2019 General Election

Viewing 40 posts - 3,481 through 3,520 (of 6,291 total)
  • 2019 General Election
  • Premier Icon frankconway
    Subscriber

    Charles Clarke, former Lab Home Sec, on 5Live with sharp criticism of Corbyn and faint praise for McDonnell.
    Hmmmm.
    Following rabbinical comments and Neil’s interview, this isn’t helping.
    Having said that he’s even more critical of Johnson.

    Premier Icon kelvin
    Subscriber

    very few people will have seen the Neil interview

    They have probably heard the “why didn’t he just say sorry” comments on social media, TV, radio etc though.

    Why didn’t he just say… “Sorry for any slow responses to antisemitism complaints by the party in the past, at my insistence we have improved our systems now, and I personally will ensure we stay on top of such things in future”?

    mariner
    Member

    According to Politico London Playbook

    Neil is now due to grill Prime Minister Boris Johnson and Lib Dem leader Jo Swinson — though unfortunately we don’t know when just yet.

    Do you think Johnson will take a sicky or send Gove instead?

    Premier Icon kelvin
    Subscriber

    In fact I distinctly remember them admitting they were wrong and that Corbyn had earned the right to continue.

    Well, apart from those who have given up and sloped off… either out of parliament or out of the party completely.

    2016 “Why aren’t they loyal to the leader, they’re just tories”
    2020 “Why didn’t they warn people about the leader, and seek to replace him”

    Anyway, I can’t wait for the NHS stuff to get running this morning, and move this on…

    Premier Icon binners
    Subscriber

    They could have easily challenged the leadership and called for Corbyn to resign in the wake of the 2017 defeat

    You know the theory on madness, and repeating the same exercise and expecting different results, right?

    Same common room electorate… same result.

    This directionless, flailing car crash and losing a second election is absolutely 100% at the door of the PFJ I’m afraid fella. Corbyn, his grim cabal and his 6th form cheerleaders have been running the show for nearly 5 years now and have gradually purged all but the loyal Corbynites from any position of power or influence

    So its a bit bloody rich trying to palm this off on the centrists/Blairites. This is all Momentums doing. They need to acknowledge that and take some bloody responsibility for it

    Premier Icon boomerlives
    Subscriber

    then everyone in the labour party is complicit, not just the left.

    True. But inexplicable.

    My local Labour candidate came knocking last night. I asked him from the outset whether he was a Corbyn man. He would not answer the question directly. He tried to wriggle away from the question, recognising that it is poison, and the wrong answer will undermine everything else he might have to say

    If Corbyn’s ‘grass-roots’ support can’t stand up and be counted, what will the folk going to the polls think?

    Premier Icon binners
    Subscriber

    very few people will have seen the Neil interview

    If I were you, and you want to continue in your little la-la-land Corbynite bubble, I’d avoid any of todays front page headlines. The ones Jeremy wrote for them last night. Or any TV or radio news, where its leading every broadcast

    Premier Icon kelvin
    Subscriber

    Corbyn wisely doubling down on the USA wanting to do away with the way the NHS works to reduce the price paid to USA companies for drugs. This one needs hammering home.

    5thElefant
    Member

    Corbyn wisely doubling down on the USA wanting to do away with the way the NHS works to reduce the price paid to USA companies for drugs. This one needs hammering home.

    The underacted documents are on order order.

    Premier Icon dazh
    Subscriber

    I’d avoid any of todays front page headlines

    If you think the labour party should set policy, campaign, and conduct itself with the aim of getting positive headlines in the Daily Mail then it’s not the left who are in la-la-land.

    Why didn’t he just say… “Sorry for any slow responses to antisemitism complaints by the party in the past, at my insistence we have improved our systems now, and I personally will ensure we stay on top of such things in future”?

    I don’t get why they can’t just come up with a rehearsed form or words exactly as you suggest. There must be a reason, I’d love a politcal expert to explain why they can’t just do that.

    Premier Icon boomerlives
    Subscriber

    They would no doubt say it was due to Corb’s ‘integrity’

    Premier Icon dazh
    Subscriber

    I’d love a politcal expert to explain why they can’t just do that.

    NickC gave a plausible explanation yesterday.

    Premier Icon binners
    Subscriber

    If you think the labour party should set policy, campaign, and conduct itself with the aim of getting positive headlines in the Daily Mail then it’s not the left who are in la-la-land.

    Thats one thing, but literally writing their headlines for them every day is another. He’s an open goal for the Mail and Telegraph and unfortunately the BBC and broadcasters all follow their lead.

    He’s a liability. Has been from day one. And he gets progressively more of one. A championship-winning voter repellent

    If the Daily Mail, Express, Torygraph and Tory Central office were tasked with choosing the leader of the Labour party, they’d opt for Jeremy Corbyn every single time. He’s all their birthdays and christmases come at once. The gift that just keeps giving. As he proved yet again last night

    Premier Icon boomerlives
    Subscriber

    If the Daily Mail, Express, Torygraph and Tory Central office were tasked with choosing the leader of the Labour party, they’d opt for Jeremy Corbyn every single time

    And in the interests of balance, the Labour NEC would also choose Boris in a heartbeat. The potential for ballsups and scandals would be easy prey to them

    Sadly, it’s not working out that way.

    NickC gave a plausible explanation yesterday.

    You mean this:

    For those of you who don’t follow internal Labour local party politics (and why would you) look at the chart I’ve posted (of the religious voting in the 2017 election), and note that really large orange spike. That is the Muslim Labour vote. It’s hugely hugely important in the story of both Labour support in the Midlands and the North West, and Anti Semitism, and why the Labour executive struggle with this issue so much. The Labour strongholds in the East Midlands and in large parts of the North West are Muslim. Not helped by muslim, or voted by muslim, to all intents and purpose, the Labour party in many of these areas IS muslim. Nationally it’s massively important, there is absolutely no way that this vote can be lost…The Jewish vote on the other hand…ah, not so much…(voting is after all, a numbers game)

    Here’s the problem, there is unfortunately a teeny-tiny part of the Muslim vote that is anti Semitic, and the old guard of some of the Labour Party find common ground with them in the Palestinian struggle. I’ll point this out for the hard of thinking, but it bears repeating.

    I totally agree with Nick’s post, [1] BUT it doesn’t explain why some kind of apology can’t be rehearsed relating to the process, that dodges the question in interviews without losing ‘those’ voters.

    [1] 300k Jews in the UK, 3,000,000 Muslims. Electorally there’s no doubt which side has to be pandered to.

    kerley
    Member

    Sadly, it’s not working out that way.

    It never will. When the media are Tory based the Labour party will never win that game. Even if they were not attacking Corbyn they would just be attacking polices with lies about what they are and put those lies on the front page.
    And as Binners says, TV media just follows the lead. Just this morning the TV morning news was referring to a Telegraph headline. If TV is supposedly unbiased why would they refer to a Telegraph headline almost as fact? (one of the most biased newspapers available)

    This is the stuff the average voters sees, they won’t have been watching the Andrew Neil interview.

    Premier Icon rone
    Subscriber

    If the Daily Mail, Express, Torygraph and Tory Central office were tasked with choosing the leader of the Labour party, they’d opt for Jeremy Corbyn every single time. He’s all their birthdays and christmases come at once. The gift that just keeps giving. As he proved yet again last night

    They did when they encouraged Tory supporters to pay to become Labour members and vote him in – because they thought he would sink Labour.

    IT DIDN’T WORK.

    I’ve noticed you only pop up when there is bad news about Corbyn in the media. You never pop up to say that was a good policy etc.

    There is no way that interview was anything out of the ordinary. Cut and thrust Paxman with nothing of use to the electorate – you are amplifying ‘their’ bullshit.

    The gift that just keeps giving. As he proved yet again last night

    It’s not that Corbyn is unpopular from any frame other than the MSM’s reporting. Any Labour leader will get the same sort of treatment. It will just be from a different angle.

    You way is just to suit up a new Labour leader – make him a BBC luvvie, jump in bed with Murdoch and deliver the satus-quo (drip-fed Neoliberalism)

    There is no integrity in that, and it won’t change our country for the better.

    jimw
    Member

    We are three weeks into this election, and so far We have not had a single piece of literature from any of the parties, nor have we had anyone canvassing. This follows the pattern for all of the general election campaigns since we moved here 25 years ago. We have never had a canvasser in that time period, and the only election literature that I can recall receiving in the past 10 years was from the Brexit Party for the european elections. I assume this is because we are in a very very safe seat-the 29th safest tory seat apparently. I guess this makes my vote less valuable to anyone

    They did when they encouraged Tory supporters to pay to become Labour members and vote him in – because they thought he would sink Labour.

    IT DIDN’T WORK.

    Ehh? It worked a treat. Labour failed to beat the worst government in living memory in 2017. If that’s not sunk I don’t know what is.

    Premier Icon boomerlives
    Subscriber

    I’ve noticed you only pop up when there is bad news about Corbyn in the media. You never pop up to say that was a good policy etc.

    Not one bit; I’ve been travelling for a couple of days.

    When there is a bit of good policy, from anyone, I’ll definitely pop up.

    The NHS thing should be incendiary. Do you thing it will be enough?

    There is no integrity in that, and it won’t change our country for the better.

    Neither will spending money we don’t have nationalising everything. I’m old enough to remember Britsh Rail, British Leyland, the National Coal Board and British Gas.

    None of them leave good memories, why would it be different this time around.

    And – stop Brexit. Just do it. Stop prevaricating.

    Premier Icon dazh
    Subscriber

    You mean this:

    Yup. He’s right.

    BUT it doesn’t explain why some kind of apology can’t be rehearsed relating to the process

    But they have, how many times have you heard Corbyn say ‘Any form of racism, including anti-semitism, is completely unacceptable in our party, and we will continue to root it out wherever we find it’. You may not think that’s an apology, but it’s a clear statement of intent, and acceptance of the problem. Labour are doing more than any other party to remove racism from it’s ranks. It’s also the only party that admits there is a problem. The difference is that they do that impartially and universally with all forms of racism, and their opponents ludicrously point to that as an acceptance of AS.

    Premier Icon slowoldman
    Subscriber

    Moved to other thread.

    The NHS thing should be incendiary. Do you thing it will be enough?

    They should turn it into a catchy slogan and then employ it with varying degrees of success.

    Premier Icon kelvin
    Subscriber

    Someone kindly started another thread for all the AS concerns/conspiracies. Please move it over there.

    Let’s get stuck into what the NHS pays for drugs, and how that’ll have to change for Johnson to get his quick UK:USA trade deal… and how that trade deal will also seriously impede on getting the trade deal we need with the EU… the one Johnson says he can get sorted inside 12 months… and painting all this as “ending uncertainty for business” and “protecting the NHS” is outright lying.

    tjagain
    Member

    For Lady Warsi, who had tirelessly campaigned against Islamophobia for years, having been the country’s first female Muslim cabinet minister, it was a moment she had longed to see. Unable to contain her delight, she tweeted her thanks to Javid, who now serves as chancellor. “It’s a shame,” she added, “that it’s taken four years and a leadership contest to finally drag my colleagues kicking and screaming to address this issue.”

    Now, however, it appears that that commitment has been watered down. Earlier this month, days after Gove insisted that the Tories would “absolutely” hold an independent inquiry into Islamophobia before the end of the year, Johnson performed a U-turn. It would instead be a “general investigation into prejudice of all kinds”.

    This is not the first time Warsi has found herself at odds with her colleagues. “I’m really, really hesitant about making this Sayeeda v the Tory party,” she says, but “it’s increasingly becoming like that because there are so few other voices.””

    So how much coverage does this get? Islamophoba and racism in general is far far more prevalent within the Tory party than antisemitism in labour. We have a racist in charge of the tory party, we have a life long anti racist campaigner leading the labour party

    which party has the bigger issue? which party gets more negative press?
    https://www.theguardian.com/politics/2019/nov/27/sayeeda-warsi-tory-islamophobia-muslim-prejudice-investigation

    tjagain
    Member

    Donald Trump is ready to use trade talks to force the National Health Service to pay more for its drugs as part of his scheme to “put American patients first”.

    Mr Trump has claimed that the high costs faced by US patients are a direct result of other countries’ health services “freeloading” at America’s expense.

    Alex Azar, the US Health and Human Services Secretary, has said Washington will use its muscle to push up drug prices abroad, to lower the cost paid by patients in the United States.

    “On the foreign side, we need to, through our trade negotiations and agreements, pressure them,” Azar said on CNBC.

    “And so we pay less, they pay more. It shouldn’t be a one-way ratchet. We all have some skin in this game.”

    He continued: “The reason why they are getting better net prices than we get is their socialised system.”

    Premier Icon molgrips
    Subscriber

    I’m old enough to remember Britsh Rail, British Leyland, the National Coal Board and British Gas.

    None of them leave good memories, why would it be different this time around.

    Why wouldn’t it? Private companies are badly run all the time*, we don’t use that as an argument against the concept of privately run companies do we?

    You know how people go on and on about how railways are so much better in other countries? Lots of them are nationalised. It’s possible to run a nationalised railway well, so why couldn’t we? Surely you’re not saying those foreigners are better than us?

    * like most of the rail companies, in fact, or indeed Railtrack – remember that? Openreach also universally complained about and for that matter utility companies.

    Premier Icon boomerlives
    Subscriber

    that’ll have to change for Johnson to get his quick UK:USA trade deal… and how that trade deal will also seriously impede on getting the trade deal we need with the EU… the one Johnson says he can get sorted inside 12 months… and painting all this as “ending uncertainty for business” and “protecting the NHS” is outright lying.

    Would that not be knocked on the head immediately by staying in the EU? Would it not be the easiest solution to the issue?

    Premier Icon molgrips
    Subscriber

    Would that not be knocked on the head immediately by staying in the EU? Would it not be the easiest solution to the issue?

    In practical terms yes, but not politically.

    stevextc
    Member

    Neither will spending money we don’t have nationalising everything. I’m old enough to remember Britsh Rail, British Leyland, the National Coal Board and British Gas.

    None of them leave good memories, why would it be different this time around.

    I’m open to it being different … however I don’t think rushing into it is a good idea but most importantly I don’t think this is the right time because

    And – stop Brexit. Just do it. Stop prevaricating.

    Premier Icon binners
    Subscriber

    They did when they encouraged Tory supporters to pay to become Labour members and vote him in – because they thought he would sink Labour.

    IT DIDN’T WORK.

    You what? It couldn’t have worked better! The labour party is now a completely unelectable, impotent shambles that is about to lose yet another election to a chaotic government led by a far right narcissist. Not only that… its in the process of purging anyone who doesn’t worship at the alter of St Jeremy in a bid to make themselves even less electable. The front bench are gang of utterly incompetent, anonymous placard-wavers

    So how do you define that as a success? Go on….

    It’s not that Corbyn is unpopular from any frame other than the MSM’s reporting.

    He has the lowest approval rating ever recorded for a leader of the opposition. Far worse than Iain Duncan Smith or Michael Howard. Thats not the fault of the press, thats the fault of Jeremy Corbyn

    You Corbynites really do need to re-engage with the real world

    Premier Icon boomerlives
    Subscriber

    Lots of them are nationalised. It’s possible to run a nationalised railway well, so why couldn’t we?

    Because the govt isn’t/wouldn’t be capable of doing it. Otherwise it would already be forcing change on the private companies through legislation and oversight. Govt’s of either colour over the last 20 – 30 years, I am referring to.

    dannyh
    Member

    I can’t help but feel this is ‘it’.

    Corbyn has the smoking gun. The contents of that unredacted report are utterly outrageous (assuming the précis I have read is true) and run directly contra to promises Johnson has made.

    This should be enough to unite people against Johnson, it really should.

    Jezza has the means now, right now. He has to make this count, publicly, repeatedly and loudly. Make damned sure that Johnson has to answer questions about this document and how it runs contra to his assurances.

    Premier Icon dazh
    Subscriber

    The labour party is a completely unelectable

    As you say EVERY post. We haven’t forgotten you know 😉

    Let’s get stuck into what the NHS pays for drugs, and how that’ll have to change for Johnson to get his quick UK:USA trade deal…

    There’s more stuff in these trade talks docs than stuff about the NHS. Like the fact that any mention of climate change is banned by the US.

    Premier Icon boomerlives
    Subscriber

    I can’t help but feel this is ‘it’.

    Brexit alone should have been ‘it’.

    But it was fumbled into an irrelevance. Let’s see if this is handled any better.

    kerley
    Member

    He has the lowest approval rating ever recorded for a leader of the opposition. Far worse than Iain Duncan Smith or Michael Howard. Thats not the fault of the press, thats the fault of Jeremy Corbyn

    And you don’t think that the approval rating is so low because of what the press have been saying about Corbyn for the last 3 years?
    I am not a supporter of Corbyn as a leader as he is crap at it but he is not what the press have made him out to be and what the press say is all that a lot of people use to base their judgement on.

    Premier Icon kelvin
    Subscriber

    It is ALWAYS tougher for a Labour leader than a Conservative one, when it comes to the media. Johnson, Milne, Murray & Co don’t have the skills to work within that constraint… and there is still the suspicion that they are not even trying. Their aim is the long term transformation of the Labour Party, that matters to them far more than replacing the Tories as the party of government.

    Premier Icon dazh
    Subscriber

    Now the right wing twatterati want Corbyn done for treason. Is there any end to the madness?

    Premier Icon kelvin
    Subscriber

    Interesting that it’s “sensitive” not “top secret”… there’s a whistle blower’s defence right there. Looks like it was leaked online back in October as well… journalists being caught on the hop… they have nothing genuine to defuse this story with, and nothing to pin on Corbyn. This one needs hammering home… it’s the one thing that can open the eyes of the public to what a Johnson pivot from EU to USA means… it is of very little benefit to the UK economy as a whole, and will be to the detriment of the NHS.

Viewing 40 posts - 3,481 through 3,520 (of 6,291 total)

You must be logged in to reply to this topic.