Very tough David. Nice little battle with you on the second lap!
Some stats from that BRS TT -
Average power 323w (equates to 4.48w/kg)
Average HR 184
Max HR 192
Thought I was going to be sick
Did a warm up before the KISS race, went to perform a spindown as usual and the Wahoo utility insisted I did a FW update. All updated ok, did advanced spindown then a normal one.
At the off I found myself screaming through the pack and straight off the front, was very surprised to see >1Kw eased off and kickr still showing 400W, bugger. Abandoned the race and tried a reboot/spindown, still power way up on what it should be. A quick google shows I ma not the only person having this issue with update. Awaiting Wahoo support.
Anyone with a KICKR please be aware.
Max hr was only 165, average was 157, NP = 303 and a new record for w/kg.
Training is good for you, but nothing beats a race ( and a battle) for an all out effort
Also did the BRS TT, looked like there was a good STW turnout (i'm mostly a lurker). Only had 5mins to get changed and setup, a rather rude awakening after feeling knackered at work. Still good fun in a racey sufferery way though 😀
If we are doing ride stats
Average power 278w (3.3w/kg)
Average HR 169
Max HR 182
Need to get the FTP up and the FAT down 😛
Heh heh, that was fun, bringing up the rear, and crashed out on the final lap with hamster style heart conditions... will be back though.. hope to improve.
Looks like things have gone horribly wrong with the TT race: http://zwiftpower.com/race.php?id=3101#
I didn't calibrate the stages beforehand, but I doubt that would make such a huge difference. Don't really know anyone locally to test it against.
does everyone with the KICKR do advanced spin-down every time they ride?
Im wondering why sometimes the w/kg rating is bright white bold writing but at other times its slightly dull, I've not yet figured out what differentiates it being either dull or bright. Happens for other riders around me too.
"TT bikes only for Time Trial Race"
Checked before and after when I spotted the flag next to my result, definately used a TT bike. Somethings cocked up.
I did the FW update last night on my KICKR2 and all OK. I don't spindown calibrate before every ride. Should I?
I think I'll be dq'd or upgraded from KISS D after a strong last lap. Next time I'll go up to C.
As always I really struggled for the first 15 minutes and almost quit, then ok for 10 minutes, then the watts drop back until I wake up and have a strong finish. I definitely prefer the hillier courses despite being 94kg, I just can't sustain the effort on the flat. You'd never think that I live in the Fens 😉
Wow!! That was fun. 9/75 in KISS B.
Even better- I only needed 3.2w/kg to do it compared to the 3.8 or so of those around me. Smarter not harder folks 🙂
That KISS race was hard. As always, dropped on the climbs but managed to hang on OK for first couple of laps then steadily got slower and slower. Mid table of the B's so quite happy with that.
that'll be the new aero hat, obvzEven better- I only needed 3.2w/kg to do it compared to the 3.8 or so of those around me. Smarter not harder folks
😀 I didn't realise the webcam was on 😉
I only did a sub 2 ride RO4H, was ridiculously easy for 2.5 laps - despite being advertised as 1.3-1.9 I was largely at 130W or less - to stay with the leader but then had a bit of a burn up from about 4 miles out just so I actually worked up a sweat.
Was intrigued that some people finished 10 mins in front of me and probably therefore 12-13mins in front of the leader with average W/kg in the high 2's and low 3's. Do they count them as wins? Muppets!
Well in looks like I won last nights KISS D 8)
I didn't get an advisory to upgrade but I still think I'll go to C as there's not much group riding in D.
Awesome result Drive and Murphy... Great work lads...
Another month ends.... 545km last month, which i'm pretty happy with considering i missed 5 days training.
Well done Drive!!
I don't get Naths 'Murphy' tag lol
I stole it off Weeksy - robocop/murphy 😆
@weeksy I'd be interested to see CHs stages versus your kickr. I didn't realise how subjective power is!
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/RoboCop_(character)
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We need to get you racing in a Robocop jersey !
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@weeksy I'd be interested to see CHs stages versus your kickr. I didn't realise how subjective power is!
Nath, don't forget, he has the same turbo as me and his is almost exactly the same on both his stages and his Snap.
If he's up for coming over for some testing, then of course i've got no issues if it would help you.
Based upon my figures and what we worked out recently with the Stages and Garmin pedals, i'd say my Snap is certainly not a million miles out if at all.
Hell, you're more than welcome to come over with your kit too mate, i know it's a drive/faff, but you'd be welcome
Ah I see 😀
Weeksy- like any machine, individual units can vary but I don't see why it wouldn't be ballpark correct.
Happy to test next week.
It isn't accurate for the first 5-10 mins from cold though....
It did pretty well in DCRainmakers tests.
https://www.dcrainmaker.com/2015/06/wahoo-kickr-snap.html
It isn't accurate for the first 5-10 mins from cold though....
Brings up an interesting question for me.
I generally loosen off the adjuster after each ride (as i saw what it did to Joes tyre), do you re-spindown on it after tensioning it again each time ? I think the manual states something like "if removed from the turbo...." but is that the same as loosening the adjuster... i don't know really. I have some white tape on the adjuster, so i know it's in the same position each time i tighten it up.
If so, do you do 10 mins warmup first before Spindown ? I only did about 5 last night...
A couple of questions popped up from last night...
1/ how do I go about joining the STW team on zwiftpower?
2/ is it normal on the first lap for all the other riders to disappear and come back randomly? Almost as if the network is overloaded.
Looks like either my non finish, or my accidental use of a power-up at the start when I was fiddling with the iPhone caused my details to disappear off the results table.
I have a Tacx Vortex Smart. For a while I just did a spindown before starting a session (didn't want to interrupt a TrainerRoad workout partway through), and figured that if the absolute values were off then they'd still be roughly consistent, so it would be fine (with virtual power like a Vortex and a Snap, it's never going to be guaranteed very close to true watts anyway). However, as the weather got colder (mine is in a shed), the difference between cold and warm increased, so the calibration effectively drifted with the season.
Since then I have got a PowerTap hub, and have compared Vortex and PowerTap quite a lot. DC Rainmaker is right that it takes about 10 minutes to warm up (depends on what you do during that period, of course). But on top of that, the calibration continues to drift quite a lot, depending on what you're doing. If (after things are already warmed up) I, say, put it in Erg mode and set to 200W for 5 minutes, then do a spindown calibration, then continue at 200W, the Vortex will actually do a decent job of reporting around the right value and holding it. But if I then drop down to 100W for 5 minutes, then you can see the tyre/roller/resistance unit cooling down as the PowerTap and Vortex drift apart a bit. If I then go back into 200W then it will start off with the resistance actually higher than it should be (i.e. PowerTap will report ~220W) because things are colder than at spindown time, then over the course of 5 minutes or so it will warm back up and come back into rough alignment.
So, what I tend to do is NOT do a spindown before starting a workout (no point replacing the last session's 'warm' calibration with a 'cold' one). That does mean that the first few minutes are way harder than they should be as the unit comes up from 3C or whatever. But then I do a spindown once I've got it pretty warm, and often another one after a decent length interval at the most-important-for-me level.
For zwifting, I guess the only sensible thing to do is spend 10 minutes at approximately your average workload then do a calibration. But, the reality is that these cheapish units are really not only reporting virtual power that might be offset from 'real', but are not as consistent as we'd like across a range of power levels and wheel speeds (and ambient temperatures).
It's interesting that in the Kickr2 they've actually ditched the strain gauge that was in the Kickr1 as they found that they got more consistent data without using it. I *think* the Kickr(2) has temperature compensation whereas the Snap doesn't, but I'm not sure. I'd be interested to know whether the Snap is less vulnerable to temperature than the Vortex. If the Snap is temperature-stable then I'd be very happy with one of those, but otherwise I can see myself eventually going with a Kickr.
1. Create an account in ZP, then from profile page you have a little down arrow to the right of your picture.... use that and just type STW in the box
2. It's not uncommon for riders to disappear, usually for me it's 1 rider ... The general consensus is that it's a network dropout at your end when lots/all disappear (i'm yet to be convinced of that personally).
I generally don't care about the ZPower results any more... if racing, i race who's next to me and that's it really. More so if it's an STWer of course... But the actual results on ZP have been pathetically useless over the past month, so i've stopped even looking to see if they've worked now.
Thanks Weeksy - much appreciated. I've added STW, and yes it could be the network at my end.
Looking forward to getting on again, and hopefully finishing the race next time around. the racing really made me work a lot harder than I would have on my own.
Gray:
I get a similar drift in results from my Tacx Vortex and powermeter. I've also noticed that at lower power (100w) the two units match fairly well, but once about 200w I get a 10% difference, and when pushing hard it drifts out to a 15% difference.
I don't mind too much, but I wish I could easily remove my power trace from strava, or have a different power curves for two devices.
Question for the techies.
Over my cold at last so hopped on last night for some much needed exercise - but something odd seems to have happened
My Garmin GSC10 Zwift has now decided is a Pioneer cadence sensor & the readings are literally all over the place. Cadence on the Garmin was +/-90rpm, Yet Zwift seems to think I was crawling at 65rpm. I'm inclined to say the Garmin was correct, 90 is about my natural pedalling pace & thats how it felt. As a result, power is through the floor etc.
Restarted everything, tried to resync, but it still thinks its a Pioneer.
Any ideas?
I've only spot checked my power meter against what the turbo is reporting in Zwift, however I think the next ride I'll record power from the power meter on my Garmin, then compare it with what Zwift has recorded from the T2240.
@weeksy - haha we should club together for that jersey 😆 Thanks for the offer! The purchase of a stages is looking very appealing at the moment over a new turbo trainer...
@gray - thanks for that! I'm using the Vortex in a cold garage (where it waits). Last night I got onto Zwift with 4 minutes to spare so couldn't do any calibrating on either the Tacx/Stages.
However even with my sporadic calibration routine the Vortex has remained fairly consistent (the last result was with the stages): http://www.zwiftpower.com/profile.php?id=8544067
I'm going to do some more tests to get the Vortex to match the stages on Zwift (by adjusting my weight/height) - then I can work on development when the stages goes back using the same numbers.
Club together ? it's only a Tenner... if i'd known, i'd have bought it for his birthday 🙂
I'm going to do some more tests to get the Vortex to match the stages on Zwift (by adjusting my weight/height) - then I can work on development when the stages goes back using the same numbers.
I suspect a lot of the power readings from the turbo's are bollocks. I'll check my T2240 against my power meter, and could probably do the same with the KICKR that mossimus has, given he lives walking distance from me.
The previous time I checked the power meter against the T2240 both had been calibrated however the T2240 and the tyre would have been cold so I suppose that could change a bit when both warm up.
I've tested my wahoo kickr against my Garmin Vectors and the two are within a few watts throughout the range.
Nathan, if you've an FTP of 340 at <70kg. I hope you spend more time training for a domestic team than you do messing around on Zwift.
Nathan, if you've an FTP of 340 at <70kg. I hope you spend more time training for a domestic team than you do messing around on Zwift.
He's doing well in CAT4 races... but as a solo guy, not a team thing.
@weeksy - ah I didn't know that, where's it from?
@The Southern Yeti - My FTP is the Tacx Vortex's lie, adjusted it now 😆
Out on a real life circuit my best 20 mins FTP is 270W (but I'm nowhere near full out at all for those 20 mins). Which is leading me to hope that the stages needs calibrating for use on the turbo trainer.
You'd be riding away from a Cat 4 pack with ease at 4.85w/kg 🙂
@The Southern Yeti - Not a brag here but I do, but they always get me eventually. 😆
@weeksy - ah I was googling "Robocop cycling jersey" to no avail. 😀
Haha, they wouldn't catch you... ever.
I've tested at >4w/kg both on the trainer and the road and still get kicked the hell out of on Zwift. I'm considering becoming a 50kg female to become competitive.
Surely any kind of tweaking is useless if the turbo itself isn't consistent/accurate? Which the cheaper ones almost certainly aren't? So the only real solution is to get a proper power meter, or a turbo which is known to be accurate (or at least consistent)?I'm going to do some more tests to get the Vortex to match the stages on Zwift (by adjusting my weight/height) - then I can work on development when the stages goes back using the same numbers.
Surely any kind of tweaking is useless if the turbo itself isn't consistent/accurate? Which the cheaper ones almost certainly aren't? So the only real solution is to get a proper power meter, or a turbo which is known to be accurate (or at least consistent)?
The other problem is that it's only going to be accurate in certain circumstances, e.g Climbing, in flat/descents it's likely to be just as inaccurate.
This is a chunk of the reason i went for the Snap recently instead of just using the Bkool that was reading incorrectly and adjusting my weight down accordingly.
It's helped justify my decision that the Snap is a lot more enjoyable too, which is a bonus.
I've tested at >4w/kg both on the trainer and the road
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@The Southern yeti - holding off 40 other riders, with some actually working together, on a circuit is difficult 😆
@zilog6128 - absolutely, throwing money at it would be the optimal solution, but lifestyle circumstances mean I can't at the moment. 😈 So the power is never going to match, but I can make the times more or less match for the time being.
Well, I wasn't suggesting that you [i]need[/i] to spend any money on it, Zwift is only a bit of fun anyway, more that
is impossible/fool's errand anyway due to the inconsistent nature of the inconsistency? Not that I would discourage anyone from tinkering if that's how they want to spend their time!I can make the times more or less match for the time being
Sorry I'm a little grumpy of late - normally I just throw money at issues, but it's annoying not being able to at the moment. So yeah the vortex has been consistent in itself so adding a few KG should easily make it more realistic, just feels wrong knowingly robbing folks of decent places on it? 😳
Sorry I'm a little grumpy of late - normally I just throw money at issues, but it's annoying not being able to at the moment. So yeah the vortex has been consistent in itself so adding a few KG should easily make it more realistic, just feels wrong knowingly robbing folks of decent places on it?
Think how i felt in the reverse... knowing i should have been finishing higher for the last 2 months...
I've not actually put it into practice yet, but i should in theory be a lot closer to the front of C than i was...
You can only do what you can with the kit you have... while slowing you down on certain parts, weight adjustment isn't the overall answer.
Does tyre pressure impact on the tacx vortex?
Think how i felt in the reverse... knowing i should have been finishing higher for the last 2 months...
Personally that's not something I care about, as I only really see Zwift as a training aid to keep my fitness up during the winter months - plus there is zero chance I'll ever be racing for real anyway. What I would like though is for performance measurement to be consistent - as long as that's the case I'm not sure I really care about what the actual numbers are.
My experience is also indicating that it's tricky to evaluate performance on the turbo compared to performance outside. Even using the same power meter for indoor and outdoor rides I'm finding I'm struggling to perform at the same level on the turbo as I do outdoors. Initially there was a huge (50W+) gap, but it's down a bit now.
Even using the same power meter for indoor and outdoor rides I'm finding I'm struggling to perform at the same level on the turbo as I do outdoors
Possible causes could be the amount of energy wasted to dissipate heat indoors and the lack of micro-breaks you get on the road. Plus all you get to think about on a trainer is the suffering.
Possible causes could be the amount of energy wasted to dissipate heat indoors and the lack of micro-breaks you get on the road. Plus all you get to think about on a trainer is the suffering.
Suspect both are true - certainly I saw an improvement when I started using a fan, plus I do find my arse is numb by the time I've been on the turbo for an hour where as that wouldn't be the case outdoors.
Latest innovation was to get one of the handlebar Tacx mounts for a tablet and last night, when I did my longest (75 minute) turbo session so far, I did find watching youtube music video's on that helped.
weeksy - MemberAnother month ends.... 545km last month, which i'm pretty happy with considering i missed 5 days training.
Well, I managed more miles in Jan than I did for the whole of Jan - mid May last year - would have been more had it not been for all the initial reliability problems with the Flow Smart.
I reckon by the end of March I'll have done more miles than the whole of 2016...
Different circumstances last year with a box-fresh baby to deal with, but a good start to the year!!
Hoping to do more miles in Feb than Jan...
I'm at 672km this year (with maybe half of that on the turbo) which is certainly 672km more than I'd done by this time last year.
@weeksy - yeah I bet you're looking forward to getting back into racing!
You're all right though, I'm going to stop taking Zwift seriously and just use it as a training tool/game and not get bogged down in the numbers. I'm quite fortunate in that I can benchmark myself on a real circuit.
I'm at 1,070km for January 2017 (620 outside) versus 148km (100 outside) for January 2016 😯
Right how does this work?
Tried it twice now and I'm confused by Watts & Watts per kilo
I've got an older Tacx turbo
Tried "The Wringer" and found 450W for 30seconds
repeats hard work
Then tried just trying to keep up with others and found it really hard work.
1-2w/kg seems okay, all day
3-4w/kg hardish
4-5w/kg arghhhhh I'm gonna die...
Is this normal? Is my turbo right(ish)
I'm 90kg and at a BC event I had a go on a Watt bike test thing and managed 980W peak for 10 seconds
do an FTP test. that'll tell you your 20min power figure. divide this by 90 (your weight) and it'll give you your W/kg figure that you can sustain for 20min which was what most race cats are based on.
Ie. last race I did averaged 245W, I'm about 77kg. ergo 3.18 W/Kg. Cat C limit is 3.2 so I was just under the limit and placed 6th.
1-2w/kg seems okay, all day
3-4w/kg hardish
4-5w/kg arghhhhh I'm gonna die...Is this normal? Is my turbo right(ish)
Totally depends how fit you are and how you define 'hardish'.
I think most folks would say if you are able to make 3.5W/Kg (>300W for you) and its only 'hardish' you should be dropping a few pounds and getting someone to sponsor you to race.
weeksy - MemberAnother month ends.... 545km last month, which i'm pretty happy with considering i missed 5 days training.
epicsteve - MemberI'm at 672km this year (with maybe half of that on the turbo)
nathb - MemberI'm at 1,070km for January 2017 (620 outside)
Ahem.....erm.....161 miles so far....or 259km for you Europeans... 🙂
Need to pull my finger out!!
Totally depends how fit you are and how you define 'hardish'.
I think most folks would say if you are able to make 3.5W/Kg (>300W for you) and its only 'hardish' you should be dropping a few pounds and getting someone to sponsor you to race.
Not too fit - average or a bit worse
Need to drop 20lbs just to get 'normal' BMI
Ha! Having cycled in the real world with some fast but not even sponsored riders I know I'm not even close to that league
Looks like "Team STW" took bronze place in last nights KISS C/D race 🙂
http://www.zwiftpower.com/race.php?id=3100
(Unfortunately you can't direct link to the team results page so click on the "Team" tab to show the team results).
The Southern Yeti - Member
Welcome back 🙂
Edit... and...
weeksy - Member
Another month ends....
Good riddance to Jan. Hate it. Always a shitty one for training. Time to get stuck into Feb!
Not too fit - average or a bit worseNeed to drop 20lbs just to get 'normal' BMI
Ha! Having cycled in the real world with some fast but not even sponsored riders I know I'm not even close to that league
That would imply there's something wrong with your setup or your definition of 'hardish' then 🙂
That would imply there's something wrong with your setup or your definition of 'hardish' then
Okay, well I was worried it was set up too hard as couldn't get near the Watt bike results so probably me just being soft (and everybody was faster than me)
dc2.0 - Member
Looks like "Team STW" took bronze place in last nights KISS C/D racehttp://www.zwiftpower.com/race.php?id=3100
(Unfortunately you can't direct link to the team results page so click on the "Team" tab to show the team results).
http://www.zwiftpower.com/team.php?id=756
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Parkwood now on and tested for zwift use. Its only good for about 28mph flat speed, but that's not my goal. The goal is something that Crosshair often notices which I'd that different bikes and setups use slightly different muscles, so its acclimatization to the Parkwood on longer slower rides I'm going for. They won't all be 2 hour rides, but I plan on throwing a few longer ones like that in when I can't get out.
Should set me up for the white roads 100 mile event nicely.
If you whack up the realism it should be good for a few more mph on the flat? Just at the expense of spinning out on descents...
Tbh mate it was putting out 400w when I asked for it, that's high in any world I ride anyway, it was in top gear at 95rpm or so.
Plan is for this bike to be sub 200w mostly anyway
weeksy - Member
Another month ends.... 545km last month, which i'm pretty happy with considering i missed 5 days training.
epicsteve - Member
I'm at 672km this year (with maybe half of that on the turbo)
nathb - Member
I'm at 1,070km for January 2017 (620 outside)
1274km, outdoor just once for 120km, 37 hours altogther
Wowsers! That's lots
An hour Crit racing IRL and a 1hr KISS EU race are very close effort/intensity wise for me at the moment.
237 miles in Jan for me - quite chuffed with that, though it's entirely on the turbo
prior to this year, my Jan maxes have been 67 miles, then 7.2 😳
Weirdness on the 8.00 TT tonight - never finished. Supposed to be 10miles (16km), I gave up at 17.3km with no banner in sight
Results are on the live button but they pretty much arrange themselves in order of distance ridden.
Is that likely to sort itself out or am I virtual toast ?
Had that. Unless you ride to banner about 24km it doesn't register
45km for me tonight. Taking it fairly easy on pace though
11th in the EVR C tonight - not bad considering I have had a stinking cold.....
Brilliant. Nice work.
@b1gf00t - 1100km on the indoor trainer in a month?!
You should go see your GP, thats a worrying addiction you have there 😯
16th in EVR C but looking at the live results 10 above me will get dq'd.
Great sprint finish. Clawed back a 6s gap through the esses and beat two on the line.
I did the Polish coffee group ride. It was so disorganised as a group ride it was comical. Bless haha.
11th in the EVR C tonight - not bad considering I have had a stinking cold.....
Now, I'm no mathematician - what's 11-10 ??16th in EVR C but looking at the live results 10 above me will get dq'd.
... weeksy, how's the leg ?
there were loads of complaints being posted about it just as my TT was starting 😀I did the Polish coffee group ride. It was so disorganised as a group ride it was comical. Bless haha.