I’m looking at building a new hardtail up. I want to go for a 1x setup.

I could potentialy use some 10 speed last generation parts that work well and are in good condition. I’ve an xtr rear shifter and mech and a new xt cassette already so could buy an expander cog, boost crankset, goat link and narrow wide chainring to complete a nice light 1×10 setup.

On the other hand I could sell the 10 speed parts I have and buy a 1×11 XT groupset which would be more up to date, be brand new and cost roughly twice as much.

The question is would the adapted 1×10 setup perform as well as the purpose built 1×11?

I would say it depends on how big you want to go with your cassette. The 10 speed stuff with a goat link seems to work ok up to 42 tooth, but on some frames you cant make a 46 tooth  cassette shift well on 10 speed.

if you use an 11 speed sunrace cassette you get a good spread of gears (closer than XT) and a SLX rear mech and shifter you would probably get better shifting than bodged 10 speed and not cost that much more once you well your old 10 speed kit

Just go 11 opens up the world for you

I went 11 speed with SLX mech and cassette, SRAM chain and an XT shifter as I find it’s the shifter that gives feel.

It was about £120 I think and I sold my old XT 10spd stuff for £50 so not a bad upgrade for the cost of a new XT 10spd chain and cassette.

I changed to 1×10 last week.

racecface aeffect crank 30T. £50 CRC

deore 11-42 cassette £20  Ribble

existing XT mech and shifters, no modifications apart from a longer B screw

selling my triple parts on on eBay for around the same as my outlay

id just run what i have in the shed until it breaks, then upgrade.

come to think of it i have 10sp with expander on my hacked together hardtail.

having said that the 11-46 xt is a dream!!

I’m struggling to grasp the need for a 42, let alone a 46…. Stick a 30-32 front on there and surely you can’t really need a 46 rear to go with it ? 30/46 must be slower than walking ?

I’m struggling to grasp the need for a 42, let alone a 46

Hills

30/46 must be slower than walking ?

Which is why other chain rings are available like 32 or 34

Yes, but why not run a 30 and then save the expense/issues of needing the 42/46 ?

Surely going 1×10 and running a 30-38 is cheaper and easier than going 1×11 with a 34-42 for example and will have about the same gearing ?

Have only dipped a toe in the world of 1×11 and have yet to use the 46 cog esp with a 30T up front. Even in the 2nd largest cog it feels like the chain’s fallen off. I need resistance.

and the more I look at the hideous dinner-plate size cassette the more I’m drawn towards 11-32 XT

I’ve never needed a goat link on any of 5 different frames with a 40T expander an M785 mech.  I’ve got everything except a lever (mount) for 11sp I need the spares bin that would convert the T130 but no plans to until I wear out the drivechain. The mega just got 11sp taken from the T130 purely due to the hub and existing expander not playing together .. and I was finding a 32 front and 36 rear not quite enough ..

from that  my philosophy is wear out what you have first

I’m struggling to grasp the need for a 42, let alone a 46…. Stick a 30-32 front on there and surely you can’t really need a 46 rear to go with it ? 30/46 must be slower than walking ?

A look at the ratios shows that it’s nowhere near as low as the lowest ratio on a “traditional” 3x setup, it’s actually roughly equivalent to a 14T on that setup.

30/46 = 0.652

22/36 = 0.611

If you went to one of the 50T cassettes like SRAM Eagle then you’d get a ratio of 0.6 so just a bit lower.

IME you don’t need the really low gears for short steep climbs or technical climbs as @rocketman says, you need resistance. They are much more useful at the end of a long* day when you are tired when you come to a long steady climb. They are still quicker than walking in that situation.

*long = 12hrs or more.

depending on the bike, and suspension

i ride mainly 32or34 chainrings with 11-46 on the rear, as others have said the 46 rarely gets used. (especially on my XC hardtail)

i find the top end and the bottom end work, although sometimes on my full sus with 34-46 i’d prefer one lower gear

if you are using a 11-42T i’d recommened a 30t/32t chainring,

i ride hilly pennines/peaks..

personally I’m looking forward to 12 speed XT 10-51 cassette with a 34T (possibly 36T in summer) oval

Thanks jonnyboi for that cassette deal, just got myself one to try 1x

Op try here but be quick if you want 1×11 they were also doing 11-42 for same price

https://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/New-Shimano-SLX-M7000-1×11-Speed-MTB-Groupset-4-pcs-11-46T-Cassette/223007253520?ssPageName=STRK%3AMEBIDX%3AIT&_trksid=p2060353.m1438.l9372

Same boat here with 10/11 but was disappointed with shift quality of slx and xt 11 speed on some demo bikes. My old XT 9 speed felt super slick after.

I’m going M6000 11-42, 30t up front, Saint shifter and maybe an 11 speed mech, or 10speed with wee goatlink copy.

Agree about going 11 speed for the extra range unless you really like the poshness of having xtr.

I would run what you have for now. Try the 10sp mech as it is first as frames vary with the mech position and you might get away without a goatlink or similar, especially if you stick to a 40 or 42t expander cog. Fwiw you can also run an 11sp mech with a 10sp set up and it works much better as it needs far less b-screw to clear the bigger cogs so tracks the smaller cogs better.

But if you are going to change, then imo the best set up will be an xd driver so you can use a 10t top end and then whatever big cog you want. Makes a huge difference in not sacrificing top end to get a viable climbing gear.Then just use whatever you prefer for shifter/mech.  It would be shimano for me.

Out of interest .. how fast are you guys going to need the 10/11T rear with even say a 32T on there ? If i’m on the road i can do 24mph or so with a 12T cog with a 32T front ring…. I’m not sure where on a ride i really need more than 24mph and the ability to pedal. If I’m going faster than 24mph then the odds are i’m hanging on, rather than looking for more power !

I use 32/10 on the road a fair bit and on some fast pedally downhills too. I might have a lower cadence than you? I think ideally I would want a bigger range than 10-42 so maybe i’ll change that later at cassette replacement time.

What gearing you need is very individual and depends on what/where you ride as well as your preferred cadence range. If you find that you are using the largest cog a lot then you need to get a smaller chainring, similarly if you are spending a lot of time in the smallest cog then you need to get a larger chainring. Ideally for an 11spd cassette you should be spending most of your time on cogs 3-9, a little time in cogs 2 & 10 and only occasionally in 1 & 11.

A short time spinning out in the smallest cog does not mean that you need a bigger chainring. Spinning out for tens of minutes does.

For me 30/11 on the flat is about as much as I can push for any reasonable length of time (on a 29er). If I’m on a downhill then it’s a quick spin up then I’m coasting

I had 1×10 32 with 11-36. Changed to 11-46 11spd. I run a 32t for bikepacking and 36t for normal biking. I much prefer the 11spd set up feels less of a compromise

What gearing you need is very individual and depends on what/where you ride as well as your preferred cadence range.

That’s … correct!!!

Example, biking in the Alps with backpack and not using the Ski lift….- and yes uphill in the smallest gear might be not much faster than walking.

But couple hours uphill pedaling is so much nicer than pushing the bike up.

Don’t like the Ski lift thing too much.

Ratio I like for the smallest gear (front/back): below 0.6 !!

What gearing you need is very individual and depends on what/where you ride as well as your preferred cadence range.

I hope Weeksy is reading this!😄

As above, depends where you ride in terms of gearing, but I do like 11 speed over 10.

32 – 11/46 here.

I hope Weeksy is reading this!

Sure, i just struggle with where some of the gearing quoted is of actual use.

I’ve done all dayers, i’ve done short races, i’ve done SDW with long climbs etc and never have i thought “ooooh if only i had a 42 instead of a 36 on the rear”…. Or “if i could only have another 2 clicks i could be doing 45mph”.

I totally understand that’s just me…. but i’m not questioning it to be a dick or to attempt to prove superiority, just curious as to the circumstances.

my xc race bike is 11 speed 10-42 @ either 32 or 28T depending on whether I need some extra climbing gears, but I use it for everything from short cx courses to 24 hour races that will have maybe 6,000M of climbing. its easy to change the front chainring depending on event, they’re cheap at superstar and I save some weight and complexity.

All three of my MTBs are set up 1x and all have subtly different gearing.

Cotic Solaris. This was my first foray in to 1x and when I got it there weren’t really many (any?) wide range cassettes so I went with the “bodge” of using an XT 11-36T cassette and removing the 17T then using a 40T extender. I started with a 30T round chainring and the gap in the gears just happened to be at about the point where I be moving from uphill to downhill or off-road to road so I didn’t notice it. Once I got stronger I moved to 32T (sometimes round sometimes oval) which moved the effective point of the gap so I notice it with that chainring. Once the extender wears out, probably at the next cassette change then I’ll move to an 11-42T cassette and stick with 32T up front as I don’t use the 40T much at the moment.

Fat bike. This has 28T oval chainring with a 10spd 11-42T Sunrace cassette. I went ten speed as at the time all my bikes were ten speed so it just made spares like quicklinks a lot easier to think about. I’m considering getting a 26T oval chainring as I have found that on one occasion I was almost out of gears but that was on snow in Lapland and I might have got my tyre pressures wrong. The cranks are AEffect direct mount so I can go that small.

Salsa Spearfish full sus. 1×11 with 30T chainring, came with a round chainring but when it wears out it will be replaced with an oval one, again direct mount AEffect cranks. The cassette is 11-42T and I use the bike for long distance rides like the BB200 and HT550 so the 30/42 is a useful bail-out when I’m tired. It’s not the steep stuff where the bail-out is useful, for those it’s either walk or go up a gear or two and power through them, but the long estate roads or wind farm access roads that are in the 4-5% sort of steepness but go on for several kilometres.

Apart from their specific niches I’ll ride all three in the Dales, Lakes, Wales and Scotland so some big, and steep, climbs

On a long climb sometimes you just want to sit and spin. If it’s really steep then you’ll be lifting the front wheel anyway, but sometimes you’re legs are tired and you don’t want to walk (don’t forget you won’t be walking at 3mph uphill)

I should say that all my ‘big’ rides are with bikepacking gear

Sure, i just struggle with where some of the gearing quoted is of actual use.

For you some of the gearing is probably of no use, for me (32×11-46, 29er). The lowest gear gets me up steep hills with tired legs, the tallest keeps me working on long descents and road sections. My legs just don’t spin up like some people. And on most rides I’ll use the entire cassette top to bottom.

Sure, i just struggle with where some of the gearing quoted is of actual use

I am convinced that you can understand that different human beings have different ages, levels of fitness, weights, cadence preferences and that what works for you may not work for someone else. Imagine a single speed rider pretending to not understand why you need more than one gear. You would think he is a dick or trying to demonstrate superiority and while I am sure that’s not your intention, that’s how you come across.

Sure, i just struggle with where some of the gearing quoted is of actual use.

On Monday I spent 45 mins slogging up a long hard rubbley road, the 42t was getting engaged up there and it was faster than walking.

On the fast flats I was using the 10t in the range I like to spin at.

On other days I might not use both sides of the cassette but I can run one chain ring and get the best of both. When I was somewhere hillier my mate turned up on Eagle with a 34t and was spinning away.

Even if I could ride everything on 11-36 I’d take the 10-42 for the variety and change, I’ll probably go eagle next as it will give me versatility and back up.

I was considering whether to go 10 or 11 speed earlier this year on my old bike. In the end I opted for 10 speed with a used XT shifter, barely used Deore M6000 rear mech, Sunrace 11-42 cassette and a KMC chain. This was using an existing but fairly new 32 narrow wide ring on an XT triple chainset.

I installed all the parts and indexed the gears on the workstand, but never actually rode the bike as a 2017 model year bike came up at a good price, so I bought that instead. The new bike has an 11 speed SLX shifter and rear mech, Sunrace 11-42 cassette and a KMC chain! So fairly similar to the 10 speed setup.

The 10 speed feels more positive, with a definitive clunk when changing gear, the SLX feels lighter but also more vague. They both work, and although I refer the 10 speed XT shifter on the workstand I’m happy with the SLX 11 speed when out riding.

It’s perhaps worth noting that the Deore M6000 10 speed rear mech works with wide range cassettes without using hanger extenders.

At the moment I’ve got a 1×10 and 1×11 both with 11-46 Sunrace cassettes, both on XT shifters, 11 speed SLX and XT mechs.

The older 10 speed XT shifter feels nicer than the newer 11 speed one. Other than that it’s hard to tell any difference when riding.

Whichever is easiest and cheapest.

“Out of interest .. how fast are you guys going to need the 10/11T rear with even say a 32T on there ? If i’m on the road i can do 24mph or so with a 12T cog with a 32T front ring…. I’m not sure where on a ride i really need more than 24mph and the ability to pedal”

I know I have too low a cadence and I need to up my cadence.

But this calculator show to hit 24mph on a 32T by 12T with a 26″ wheel and a 2.2 inch tyre.

You would have to have a cadence of 115 rpm.

http://www.bikecalc.com/speed_at_cadence

In reality how long can you cycle like that ?

Wikipedia suggest a pro cyclist will have an average cadence of 90rpm on a flat section although I can believe it might have increase recently.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Cadence_(cycling)

I would stay with 10 and go with a deore mech allowing you 11-46 (maybe bigger) range. 10 speed feels nicer and is more reliable and I can say I notice the slightly bigger gearing jumps.

But this calculator show to

I think STW has clearly voted in the past that calculations, measurements and facts have no place in a 1x drive train thread 😉

I used my 46 along with my 30t chainring for the long grind up the Mendips last week. I can manage with the 42 or even whatever is one down from that but it’s easier / more of a spin on the 46 and seems to be faster than the harder gears so for me the extended range of the 11s is worthwhile. If you’re fitter /lighter /faster/prefer low cadence it may not be. Not really that difficult to understand is it?

Wow, what a lot of varied responses, I’m glad I asked the question.

It seems like some people find the shifting on 11 speed a bit less positive than 10 speed and I remember thinking this when changing from 9 to ten. This my main concern really so as long as I can get the shifting to be as good with an expander cog as without then I’d probably stick with 10 speed. That way I can use some of my existing kit replacement parts are cheaper.

Despite all the willy waving and comments about what other riders need, just buy what you think you will need based on previous and current gear ratios.

Personally I love really low gears. Have 30t front and 11-46 10sp on a 27.5+ hardtail and 30t front and 11-50 11sp on a 29″ FS. Howeve I’m a very overweight old biffer that likes to pootle rather than race everywhere, although I hate walking up rideable climbs, hence the low gearing.

Had a fat bike with 3x up front and an 11-42 rear. That was hilarious and would climb up to a point where the front lifted too far, despite my weight right over the bars.

So, my thoughts are just because gearing may have you spinning away and going slower than a slow thing, if that’s what you personally need and/or want, so be it.

It seems like some people find the shifting on 11 speed a bit less positive than 10 speed

i have XX1 on the 11 speed and have always found the shifting a little lazy. The shifting isn’t off, it’s just not as positive as 10 speed shimano, or even 11 speed road shimano for that matter

It seems like some people find the shifting on 11 speed a bit less positive than 10 speed and I remember thinking this when changing from 9 to ten.

It’s marginal … less than you’d get in a range like Deore to SLX to XT anyway.

Probably makes naff all difference for most of us in real life vs on a bikestand  will bother some more than others.

Better jumps between gears … possibly measurable if you are racing with a cadence sensor.  Though again will bother some more than others.

Max gearing … / range … I’m stuck to see when it’s needed if you’re OK spinning out from time to time.  As this means your going pretty quick already it means you need a long section for this to be a significant amount of time.

(i.e. if you’re doing 20mph just to pick a easy number, then you’ll cover a mile in 3 mins… and I don’t find many sections of a mile where I really want to be going that much faster..)

If you are carrying tents and stuff or riding up alpine decents then perhaps it’s a different matter…. but mostly I find a 40 or 42 is fine on 27.5 with a 32T.  That’s not to say after a really long day I wouldn’t use a bigger cog if I had one… but for me its not a value proposition.  If the climb is technical then there’s a limit to how slow you can ride anyway… when you get to roots and rocks.

so as long as I can get the shifting to be as good with an expander cog as without then I’d probably stick with 10 speed. That way I can use some of my existing kit replacement parts are cheaper.

It’s unlikely to be AS good… for a start I’m sure Shimano and SRAM can both show very accurately measured figures as how their very specific tooth profile is better… though of course you’ll need to use their chain and ….

However how much does that affect your riding is a different matter.  I’ve found most 1×10 with expanders will shift from 1st if you continually back pedal in a bike stand… if that ruins your enjoyment then.. well it does… but it’s never really bothered me riding.

I’ve got EVERYTHING except the converter for a shifter that would take one of my bikes from 1×10 to 1×11… its just not worth it (£15 or so) FOR ME …. whilst I’ve a load of 10sp stuff not worn out yet.  At some point it won’t be worth buying a new chain…