Zwift, my journey, my weight and my fitness.

A review of some smart turbos over at cyclingtips...

https://cyclingtips.com/2018/01/best-indoor-smart-trainers-for-zwift/

Bit of an odd review, not quite sure how they rate the Kickr as top, given how they say it's not as good as the other turbos on feel or power measurement. Must be those adjustable feet!

Think I might have just won C in the WBR one lapper. I like short flat races like that, they suit my disposition.

Confused me there for a minute, I won the 19.40! Slightly faster than your race as well. Short flat races definitely suit me as well, can happily hang in there for 15 minute before my body gives out.

Back to the slow burners tomorrow, but couldn't resist mixing it up a bit.

I held the A/B group until about 3/4 of the way up the short climb off the river. Got back to within 4-5m but they just pulled away. Was a B cat that got dropped as well so I drafted him for the rest of the race as it was 45s or so back to the next group and could see the two C’s that stayed in the lead group were likely to be DQ’d so didn’t seem a lot of point in pushing it too hard.

Sounds a very similar format Jambo. We had the first three C's across the line upgraded but they were a long way ahead, I was with a group of B's but got dropped on the climb off the river too.

I just had a sprint against another C, think he thought he had it in the bag with 100m to go as he just sat up, I cranked it up, beat him on the line as he couldn't get going again. Think that's the first sprint finish I've won.

Well I buggered that up, 4.0 average!

Here's hoping I get upgraded rather than dqd. Was pushing as hard as I would have had I entered in A, certainly couldn't go any faster 😀

Here's hoping I get upgraded

Haha touché.

AVG HR of 170 there, don't think I can be accused of holding back.

Sounds like a cracking night/evening all round guys 🙂

Not bad for someone who has no power Scaled 🙂

Rest day here so will have to make do with reports and write ups from you lot.

I'm going to jump on a WBR 1 lapper on Thurs though.

This is the most encouraging thread on STW 🙂

I might head out into the real world for some snow cycling today, just for giggles. Zwift wise, my numbers are about the same as they were last week, and you've all reminded me that I need to get some races in.

Did the Kiss wake up race yesterday morning, was horrific. Alarm set for 7 minutes before race start, hopped on the bike with 22 seconds to go having not even had a sip of water. Turns out that’s not conducive to mustering any power, exacerbating my breathtakingly unfit state!

Stayed with the leaders for about 2 minutes, decided that was silly when my heart nearly exploded, cruised between a couple of small groups and sat up for the sprint for a stellar result of dead last in B. Managed to get 204bpm and an average of 186bpm. It’s been a while since I’ve seen that. Might try eating [i]something[/i] before doing that again.

Njee that is impressive hr stats,if my heart did that it would end up splattered all over my ipad!

Some great results the last couple of days, STW starting to dominate the scene.

and sat up for the sprint for a stellar result of dead last in B

Wow... considering what sort of a rider you used to be, that's well... quite eye-opening ?

Yeah, yeah, thanks for the reminder! 😉

It's pretty shit; new job meant riding dropped significantly in 2016, then had a baby, lost interest a bit, other hobbies came to the fore, usual story. It's a funny thing really (without this wishing to be a humble brag/sob story) but because I used to be really fairly quick just being "alright" was a bit depressing, friends got faster than me, so social riding stopped being fun.

Rode my MTB once last year, and did fewer than 200 miles total in October/November/December combined and all of that was commuting (into Central London, which isn't the most fun).

Need to get back on it (hence Zwift at 5.55 on a Tuesday morning), got far too fat, riding does make me happy, otherwise it'll get to summer when it's a pleasure to be outside and I'll be really unfit and won't enjoy it, and that's a bit of a vicious cycle.

Anywho, I'll try eating something next time, maybe strive for the middle of category B!

I think it's time for me to face up to some cycling truths that are becoming more and more evident.

It doesn't seem to matter what question I ask of me or my bike, what races I enter, Zwift, Enduro etc it seems the answer to the questions always ends up as 'do some bloody intervals'

I might have to do a 'plan'

Good news is that I should have some CVR points coming my way.

Did the Kiss wake up race yesterday morning, was horrific. Alarm set for 7 minutes before race start, hopped on the bike with 22 seconds to go having not even had a sip of water.

I can't imagine anything worse, I'm impressed you even attempted that!

Yeah, yeah, thanks for the reminder!

It wasn't supposed to be as harsh as it may have come over as.

Back in the day when you were racing Elite at Gorricks, you were one of the untouchables, one of the blokes I'd think "Sheesh, that's just unthinkable".... For me to now sit here and think "I'd probably have beaten him today" is just crazy bonkers to me.

I can't imagine anything worse, I'm impressed you even attempted that!

I've done loads of races where i end up signing in with a minute/2 left before the race and it seems to work arguably better for me. Possibly because the HR then takes the first 4-5 mins to get up to the peaks, whereas if i start from a higher HR i'm peaking sooner...

Weeksy, it's more the 7 minutes after getting out of bed that I'd find abhorrent.

just being "alright" was a bit depressing

Welcome to my world 🙁

Welcome to my world

It's all relative isn't it ? You're far better than 'alright' in my world Kryts, you're certainly quicker than me... and i think i'm 'alright'... But then compared to an Elite, you're only 'meh'.. but the Elite compared to Nino is 'meh'..... So it's relative.

All you can be is the best you are and enjoy what you/we are doing, whether it's on Zwift or outside, you have to accept your place in the world and the grand scheme of things, otherwise it all becomes too much of a chore

just being "alright" was a bit depressing

#goaveragegooften

Right, someone talk to me about Smart Trainers. Right now I'm trying to maintain 300w average intervals but the fact that the terrain is changing and my effort / cadence is not reflected by the landscape seems to make the constant watts mentally challenging

I think I need something that makes a hill feel like a hill.

Or is it me and I need to adjust my technique/head?

the terrain is changing and my effort / cadence is not reflected by the landscape seems to make the constant watts mentally challenging

I think I need something that makes a hill feel like a hill.

Or is it me and I need to adjust my technique/head?

I'm not dismissing smart trainers (they're great IMO) but changing your gears would achieve "much" the same. At least worth trying first

All you can be is the best you are and enjoy what you/we are doing, whether it's on Zwift or outside, you have to accept your place in the world and the grand scheme of things, otherwise it all becomes too much of a chore

Ha yep, lifes ladder etc. I am enjoying my training this winter (mostly) despite some of it being very challenging indeed - Swift has really helped. I'm getting nervous about my first competitive race at the end of Feb and what worries me most is if I get through this - and I am showing improvement by numbers - and don't improve my placings my head might drop. Still, I have help for that.

Smart trainers make it harder in some ways to maintain on Zwift, because when you hit say a 1% drop, then your 95rpm and effort suddenly drops from 300w down to 230w so you have to up the cadence/gear to maintain... but by the time you've done that it's back to 0% and you're now at 350w as you've changed cadence/gear....
What it does mean is that on certain courses you can hit higher W for longer, e.g up box hill you may average 350w as you're climbing.... but down the other side you may only hit 100w and it all evens itself out.

Taking a break for Events in Zwift, the strict rules regarding w/kg and so on are irritating, stopping at the top of leith hill for 10 mins pissed me right off but felt like i had to stick to the rules and wait for everyone to not piss anyone else off and be polite.

Instead, doing the 4 week FTP booster workout, can fit this in around work and family time so it works for me however, there is a gran fondo on sunday which has thrown a spanner in the works...unlocks a limited edition jersey which i think i must have. Anyone else doing it? Gonna do the bambino route for time purposes, supposed to be a garden weekend with the mrs

Right, someone talk to me about Smart Trainers. Right now I'm trying to maintain 300w average intervals but the fact that the terrain is changing and my effort / cadence is not reflected by the landscape seems to make the constant watts mentally challenging

Eh? In Zwift? Just change gears? You want changing terrain, you want to need to maintain a power with changes in cadence and gear, you want to be able to cope with the little accelerations and decelerations.

Or is it me and I need to adjust my technique/head?

Probably you.

I'm not dismissing smart trainers (they're great IMO) but changing your gears would achieve "much" the same. At least worth trying first

I am doing that as I have cadence targets too. I am riding that in 54/13 to achieve the cadence target, its just the visual thats messing with me. Maybe its me then.

Oh right I see, so dumb trainer but the visuals making you press harder on hills etc. Yes found this too. Don't look at the screen 🙂

I think I need something that makes a hill feel like a hill.

Or go the whole hog and get that Wahoo thing that actually inclines your bike, can’t get much more realistic than that! 🙂

and I am showing improvement by numbers - and don't improve my placings my head might drop

How much can you realistically expect it to improve by though ? How far ahead is the guy 5 places higher than you... if it's 30s over a 1 hour course then maybe... .but if it's 5 minutes, then are you expecting more than is likely to be possible

Taking a break for Events in Zwift, the strict rules regarding w/kg and so on are irritating, stopping at the top of leith hill for 10 mins pissed me right off but felt like i had to stick to the rules and wait for everyone to not piss anyone else off and be polite.

yeah some mental adjustment needed. Its going to be worse soon as I'll move outside as soon as and when I can and my outside/inside power has a 12% differential.

Vis a Vis I have some VO2max efforts at Hadleigh on Sunday 😐

It wasn't supposed to be as harsh as it may have come over as.

Don't worry, I knew exactly what you meant, and no offence was taken! Even if it was you made up for it by referring to me as "untouchable" 🙂

In fairness you need to take some credit for that too - it's easy to use others as a baseline but the reality is that both you and they can change.

I've done loads of races where i end up signing in with a minute/2 left before the race and it seems to work arguably better for me.

Yeah, I've never been a "warm up" kinda guy, was definitely just the lack of food/drink before that meant I had nothing in the tank. I contemplated a gel before hand, but that just seemed ludicrous!

Right now I'm trying to maintain 300w average intervals but the fact that the terrain is changing and my effort / cadence is not reflected by the landscape seems to make the constant watts mentally challenging

So you have a dumb trainer which isn't changing the resistance and it's messing with you psychologically because you expect it to be getting harder because you're going uphill? If you're wanting to do intervals at x watts then I'd say a smart trainer is actually frustrating, the change in resistance makes it quite difficult to hold a consistent wattage. If I'm doing something where I want consistent wattage I'll turn off the smart trainer stuff.

FWIW I've got a Tacx Vortex and it's alright. The power reading is way out, but seems to be consistently out (gonna sell my P1s because I effectively have two incomparable data sources for power and I'm doing no riding outside where power matters), the resistance changes are quite abrupt, and it takes a good while for you effort at the pedal to be reflected on screen, which I find means I'm prone to 'yo-yoing' through groups, takes a while to get used to how much effort to put in to avoid shooting straight past. I'd love a Neo, but they're just too expensive.

he change in resistance makes it quite difficult to hold a consistent wattage.

Do a race, or a TT - no waiting, hint of competition; all good fun

Yeah I will do once I've got myself in a decent fitness position after this 4 week workout. Sitting halfway between D and C I think, who knows. Guess i'll have to race and see what happens!

How much can you realistically expect it to improve by though ? How far ahead is the guy 5 places higher than you... if it's 30s over a 1 hour course then maybe... .but if it's 5 minutes, then are you expecting more than is likely to be possible

Its not like that. For a start, as you know MTB is very variable. Rather than focus on places (I know I stated that) I'm focussing on my race performance. So its comparable lap times vs 2017 where possible, average lap times, RPE and so forth. Also, I know the people around me from previous years so I can compare from that perspective.

To give you an example I did a "test" race in December at 98% VO2max for the duration and was in the mix of a bunch of riders all of which where 1st, 5th, 7th and 8th in their Eastern League series finishes in 2017. I finished 4th. Now, I've no idea where they are in their fitness, but that felt like an improvement to me.

there is a gran fondo on sunday which has thrown a spanner in the works...unlocks a limited edition jersey which i think i must have. Anyone else doing it? Gonna do the bambino route for time purposes

If the forecast snow arrives then I'll probably end up doing this.

The bambino is the 3 sisters which I actually quite enjoy. Takes roughly a hour and a half.

gonna sell my P1s

OT - might be interested, I'm looking for a cheap 2nd hand pedal for my TT bike end of Feb. I do mean cheap though as its only used a few times year, so if it is cheap drop me a line? 😀

I actually prefer it, as all you have to do is maintain a consistent cadence. YMMV

The exact opposite is true...? Maintaining a cadence whilst the resistance increases means that your power goes up.

I want to just be able to maintain a constant cadence, hence turning off the auto resistance changes. Not talking about Erg mode, which I understand varies the resistance to keep you at the required power, but the resistance changes in response to the terrain.

OT - might be interested, I'm looking for a cheap 2nd hand pedal for my TT bike end of Feb. I do mean cheap though as its only used a few times year, so if it is cheap drop me a line?

Nah - they're not that used, so want to get good money for them really, apologies!

No worries and

they're

The exact opposite is true...? Maintaining a cadence whilst the resistance increases means that your power goes up.

Inspired by njee early effort did first Zwift race since May last year. Did the Asia Wednesday night race, goal just a bit of training motivation to stay with the leaders. Didn't really know the course which made it a bit tricky to know where to push on so had to leave it to the sprint finish... out of the 6 or so at the finish I was predictably 6th 😆

Doing my first race tomorrow night. Wbr 3 lap hilly, cat C.

Didn't Zwift yesterday, so will take advantage of fresh (ish) legs and do an FTP test later. Not done one in over a year due to how unpleasant they are!

Inspired by njee early effort did first Zwift race since May last year.

Attaboy, been a while since I inspired anyone!

I kind of know what you mean Kryton. I’m using Trainerroad to control ERG mode whilst Zwift simultaneously sees my power and thus drives my Avatar around.
As I go up a familiar hill on Zwift, my Power increases! As I go down, it decreases!
Obviously not by much as ERG mode tries to correct it- but noticeably so.

If you had a smart trainer and used ERG mode within the Workout Module, you’d be in the same boat, so for structured training then a smart trainer probably isn’t worth it?

Road to Ruins race... how does that usually play out? Feels like the only selective climb is the first bit of the Mountain before you peel off, which comes early in the race for a single lapper. The one out of the jungle is just a long drag and not really steep enough. Can see it usually being a sprint finish from a small group.

OT: Also interested in the P1S when you come to sell.

[quote=mrblobby ]Road to Ruins race... how does that usually play out? Feels like the only selective climb is the first bit of the Mountain before you peel off, which comes early in the race for a single lapper. The one out of the jungle is just a long drag and not really steep enough. Can see it usually being a sprint finish from a small group.

IME, big group until the bottom of the first climb. everyone else ****s off, small groups or solo TT the rest. 😉

Right, someone talk to me about Smart Trainers. Right now I'm trying to maintain 300w average intervals but the fact that the terrain is changing and my effort / cadence is not reflected by the landscape seems to make the constant watts mentally challenging

The joy of smart trainers in ERG mode is that it sets the power output and you just pedal. Drop your cadence and the effort per pedal stroke increases, speed it up and it drops, but the power output stays the same. No cheating, no dropping effort, no throttling off on the final interval. It's a bit of a revelation.

I use Sufferfest for intervals to be honest, I don't really get why I'd want to do them on Zwift - seems like a lot of distraction - but the basic principle's the same. If you pedal harder the trainer just adjusts things so the power output stays the same.

I think smart trainers are brilliant, takes the guess work and thought out of intervals and just leaves you to get on with it, no gear changes, no nothing. Only exception is on really short, brutal efforts when the trainer in ERG mode sometimes can't 'keep up' but for most stuff it's brilliant.

Good on Zwift too, the way it reacts to gradient changes makes the whole thing feel more real.

Badlywireddog- as I say, there is something in what Kryton is saying though which isn’t solved by ERG mode. It is possible to be +/- 20w in ERG mode at the same cadence, at least until it catches up. And the terrain aspect of Zwift does cause that to happen- especially as I’ve ridden the hills many times free riding and had the terrain change automatically.

It’s one of the reasons I choose the flattest possible route when doing ERG sessions (the other being that you rack up more ‘miles’ 😆 )

Keeping up with the 10-12 week ftp workout and avoiding racing at the moment. Mainly because I had an enforced layoff before Christmas and can’t really face a 4 lapper and the 1 lap races always seem to be on at times I’m not free.
I’m starting to get my head around being on the turbo longer than an hour. It wasn’t that long ago that once the hour was up I’d just stop as I just couldn’t face being on any longer than that.

I’m starting to get my head around being on the turbo longer than an hour.

This, lots. Although only my second week. Had a crack at the three sisters as I'm working away a lot and this was the only session I can do until the weekend. Blimey that's hilly. But on the cx bike for 1hr40. Definitely a bit numb after that but there is no way I could have done that without the app.

I was even going bit further then I realised I had a flat tyre. On a turbo! How can that happen?

I was looking at the power curve on strava. I like to think of myself as a model of consistency. Which is better than saying 'not going any stronger' 😉

crosshair - Member
Badlywireddog- as I say, there is something in what Kryton is saying though which isn’t solved by ERG mode. It is possible to be +/- 20w in ERG mode at the same cadence, at least until it catches up.

I've generally found it pretty good, at least with the Kickr. I get an occasional small peak over the target power, but it's generally momentary and only happens if I really kick it hard at a high cadence. I get what you're saying about ERG and Zwift, it's one of the reasons I don't do intervals on the platform. I can bury myself quite happily without, though I love it for just riding around and at some point I'll probably do some racing for giggles. I'll maybe go and have a play tomorrow though.

get an occasional small peak over the target power, but it's generally momentary and only happens if I really kick it hard at a high cadence

I think that’s more down to the way the kickr estimates power output rather than what power you’re actually making.

My drivo is a bit odd* on erg mode - one day I'll try with something other than zwift to see which is to blame (do you get taster sessions on TR/TP/sufferfest etc ?).

*I get overshoot/undershoot oscillation and it's fairly annoying (on sessions that specify cadence I sometimes get "MORE POWER" simultaneously with "REDUCE RPM", for example)

Once or twice I've also had it refuse to let go of a high output after a sprinty bit, so I'm still doing 450w or whatever when I'm expecting a recovery spell

(I don't plan to do all that many workouts so it's fine, but ...)

I think that’s more down to the way the kickr estimates power output rather than what power you’re actually making.

Maybe, but I'm not convinced that there are serious user-driven peaks even given the smoothing etc. I guess I'd need to compare with a power meter to confirm, but it doesn't feel that way at any rate.

I was even going bit further then I realised I had a flat tyre. On a turbo! How can that happen?

Use the tacx utility app to check calibration. You can get flats if it’s running too tight.

I use a Snap power matched to my Stages and it’s pretty up and down! The longer you smooth it, the better it looks of course but the KICKR is notorious for producing an abnormally smooth ERG trace.

I can relax different muscles in my leg and suddenly lose 15w or adopt an aero pose and see 10w disappear. ERG shouldn’t mean flawless.

[img] [/img]

That’s mine for example.

[img] [/img]

And that’s the same workout probably done by a KICKR user 😉

Use the tacx utility app to check calibration. You can get flats if it’s running too tight.

I did that before I rode first time. I'll do it again when I re-inflate the tyre. On reflection those wheels have been hanging in the rafters for 4 years and the tyre was losing air every day. So I'm going with 'rubber perishing' in the tube as my first guess..

Day 4 of the 4 week FTP Booster, was an endurance session to do what i like for an hour.

So i thought i'd get a taster of what the course is going to be like for Sundays Zwift Fondo Series Europe - the three sisters route (Bambino Fondo), 2283ft of climbing, an hour later and a ftp rise from 194 > 204 makes me a happy but knackered chap! Sunday will be interesting, especially at 8am...

So I had this plan, ride hills for a month to get stronger and then look at racing again. So of course two weeks in I do the Tri4 Road to Ruins race. I sort of couldn't resist as I have enjoyed riding that route and it is the first time I have seen a race on it at a time which suited me.

I was a bit concerned as the legs were a bit tired from the climbing (I was basically doing one day on, one day off during the week to allow for recovery). It was also 25 degrees in my garage so I was sweating buckets even on my 10 minute warm up. Therefore for a change I decided not to kill myself in the first 2-3k of the race. After a couple of k I got into a reasonable group and got to the bottom of the first hill in 56th overall. After a couple of hundred metres of climbing I was 44th. Unfortunately this meant I was on my own for most of the Jungle loop. I was dropped by one guy near the start of it and I was caught by a couple of guys on the loop but I caught and passed one other guy and then passed another guy on the climb out. I was on my own again until I caught another guy with about 6-7k to go and we rode the rest of it together. I got to the turn into the final straight to the finish and my stomach started heaving so I had to back off a bit. The other guy sprinted to the finish in the last few hundred metres but I decided not having to clean a mess off the floor was a higher priority. We managed to hold off a group who was 30 seconds behind us for the last 5k. I was shattered at the finish and was still sweating half an hour later!

The really cool thing is I got 5th in C, set new high average of 2.9 w/kg and according to Strava PR'd the climbs so the hill work seems to be paying off. I am really happy with how it went.

Just did a Clydesdale race for those over 90kg. The top 5 averaged 4w/kg for the hour, slightly suspect

Just finished the WBR three lap hilly. Upgraded to Cat B as I averaged 3.4w/kg.

Been a bit quiet as i had a 48 hour rest. Partly as i wanted a rest day, but yesterday i swapped my KTM 690 for a newer KTM 690 and spent many hours spannering, so no time for Zwifting.

I'm thinking the 10:30am Volcano CCW should be a bit of fun later.

Just binned a ride. 37 degrees in the garage tonight. Fan or no fan that is silly.

I'm worried about dying of hypothermia later in the garage !

weeksy - I turbo outside in the garden, even in the snow! 😛

Having to do it in the lounge, the mrs, dog and little lad all mock me when i have to work hard.

I use a Snap power matched to my Stages and it’s pretty up and down! The longer you smooth it, the better it looks of course but the KICKR is notorious for producing an abnormally smooth ERG trace.

Well, according to DCRainmaker, the 2017 Kickr is pretty much spot on - the power smoothing thing affects the way power curves are presented rather than how accurately it's measured as I understand it:

https://www.dcrainmaker.com/2017/08/hands-on-wahoo-kickr-2017-edition.html

I wonder if the fact that the Snap is a wheel-on trainer makes a difference in that respect. We have a direct drive Kickr, I don't have a separate power meter for comparative measures, but DCRainmaker's pretty well respected by sport tech geeks, no?

I can relax different muscles in my leg and suddenly lose 15w or adopt an aero pose and see 10w disappear. ERG shouldn’t mean flawless.

Not sure I quite understand the point you're making. Are you saying that your Stages meter shows this, but your Snap doesn't register the change in power output?

I'm just intrigued.

I get that in ERG mode you don't precisely follow the selected power output and maybe the smoothing obscures this a little, but in practical terms, I'm not sure how far off it's possible to wander more than momentarily?

Has anyone with a Kickr noticed it vibrating, like its out of balance or something? Mine seems to have started doing it over the last month or so.

Well i entered the race as planned. ZHR volcano CCW. there were 2 cats, A and C, so i went with C as i know i can't break the 3.2 boundary over a 45 mins race.

Sat there happy really, although pushing out 177bpm which is only 5-6 below my max on many of the little kickers, i was flatting in the bunch at 170bpm and going OK. But with 800m to go a couple of people kicked on... 176, 178, 179, damn... I was putting out 3.5w/kg on the flat (340w) and getting my backside kicked ! they were all 4.5+.... I lost the bunch and that was it really.. Lost a few more seconds on the hill up to the line and finished 10th.
The thing that worries me, you see the Av HR at the end on the results table... there were 3 people there at sub 140bpm ! and a couple of 0's.

One bloke on a TT bike should get a DQ i think.

Interesting race, good power... .Just not enough at the end in the mix up.

I was putting out 3.5w/kg on the flat (340w) and getting my backside kicked ! they were all 4.5+....

Does that really matter though. Surely on the flat it's all about outright power rather than power to weight. If they weigh the same as you but are churning out more watts per kilo that's one thing, but if they're lighter, they could have a significantly higher watt per kilo output, but still be putting out less watts and on the flat, that shouldn't matter. Someone weighing 80 kilos at 4.5 w/kg would be putting out roughly the same wattage as you.

Someone lighter could actually be putting out less: e.g. a 60kg rider at 5w/kg would be putting out just 300 watts and, theoretically, would be slower than you on the flat, no? Though I guess they might be more aero by dint of being short and smaller.

I guess the fact that Zwift displays watts per kilo as default means people notice it more easily, but in a lot of situations - most stuff that isn't a climb - it's not necessarily telling you that much. It's interesting when you start relation watts per kilo to someone's power output by clicking on their name - there are a lot of sub 60kg rider on Zwift for some reason....

Sorry, just thinking aloud. I've pondered before how it's possible for me to be putting out more w/kg than someone I'm drafting, but if they're a big unit putting out decent power, its quite feasible.

And it makes basing race cats on w/kg look a bit over simplistic. You can see how really light riders with high power to weight ratio could still be properly blown away on the flat just through lack of outright power. Same as small climbers on flat tour stages in the real world.

BadlyWiredDog, discussed a few times in this thread, last time around page 225, prompted that time by this link https://zwiftinsider.com/tests/. Quite similar to real life really, unless you're climbing the Ventoux it's more about watts (and CdA) than kg. The zwift penalty for being tall does seem a bit harsh though as tall people can still be very aero.

BWD- yeah, you are spot on! Zwift and zwifters have an unhealthy obsession with w/kg thanks to the novelty of those little numbers being on display 😆
It’s the main reason the race cats and group rides end up causing so many issues- unless everyone weighs the same, it’s meaningless.

Even uphill it’s not the whole story as at the same w/kg, the heavier rider will climb faster (because to hit the same w/kg they must therefore be chucking out more power).

It’s also why I’ve stopped trying to diet and train. I don’t want to be a skinny person- I want to go fast! Which means eating enough to grow my FTP 🙂
(Although I’m cutting that balance a little too fine since Christmas 😆 )

Weeksy- are TT bikes excluded from that race?? They don’t draft but you can still draft them so it only disadvantages the rider??

Bike swaps on the fly used to be possible but Zwift changed the code sadly. They used to swap for the long descents off the mountain in a KISS race.