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Seriously I know a few nurses and they definitely don’t regard themselves as middle class. Skilled working class most definitely, but not middle class
That’s the ones who can actually get a job.
nurses are middleclass
Only if they’re married to doctors 😀
Seriously I know a few nurses and they definitely don’t regard themselves as middle class. Skilled working class most definitely, but not middle class. Seems like everyone wants to be middle class these days!
degree qualified paid above average salary. Salaried. middle class. go read up.
people love to claim working class when they are not
Astonishing the amazing mess Labour have made in government but we're queuing up to giggle at pretty much nothing.
This thread is about YourParty, there's an entire thread dedicated to criticizing the shambles of the current government masquerading as a Labour party. And I'm not seeing much of a queue for giggles beyond a couple of posters. I suspect there's more who feel as I do, exasperated at an entire life spent waiting for the left to get into a position to effect positive change, only to watch them fail year after year.
I genuinely hope they get their sh*t together, I'm just too cynical after decades of watching them f*ck it up to believe they will.
I'm probably going to be forced to vote SNP or Labour anyway, whichever looks most likely to keep Reform out of my constituency.
Astonishing the amazing mess Labour have made in government but we're queuing up to giggle at pretty much nothing.
A radical suggestion here: why don't we stop justifying Corbyn's failures with Starmer's and vice versa? They each have to stand on their own record; one is not responsible for the other's ****ups or (hypothetically) breakthroughs. Whataboutery is a total waste of time. There is a whole thread about Starmer's government; this one is about Your Party. Don't complain that people are discussing Your Party.on it!
Oh come on, DrJ. Even you've got to admit that this is funny. In fact, its bloody hilarious at a time where there isn't that much to laugh about!
Sure it’s funny. What’s not funny is the endless stream of Monty Python memes.
I wonder what Zara Sultana's constituants are making of this ongoing farce? She is meant to be representing their interests after all, but I'm persuming none of them voted for this sort of nonsense?
It's kinda funny, I mean there's only two of them, how is it even possible to have a public spat, even if they are at logerheads over [insert thing]?
Imagine the chaos and dissagreement when they have more than two candidates, it will be like, dare I say... the labour party when he was still in it? 🤣
It's kinda funny, I mean there's only two of them, how is it even possible to have a public spat, even if they are at logerheads over [insert thing]?
Imagine the chaos and dissagreement when they have more than two candidates, it will be like, dare I say... the labour party when he was still in it?
It illustrates very well the quality of the two people involved, or should I say lack of quality.
then they might realise that every successful societal upheaval which has resulted in an effective change of the existing status quo has had an extremely chaotic backstory.
I think your crystal ball's due a service
then they might realise that every successful societal upheaval which has resulted in an effective change of the existing status quo has had an extremely chaotic backstory.
Indeed. Who can forget Nelson Mandellas famous legal action about the ANC's memership portal direct debit mandate?
people love to claim working class when they are not
So working class people can’t be educated and well paid? If I didn’t know better I’d be calling snobbery. You don’t suddenly become middle class when you graduate from uni or get a slightly above average paid job.
I don't see why not. As we know from Kemi, despite a life of privilege, you immediately become working class if you get a job in McDonalds, so surely the reverse applies?
then they might realise that every successful societal upheaval which has resulted in an effective change of the existing status quo has had an extremely chaotic backstory.
Indeed. Who can forget Nelson Mandellas famous legal action about the ANC's memership portal direct debit mandate?
Well you have obviously forgotten how the Labour Party was founded, although in all likelihood you probably never knew. It was total chaos consisting of a multitude of warring factions, the Labour Party didn't even have a leader in the early years despite getting two MPs elected!
Yes every grassroot movement which has successfully challenged the status quo and brought about change, from the French Revolution to the foundation of the Labour Party, has been racked by division and internal strife.
That of course includes the ANC which you bizarrely brought up. Maybe focus more on learning history and perhaps less on ill-informed sarcastic remarks? 💡
I would be deeply suspicious of a mass grassroot movement which was founded in a slick trouble-free operation with no internal strife. It would suggest the hand of the establishment and that powerful players were behind the project.
By definition a grassroot movement is the mass involvement of ordinary people. Ordinary people with very strong views and convictions but not all with the same identical opinions. As the movement becomes established, and its aims, priorities, and structures, are agreed, then the discipline associated with accepting the democratic will within an organisation comes to the forefront.
Personally I welcome if it is true that 10,000 of the 750,000 who have expressed an interest have now joined the Greens because they want a party that doesn't engage in debate and self-criticism as it is being established, I can't see them being an asset to the project.
Britain needs a party whose aims, priorities, and structures, are openly debated without fear, not some sort of political cult.
I see my milk has gone off
Britain needs a party whose aims, priorities, and structures, are openly debated without fear, not some sort of political cult.
Well, best look elsewhere then.
It would suggest the hand of the establishment and that powerful players were behind the project.
you can't spell competence without conspiracy
Britain needs a party whose aims, priorities, and structures, are openly debated without fear, not some sort of political cult.
Well, best look elsewhere then.
The accepted definition of a cult is a project which is led by a charismatic and authoritarian leader, you can see that in this particular project?
Obviously we can dismiss Jeremy Corbyn on both those counts, and he hasn't even declared that he wants to be leader yet. Zahra Sultana probably fulfills the charismatic requirement to at least a small degree but I have seen no evidence that should she become leader she would lead with authoritarian iron grip.
The obvious candidate for that title would appear to be the Labour Party despite the fact that Sir Keir Starmer clearly only satisfies one of those two requirements.
Indeed I have heard the Labour Party being described as the cult of the personality but without a personality. Which does sound very apt.
Britain needs a party whose aims, priorities, and structures, are openly debated without fear, not some sort of political cult.
I can agree with that
Indeed I have heard the Labour Party being described as the cult of the personality but without a personality. Which does sound very apt.
And that 🙂
This thread has a sense of deja vu that I can't put my finger on, mainly because on my phone the UI has turned into notepad.
Well you have obviously forgotten how the Labour Party was founded, although in all likelihood you probably never knewW
What did you do during the war grandad?
Well you have obviously forgotten how the Labour Party was founded, although in all likelihood you probably never knewW
What did you do during the war grandad?
How is that relevant to you not understanding how the Labour Party was formed and the huge internal strife which invariably occur when mass grassroot movements that challenge the status quo come together?
I appreciate that this thread is a useful vehicle for you to channel your bountiful political energy into as the one about the UK government is clearly a deep embarrassment to you, as the clown in charge of the UK government staggers from one disaster of his own making to the next one, but how about some sort of vague coherence?
Wasn't the Labour Party founded 125 years ago when Corbyn was a 6th former?
huge internal strife which invariably occur when mass grassroot movements that challenge the status quo come together?
Jeremy Corbyn and Zara Sultana failing to start a political party, then ending up taking legal action against each other is hardly ‘huge internal strife which invariably occur when mass grassroot movements that challenge the status quo come together’, is it?
It’s an absolutely laughable farce! An exercise in competitive, self-indulgent, middle class virtue-signalling. And it turns out that those around the beardy messiah are a bunch of sexist misogynists. Well who’d have thunk it?
Obviously we can dismiss Jeremy Corbyn on both those counts
Corbyn has an ego the size of a bus, that should be obvious to anyone. It's why this project is mired in shit, he's had a taste of leadership, people chanting his name at Glastonbury and facing the prospect of returning to the backbenches where he'll be all but ignored has launched the "Keep Corbyn relevant' party, and is now pissed off because someone other than him might become the face of socialism in this country. Typical ****ing Boomer, just retire, and let other people have a go. All I hope for now is that at some point he'll realise that he does more harm to the socialist movement than the bloody Daily Mail and **** off to his kitchen for good to make jam.
Corbyn has an ego the size of a bus... facing the prospect of returning to the backbenches where he'll be all but ignored has launched the "Keep Corbyn relevant' party
This is absolute cobblers. If he were such a egoist, he would have formed the party 5 years ago when he was sent to the backbenches. Instead, it's the opposite - he's been fluffing around with seven different initiatives and coalitions, and he's so keen on committees and collective decision making that Sultana lost her patience and proclaimed the party in an effort to stop him dithering.
I'm a Corbyn critic but the problem is not his ego.
Jeremy Corbyn and Zara Sultana failing to start a political party
Where is the evidence that they are failing to establish a new political party? With 750,000 expressing an interest it more than likely a new political party will be launched.
The idea that a newly established mass grassroots movement involving hundreds of thousands of individuals can be established in a totally disciplined way without any internal strife is frankly absurd.
When in history has that ever happened? You yourself used the example of the ANC in attempt to deploy your usual sarcastic ridicule tactic and yet the ANC has been racked by massive internal conflict and divisions from the moment of its inception. That hasn't stopped the ANC from achieving considerable success though.
Obviously no one involved in the new movement wants this internal strife and divisions and everything should be done to overcome them but they are an inevitable consequence of a mass movement establishing itself, as history has taught us.
IMO it would stink to high heaven is the whole process of establishing a new political party occured without a hint of dissent, as you seem to think it should, or at least claim you think it should.
On Wednesday there will be a meeting locally to discuss the situation, I can guarantee that it won't be suitable for anyone who likes the warm reassurance of living in an echo chamber.
Obviously we can dismiss Jeremy Corbyn on both those counts
Corbyn has an ego the size of a bus, that should be obvious to anyone.
Who mentioned anything about egos?
I said that the widely accepted definition of a "cult" was a project led by a charismatic and authoritarian leader, and that Jeremy Corbyn clearly fails on both those counts.
Do you dispute any of that?
It's alright, everyone! Sultana's dropping the legal action against the people who said defamatory things against her.
Threatened legal action at 11pm on a Friday morning, withdraws it on Sunday night. 🤔 I've had weekends like that... 🤔🤔🤔
Where is the evidence that they are failing to establish a new political party
Eh? You know they’re presently taking legal action against each other, right? Or maybe they now aren’t? Piss ups? Breweries?
And their new ‘party’ doesn’t even have a name as they can’t decide whether they’re the people’s Front of Judea or the Popular Peoples Front of Judea?
On Wednesday there will be a meeting locally to discuss the situation, I can guarantee that it won't be suitable for anyone who likes the warm reassurance of living in an echo chamber.
Something for everyone to look forward to…
Splitters.
Eh? You know they’re presently taking legal action against each other, right?
Yes. At least they were.
Where is your evidence that they are failing to establish a political party?
Threatened legal action at 11pm on a Friday morning, withdraws it on Sunday night. 🤔 I've had weekends like that... 🤔🤔🤔
It won't be because she suddenly changed her mind after thinking about it. It's known that some political heavyweights were getting on the case with the intention of banging heads together. Zahra Sultana will have been under intense pressure over the weekend. And quite right too.
And in case anyone thinks that taking legal action against your opponents within a political party is the sign of a non-functioning party that couldn't organise a piss up in a brewery :
https://www.bbc.com/news/articles/c3ggr3pg4ljo
"The action is estimated to have cost the party millions of pounds, which critics said could otherwise have been spent on the general election campaign."
Muppets.
I can guarantee that it won't be suitable for anyone who likes the warm reassurance of living in an echo chamber.
It'll be the same as every other meeting of these folks I've ever been to, It'll be rousing condemnation of which ever current thing they can't effect or do anything about; the plight of striking prune pickers of Panama, or the police brutality shown to the hose clampers of Caracas - Brothers, and then it'll endless disagreements about section 3 subsection D of the handbook where there's a comma, and the word 'but...' (or in this case a plan to charge membership) Chairs will be thrown, accusations of who stood closest to the grave of a departed venerated member, and a number not limited to one will storm out.
Corbyn is the still living corpse of 80's left wing thought, for him it'll be like a warm blanket. Of course it'll be a echo-chamber.
It's known that some political heavyweights were getting on the case with the intention of banging heads together
Richard Burgon?
Weird double post
Richard Burgon
Richard Burgon vehemently denies pressuring Zarah Sultana to drop the litigation. Unless you've got him recorded on video as doing it, in which case maybe he did.
I suspect Sultana simply found out how much defamation lawyers cost.
Of course it'll be a echo-chamber.
I know what it will be like, I went to the first meeting about a month ago. Do you think that any meeting I attend everyone is in agreement 😉
It certainly won't be an echo chamber.
the plight of striking prune pickers of Panama
Are you trying outdo binners with the inane comments of contempt?
Palestine will almost certainly come up because not only is there a genocide currently going on there, which is having political/diplomatic consequences for the UK government, but also because it is linked to the growth of the far-right in the United States, across Europe, and of course now the UK, and this global far-right development poses a serious threat to us all.
It certainly won't be an echo chamber.
No it'll be a full on row about which non consequential hill they are going to die on next.
Palestine will almost certainly come up
It's obviously a very serious issue, and complex, but I'm not sure there's a clear link between what the genocidal Israeli regime is doing and the rise of the right wing across the western world. Important as Gaza is on the world stage it's not really the sort of thing that a new UK party should be spending a lot of time on if they want to quickly grab the attention of enough UK voters to gain traction. I'm pretty sure the IDF killing civilians isn't emboldening people in the UK to hang flags from lamposts.
Are you trying outdo binners with the inane comments of contempt?
I'm contemptuous because the very last people in any list of the far left MPs that they want to help are the folks they're literally paid to; working folks in their own constituencies The statement on their own website tells everyone what their priorities are: Corporations, re-nationalisation and Palestine. All those things are worthy for sure, but they're all meaningless to someone struggling in min wage or zero hours. and It's why MPs like Corbyn are treated with suspicion by everyday people.
what people want to hear is how their lives are going to be made better, how Your Party are going to make sure the local schools are good, that the police will come when you call them, that you can get a GP appt. What they don't want to hear that other people have it worse than they do ( despite the fact that's objectively true)
There's nothing for people to vote for here, there's just meaningless vacuous political statements. It's just virtue signal bingo, the only thing the far left are good for.
No it'll be a full on row about which non consequential hill they are going to die on next.
Well if it is inconsequential you will be hugely relieved when the new party does extremely badly in next year's local elections and wins no seats at all in the next general election.
Or alternatively very disappointed if that prophecy isn't fulfilled.
It's obviously a very serious issue, and complex, but I'm not sure there's a clear link between what the genocidal Israeli regime is doing and the rise of the right wing across the western world.
Donald Trump, Nigel Farage, Tommy Robinson, and Geert Wilders, to name just a few far-right neo-fascist politicians, very strongly support Israel and its brutal genocide in Gaza.
And for very good reasons.......it feeds the islamophobia which is currently galvanising the far-right across the western world. Islamophobia is the vehicle which the far-right uses today in its quest for power, nearly a hundred years ago it was anti-jewish hatred.
It is no accident that the Palestinian flag was ripped up on the stage during a rally of over a hundred thousand far-right supporters in London a few days ago. They know the significance of Palestine.
Therefore Palestine's struggle is our struggle, if you are opposed to the far-right, bigotry, and fascism.....if that is the case ignore the issue at your peril.
Plus apartheid is classified as a crime against humanity tolerating its existence strongly undermines the rule of international law something which everyone should be concerned about.
"We know too well that our freedom is incomplete without freedom of the Palestinians"
- Nelson Mandela
what people want to hear is how their lives are going to be made better
Is that what voters want to hear? Someone should tell Sir Keir Starmer......support for Labour under him has slumped to half of what it was under Corbyn.
People are fed with claims by Labour that "no hope is better than false hope". They want to hear politicians offering hope.
The idea that hope can't be on the agenda is ridiculous.
what people want to hear is how their lives are going to be made better
Me and you both.