that you can get.
    10″ seems fairly common.
    With a 27.5 wheel, are they going to have to have 9″ of travel?
    How do they judge the balance?

    Yes, the interview was annoying – Pagey doing well to not fall for it.

    Tom_W1987
    Member

    What’s even funnier is that yet unamed 650b downhill bike is actually a Mega AM with an angleset and a 175mm boxxer.

    slackalice
    Member

    The journo’s, especially in WMB, were just as evangelistic / arse-lickingly nauseous with 29’rs a few year’s ago. And I’m slightly embarrassed to admit that I let that be the main reason I decided not to go 29, so I relate to the various reluctance to embrace 650B when such is occurring again.

    It strikes me of trying too hard to brown-nose their way to a ‘press camp’ or media launch, or looking to find another job within the industry.

    Its their job, apparently 😕

    Premier Icon bigjim
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    That pukenroof is one fugly bike.

    Premier Icon Northwind
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    AlexSimon – Member

    Surely at world cup level, there’s a need for the max suspension travel that you can get.

    You’d think so, but Aaron Gwin says he didn’t use the full travel of his bike once in the 2012 season, and despite comments at the time, his stiff setup isn’t actually uncommon.

    Premier Icon kimbers
    Subscriber

    Tom_W1987 – Member
    What’s even funnier is that yet unamed 650b downhill bike is actually a Mega AM with an angleset and a 175mm boxxer.

    well it does seem to imply they are looking to PMB, a course that has seen a lot of AM kit on it because it has some pedally bits, dropper posts etc

    brendog tweeted recently about using a genius LT there

    Premier Icon ratherbeintobago
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    The Man Who Cannot State A Clear Opinion

    Is that because of the appalling standard of his written English, especially for one who makes his living as a journalist?

    AlexSimon – Member
    Surely at world cup level, there’s a need for the max suspension travel that you can get.
    10″ seems fairly common.

    Only the V10 really, and that’s really progressive, you’d have to hit the ground hard to bottom those last 2″ out. Most are 8″ or thereabouts, and the chainstay length is long enough already to accomodate the ‘big’ wheels.

    hora
    Member

    Said it before…let the dust settle thrn..

    Buy secondhand

    kudos100
    Member

    It is comical how much bollocks comes out of his mouth.

    “27.5 wheels are faster” says mid pack rider and below par journalist Steve Jones. “We haven’t tested them yet” says ex world cup racer and team manager Nigel Page.

    “But you’re going to be at disadvantage”

    Jesus, pipe the **** down Jones, the 27.5 evangelicalism works up until you start talking with elite riders who test everything before making conclusions.

    dannyh
    Member

    FFS.

    Does anyone else remember about five years ago when everything was about rear suspension layout? Four bar, faux bar, single pivot, floating drivetrain, virtual axle paths and dw links etc etc ad nauseam.

    Now it’s just all just 29 versus 27.5 and you’re not a mountain biker if you have 26″ inch wheels. Hardly any mention of suspension layouts because that horse has already been flogged to death.

    It’s the same old bullshit as you get from all industries. Take golf. The only thing that sell a set of clubs to most people is the driver. They all dream of smashing 350 yard drives (despite playing off of double figure handicaps and losing at least ten quids worth of golf balls every round). Gimmicks mixed with some cutting edge stuff that will only really benefit the very elite level participants.

    In ‘protest’ I ride a lovely steel 26er hardtail. And guess what, I absolutely love it.

    JCL
    Member

    Can’t wait for Mitch to podium at PMB on the E29. The Internet will explode.

    Premier Icon rOcKeTdOg
    Subscriber

    thing is though, the bigger wheel is faster, you can argue it isn’t until you run out of places to buy 26″ stuff but in the end they are.
    time to join the 21st century guys*

    *if any bike company is out there looking for new staff, see i am ace at this marketing bullshit thing, employ me!

    dannyh
    Member

    Oh and another thing. I distinctly remember mbr doing a ten biggest failures in mountain bikes a few years back.

    29ers were in there along with dual control shifters, softtails and other laughing stock fare.

    So what’s changed? Well I think the manufacturers pushing it and putting the arm on not so impartial journos might just have something to do with it. The journos will claim that the bikes have evolved to accommodate the wheel size so much better these days, but what they really mean is Giant and Trek etc said we have to push this now, or we’ll lose loads of advertising revenue. Amazingly all the magazines have slavishly toed the line, quelle surprise.

    And the standard of most ‘journalism’ in mountain bike mags wouldn’t be out of place on 80s kids show ‘Press Gang’. Unfortunately they are mostly just industry shills with too much at stake to be impartial. Singletrack excepted of course 😉

    “27.5 wheels are faster” says mid pack rider

    Short memory or are you just a whippersnapper?

    https://www.rootsandrain.com/rider1470/steven-jones-vet/results/

    Still bollocks, like…

    Premier Icon Northwind
    Subscriber

    Credit it where it’s due to MBR on 29ers mind, they owned up to getting it wrong, and still make a point of mentioning it.

    Funny, I remember a chance meeting with Dobby the house elf from future, where he’d just testridden a KHS 29er… He said “If you rode a bike as bad as that as your first 29er, you’d believe all the rubbish everyone says about them” People form strong opinions based on first experiences and a lot of people’s first experience of 29ers was on a shit bike.

    kudos100
    Member

    Short memory or are you just a whippersnapper?

    Mid pack rider when he rides against the worlds best.

    Premier Icon Rusty Spanner
    Subscriber

    Are there any UK MTB journalists who we can actually trust anymore?

    This 650b thing has reflected badly on the whole industry, but I reckon it’s the credibility of the MTB media that will be the biggest loser.

    JCL
    Member

    Credit it where it’s due to MBR on 29ers mind, they owned up to getting it wrong, and still make a point of mentioning it.

    Indeed. I don’t know how that Orange 5 650b V’s 26″ got in the mag because as you say, totally different geo etc.

    I still say their bike tests are head and shoulders above anyone else’s though.

    Are there any UK MTB journos who we can actually trust anymore?

    This 650b thing has reflected badly on the whole industry, but I reckon it’s the credibility of the MTB media that will be the biggest loser.

    Its always been like this, new fads, bells and whistles. Bike brands trying to make money. I don’t blame them really and I’m amazed people are only starting to pick up on it.

    Tom_W1987
    Member

    thing is though, the bigger wheel is faster, you can argue it isn’t until you run out of places to buy 26″ stuff but in the end they are.
    time to join the 21st century guys*

    *if any bike company is out there looking for new staff, see i am ace at this marketing bullshit thing, employ me!

    Data please, pinkbike ran a test that seemed to show they were slower on the downs. Is the tiny difference in wheel size worth the loss of travel many of the 650b dh bikes are seeing?

    If they’re faster why has it been a case of marketing bringing these bikes to consumers first and elite level downhillers later, when new stuff has almost always been tested by dh teams before we get it.

    Premier Icon Rusty Spanner
    Subscriber

    I’m not surprised at the actions of the big bike companies.

    I am very surprised that not one UK journo has expressed a negative opinion.
    This alone makes me wonder exactly how much influence the manufacturers have on what we read.

    JoB
    Member

    Rusty Spanner – Member
    Not just Dirt.

    What MTB are the worst.
    A couple of unbelievably patronising pro 650B articles by Jo Burt and Matt Letch, people I previously had much respect for, has put me off both the mag and the authors.

    i’ve never ridden a 650b bike, i’ve never written anything about 650b bikes, just to clear that up

    Premier Icon Rusty Spanner
    Subscriber

    Apologies.
    Could have sworn the article last year on opinions and influence of friends on kit choice was yours.
    The accompanying illustration certainly was, perhaps that’s what got me confused.

    Once again, apologies if I got that wrong.

    I’m not surprised at the actions of the big bike companies.
    I am very surprised that not one UK journo has expressed a negative opinion.
    This alone makes me wonder exactly how much influence the manufacturers have on what we read.

    Maybe I’m imagining things but haven’t we also seen not one UK journo expressing a negative opinion about the slackening of head angles and lowering of bottom brackets over the past five years? Maybe there’s something in this slightly bigger wheel thing too?

    I can’t provide an objective opinion because my new bike has slacker, lower, longer geometry, a much stiffer frame, excellent rear suspension rather than none and much better front suspension, as well as slightly bigger wheels. Far too many variables! Bloody awesome though.

    Premier Icon chakaping
    Subscriber

    The first 650b review I read was in ST mag, by Benji I think.

    His conclusion IIRC was that it was pointless.

    [conspiracy mode]
    Don’t see much written by him any more of course…
    [/conspiracy mode]

    Premier Icon mikewsmith
    Subscriber

    Speaking to a mate in his bike shop yesterday and the 26″ obsolete tech joke hit again (he now only has 3 26″ bikes in stock and probably will only get a DH bike in with those wheels) his main surprise was how efficiently the bike industry has got together to remove the 26″ bike from the market.

    I’m not surprised at the actions of the big bike companies.
    I am very surprised that not one UK journo has expressed a negative opinion.
    This alone makes me wonder exactly how much influence the manufacturers have on what we read.

    Bike mag review bikes, most new bikes are better than older bikes (most not all) therefore new bike is better – oh it has new wheels
    There is very little editorial in bike mags really.

    Premier Icon chakaping
    Subscriber

    There is very little editorial in bike mags really.

    You’re going to have to explain what you think “editorial” means.

    Premier Icon Rusty Spanner
    Subscriber

    Not one negative comment published regarding the way that 650b has been forced onto the market?
    Not even one?

    And you don’t find that surprising?

    JoB
    Member

    Rusty Spanner – Member
    Apologies.
    Could have sworn the article last year on opinions and influence of friends on kit choice was yours.
    The accompanying illustration certainly was, perhaps that’s what got me confused.

    the illustrator does not always share the opinion of the article he’s commissioned to illustrate
    🙂

    Premier Icon mikewsmith
    Subscriber

    perhaps the wrong word selected early in the morning,
    (From wikipedia – An editorial, leading article (UK), or leader (UK) is an opinion piece written by the senior editorial staff or publisher of a newspaper or magazine )

    I was probably searching for more straight opinion piece on the way things are. Singletrack probably has a bit more than most. The majority are New Stuff, New Stuff, New Stuff, Look at the new stuff we got, Holiday, look at our free holiday, new stuff, somewhere we went cause there was no free holiday but look at the new stuff we took etc.

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