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Yes, it wasn't particularly a dig at you, more to say that when someone mentioned Polanski "appealing to people whose emissions are already low" it's more likely to be the precariat who live 6 to a flat in a tower block on the edge of town, have never been on a plane and in some cases never even been to the city centre.
You comfy middle class folk will bemoan your increased driving costs.
I hate to burst your bubble TJ but working class people drive too you know. In fact they're absolutely dependent on cars to get to work, do the shopping, get the kids to school etc. If your solution to climate change is to tell working people that they're not allowed to drive good luck with that.
There was a scheme where I used to live to hire electric scooters. It worked out cheaper for 1 person to catch a taxi never mind 4.
I was led to believe that you got an old Vauxhall Corsa as well as a big telly and twenty lambert and butler when you get a council house?
You comfy middle class folk will bemoan your increased driving costs.
I hate to burst your bubble TJ but working class people drive too you know. In fact they're absolutely dependent on cars to get to work, do the shopping, get the kids to school etc. If your solution to climate change is to tell working people that they're not allowed to drive good luck with that.
again with the ignorance
the poorest have very limited access to cars. Go read up on it or spend some time in poor communities
Centrists have very happily accepted the hierarchy of racism policy of SKS & McSweeney to attack the left.
I think it's silly to suggest that Adam, Hussein, Mohamed and Khan are Islamic fundamentalists. Their Muslim identity is obviously part of their platform and appeal, but no more than the numerous Christian Democratic parties across Europe.
What's equally dubious is characterising them as being of the left. Are they really Lefties rather than, say, Palestine protest vote candidates or soft right social conservatives...like most Christian Democrata?
- Adam is really a Gaza single issue candidate and MP with no political profile before 2024
- Hussain and Mohaned are basically the same, with added anti-trans, anti-abortion and pro-cousin marriage votes
- Khan was a 20 year candidate and councillor for the Liberal Democrats. He only fell out with them after he was told and refused to do anti-Semitism training in relation to his TikTok (!) videos about Gaza
How are these guys lefties? Why did anyone ever think they'd share a broad-based political platform with Sultana and Corbyn?
I've got loads of work to do before I sign off today, so obviously I thought I'd take a quick break to look up the stats on car use.
The poorest quintile drive the fewest miles, by some margin, and they also do the fewest miles as passengers in cars. The richest quintile drive the most. (but it's the 2nd richest quintile that do the most miles as passengers in cars)
Interestingly, although the lowest quintile also drive the fewest journeys, it's not actually the richest quintile that do the most - it's the 2nd richest. Which perhaps suggests that the 2nd richest do more commuting, while the richest quintile are more likely to work from home and just use the car for longer trips to places like Morzine and BPW and what have you. (incidentally, as at 2023, a salary of £48,000 would put you in the richest quintile)
Transport as an example. The poorest have least access to cars but are more effected you car pollution. A green transport and planning policy will disproportionately benefit them. You comfy middle class folk will bemoan your increased driving costs. The poorest get the benefit of more accessible services and easier and cheaper local travel
Today's government could do that but it would be an economic choice to help people who are reliant on public transport. I would make public transport free and increase availability (i.e, where I live there are two buses a day and first one is at 11:00). This would not only help those totally reliant on it but may also get a few people out of their cars (I actually used to get bus to work until the 07:15 was cancelled, although I was usually the only person on it)
I however see this as an equality thing rather than a green thing as I wouldn't be doing it for environmental impact although it could be sold as that if required.
What else have you got?
What's equally dubious is characterising them as being of the left. Are they really Lefties rather than, say, Palestine protest vote candidates or soft right social conservatives...like most Christian Democrata?
Of course they arent left wing, its an alliance of convenience rather than a political one - exactly why its destined to go wrong
You comfy middle class folk will bemoan your increased driving costs.
Interesting. Are you not "comfy middle class"?
You comfy middle class folk will bemoan your increased driving costs.
Interesting. Are you not "comfy middle class"?
very much so. but I know driving is far too cheap and that public transport which I use a lot is a much greener option. I don't own a car
ta Doris5000
the poorest have very limited access to cars.
I'm not talking about the poorest, I'm talking about working people, or the working class if you like. Working class does not equal poor. You should know this being a nurse, which is a classic working class job, along with many others where people can afford cars but cannot be described as comfortably off. These people (on the whole) need cars, and they form an enormous voting cohort which is the primary focus of most political parties who seek power. Taking people's cars away from them is a guaranteed strategy for achieving political irrelevance.
nurses are middleclass
again with the ignorance about the realities of transport and what green policies are. go read the links above from Doris5000
Like watching a clown run through a minefield
Only if the clown is bitterly stabbing itself as it runs whilst shouting at bystanders how evil they are
Hang on! Here comes a third faction! I can't keep up, it's like a whole year of left wing infighting condensed into 24 hours.
https://leftfootforward.org/2025/09/a-group-called-our-party-is-trying-to-take-over-your-party/
Some people need to brush up on their history and then they might realise that every successful societal upheaval which has resulted in an effective change of the existing status quo has had an extremely chaotic backstory.
The political vacuum in which this current drama is playing out in isn't going to just magically disappear. However things pan out the political vacuum on the left of the UK political spectrum will either continue to exist or will be filled.
Like watching a clown run through a minefield
A clown would probably do better than average in a minefield. The giant shoes would spread out their body weight so there would be less downward pressure per square inch and they'd be less likely to set off the mines.
You comfy middle class folk will bemoan your increased driving costs.
Interesting. Are you not "comfy middle class"?
very much so. but I know driving is far too cheap and that public transport which I use a lot is a much greener option. I don't own a car
Don't you live in a city centre? Some of the poorest live in rural areas, rural deprevation, and they have to have car.
Some of the poorest live in rural areas, rural deprevation, and they have to have car.
So let me get this straight - you're saying that if there was better and more affordable public transport, poor people in rural areas might be less dependent on owning a car, and could save money while also saving the environment? I like it!
A group called ‘Our Party’ is trying to take over ‘Your Party’
of course they are. Give it another week and there will be another faction called ‘Their Party’ trying to take over ‘Our Party’, who have taken legal action against ‘Your Party’
And they wonder why everyone sane in the Labour Party just despaired when Magic Grandad accidentally found himself in the top job, or frankly anywhere outside Islington.
Sixth form placard wavers. Clowns, the lot of them.
He’s now returned to his natural state, how he spent his entire ‘career’, such as it is.
And as for those who had any belief in him, then or now….
You comfy middle class folk will bemoan your increased driving costs.
Interesting. Are you not "comfy middle class"?
very much so. but I know driving is far too cheap and that public transport which I use a lot is a much greener option. I don't own a car
Don't you live in a city centre? Some of the poorest live in rural areas, rural deprevation, and they have to have car.
poorest folk do not have access to cars rural or urban
And they wonder why everyone sane in the Labour Party
Absolutely. It's the sensible folk in the PLP making it the towering success we see today.
You comfy middle class folk will bemoan your increased driving costs. The poorest get the benefit of more accessible services and easier and cheaper local travel
Don’t forget us 1 bedroom/social housing disability benefit scroungers who live in very rural/isolated areas with zero public transport that is accessible, not everyone lives in towns/cities.
What do we want…………..we want cheap Chinese electric cars that are charged by solar on our roofs, we also want free weed and munchies
(I’m just being argumentative 😏 )
Well in my Green utopia somafunk you would have a warm easily heated home, access to community owned transport and services and facilities local to you.
less need to move you around and when that movement is needed a cheaper more convenient and less polluting way to move
10 000 new members for the greens
Well in my Green utopia somafunk you would have a warm easily heated home, access to community owned transport and services and facilities local to you.
less need to move you around and when that movement is needed a cheaper more convenient and less polluting way to move
you almost had me but no mention of free weed and unlimited munchies so i’m out 😆
Forgot to add this, choose your target
https://twitter.com/boweschay/status/1968813634710065644?s=46&t=qvPR6lBfBXtAWZ-6beFWyA
poorest folk do not have access to cars rural or urban
The data provided by Doris I think says 6 in 10 of the poorest 5th have access to a car.
I need to go take a look at what the greens plans currently are for public transportation, it's something I can only see being meaningful if improvements are made to quality, speed, reliability and depth of network mainly once away from travelling to and from urban centres and very major sites such as universities etc in advance of trying to shift people out of cars.
But… people are already “out of cars”. Especially poor people. If it became more normal for people with a good income, or wealth, to also be “out of cars”, then there would be increased political pressure and the money of those better off people bearing down on public transport availability and quality. In areas where bus routes and train services have been cut, it is because not enough people were using them. Especially people with political capital (and actual capital).
But… people are already “out of cars”. Especially poor people.
Apparently 6 in 10 of the poorest 5th are "in" cars. And they will almost certainly be the hardest hit in moving people further "out" of cars. As they're pretty much always the hardest hit with anything.
If it became more normal for people
Well, yes. But pointing that out isn't the trick is it, it's getting to that point.
Which is why I'm needing to take a fresh look at what the Greens are actually up to on this topic.
community owned transport
Will that just be a recipe for finding that the last member of the "community" left the people carrier full of discarded nappies and sick, and the tank half full of petrol instead of diesel?
Apparently 6 in 10 of the poorest 5th are "in" cars.
Have access to a car. Family of four, all have access to a car, one car, four jobs, four commutes… it’s not just carless households that are dependent on public transport. Anyway, while the better off, with their multicar households, can avoid public transport, there is a ceiling on how much public transport will improve. Political decisions to get people “out of cars” needs to be included alongside improving public transport provision, just doing the second will always have its limits.
[ add in cycling space provision along aside public transport above, obvs ]
You need to design a public transport system that everyone wants to use and buys into, as we had in Switzerland. Rarely needed a car there and when you did we could use the ubiquitous car sharing scheme.
Unfortunately like Ireland it's very hard to get people out of their cars.
Good luck with that.
Meanwhile, at the risk of being on topic for the thread, Zarah Sultana has said that she is going to be suing all the people who said naughty things about her over the last few days.
I have to hand it to her: if you wanted to burn through as much time and money as possible, then defamation proceedings over social media statements in the middle of a political spat is probably the second best way to do it (after buying a boat or Land Rover, obviously). Let's all instruct defamation lawyers at £xxx an hour!
Have access to a car. Family of four, all have access to a car, one car, four jobs, four commutes… it’s not just carless households
That's a very specific scenario I'm going to assume you've concocted to make a point. It's more likely that the family of four is two adults, one commuting by car, one by public transport, with two children not old enough to drive.
Not that any of that matters, especially as it's all just "let's make up scenarios". As what counts is, can you convince them to swap that car for total reliance on public transport. And not just that income bracket...but all of them.
Political decisions to get people “out of cars” needs to be included alongside improving public transport provision, just doing the second will always have its limits.
I agree. But I also believe the second has to be in place for the first to work.
Personally, and admittedly from a position of ignorance on the subject. I'd make local public transportation free at the point of use, issue travel cards, with the operators paid based on those travel cards journeys and the payments made through general taxation. Then as/if people start to move onto "free" public transportation the network and capacity gets scaled up.
You need to design a public transport system that everyone wants to use and buys into, as we had in Switzerland
Or London. Our kid lives in central London and has never had a car as she says it’d be a liability and she doesn’t need one as the public transport is so good. Her train journey ooop north to see us takes under 2 hours.
Things are improving around Manchester now that Andy Burnham has been able to take back control of the bus services, London style, but it’s still not actually possible for me to use public transport for my ten mile commute to work. Well…. without huge detours and multiple changes.
Getting into Manchester city centre is now pretty easy, but getting from one part of Greater Manchester to another can be an absolute nightmare, or in a lot of cases simply not realistically possible.
For a huge, densely-populated urban conurbation this is absolutely crazy, but it’s the legacy of decades of under - or frankly nonexistent - investment and private providers only interested in cherrypicking the most profitable routes.
It’s going to be a big job to fix it, but at least there’s now a will to do so.
Meanwhile, at the risk of being on topic for the thread, Zarah Sultana has said that she is going to be suing all the people who said naughty things about her over the last few days.
And let’s be honest, other than providing us all with a bit of amusement, in a “have you seen what those mad lefties are up to now?” way, it’s completely pointless.
Nobody cares. It’s literally two bald men fighting over a comb
Or London
Yes but the Swiss system is rural and urban.
I know. I was agreeing and saying that London shows that this country is quite capable of doing it when it wants to. Where there’s a will and proper investment.
Manchester is now trying to replicate that and it’s a bold long-term ambition. There’s a long way to go. As I said, I live ten miles away from where I work and it isn’t realistically possible for me to use public transport, so like so many others I have no option but to use the living hell that is the M60.
I could ride, I suppose, but the roads I’d have to navigate would be very far from enjoyable and to be honest, potentially life-threatening. I’m sure the infrastructure for cycling in Switzerland is considerably better too.
nurses are middleclass
Only if they’re married to doctors 😀
Seriously I know a few nurses and they definitely don’t regard themselves as middle class. Skilled working class most definitely, but not middle class. Seems like everyone wants to be middle class these days!
He’s now returned to his natural state
As have you. Sigh.
Oh come on, DrJ. Even you've got to admit that this is funny. In fact, its bloody hilarious at a time where there isn't that much to laugh about!
Its like they actually watched the Life of Brian and took it as a blueprint and thought "how can we go about this where we tick every single 'loony' lefty cliche in the book?"
I mean, its less than 2 months since they started this supposed new party. There's only two of them yet they fell out and started publicly bickering on day one, even screwing up the 'launch' (is it a launch?/isn't it?). Since then theres been the usual 'piss up in a brewery' activity and here we are, literally weeks later, with them taking legal action against each other.
You couldn't make it up. Actually... Monty Python already did 🤣
Astonishing the amazing mess Labour have made in government but we're queuing up to giggle at pretty much nothing.
A bit of self-reflection for the people that thought they were pushing against the right only to embed it and then whilst doing that employ 'the mandy.'
This would be 10 x funnier than the Corbyn situation if they weren't in ****ing government.
16% percent you say?
It's really perplexing when then good old confused 'progressive' right-wing centrists that have made a mess of everything they touch are now back in the have a go at the 'lefty' camp. I suppose they've had enough of being mocked for their appalling judgment.
Well done in everything you have achieved so far.