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There is not a chance of them having any influence whatsoever.
Yeah, but that's kind of like saying UKIP had no influence on UK politics because they never won a seat.
Out of all the parties, I would say UKIP have had more influence on the UK's direction of travel than any other party so far this century. They did that by taking votes from the Tories (and later from Labour in their Reform guise) which forced both the main parties to chase UKIP/Reform votes which led to Brexit, which led to Johnson, which led to Starmer's numerous u-turns, etc.
One of the peculiarities of democracies is once you've give a party your vote they have no use for you. It's the people who vote for other parties they are keen to impress.
with 15% of the vote mainly taken from labour
That's a very bold statement. Their support is likely to come from potential Labour, Green, LibDem, Reform, and people who can't be arsed to vote.
I think the fact that they are likely to stop Labour forming a majority government is absolutely brilliant, we have a majority Labour government right now and look at what a shower of ****z they have turned out to be.
Not that Labour stood any chance whatsoever of winning the next general election even before the announcement of the new party, the difference now is that with the new populist party potentially draining support away from Reform there is a greater chance of a rainbow coalition and less of a chance of a Reform-Tory coalition.
British politics is moving forward.
That 15% would not be voting for Labour next time. Labour are no longer the home of the left-wing vote - that was flaking way before this.
How it divies up over the next few years - I think we're in for a ride. Starmer has his work cut out. The Stock market is detached from fundamentals now - that is crashy/toppy territory in my opinion.
But I do know this, if that clown that is Starmer pushed the water nationalisation button he could get a fair few voters back. In fact despite Labour seemingly unable to deliver for public good - there will be a reckoning if Labour jump in to save finance (if and when it happens) and not public services. Voters will absolutely not tolerate 2008 again.
It's going to be rocky if certain scenarios play out.
I think the fact that they are likely to stop Labour forming a majority government is absolutely brilliant, we have a majority Labour government right now and look at what a shower of ****z they have turned out to be.
The bonkers logic of this government was to turn up to the party having used the votes from desperate people - but offering up the worst possible 'solutions' to a desperate society.
The lack of IQ and research in thinking this was a good plan it utterly delusional.
And bad for us all - which at least will create a breeding ground for better progressive solutions.
I bet Jeremy Corbyn's first priority wouldn't be to stick his hand in the sweet jar.
Have you also counted how many chickens he's got based on the number of eggs at his allotment?
Have you even counted how many straws you are desperately clinging to?
Your claim that YourParty is going to get as many votes as Labour at the next General Election is just as far-fetched as TJ's suggestion that they'll be totally irrelevant.
Your claim that YourParty is going to get as many votes as Labour at the next General Election is just as far-fetched as TJ's suggestion that they'll be totally irrelevant.
Don't forget that Starmer has 4 more years left to really **** it up and make sure any people who are still clinging on will have given upon him.
I wouldn't say Starmer is worse than if the tories had remained in power but for people who are not looking that deeply I am not sure they would see or feel any difference. I guess Labour could realise that and get rid of Starmer whose replacement could then get rid of Reeves and Cooper but who knows.
Your claim that YourParty is going to get as many votes as Labour at the next General Election is just as far-fetched as TJ's suggestion that they'll be totally irrelevant.
A lot can happen between now and then. However, just looking at Labour's direction in the polls and the fact Corbyn and Sultana's party's 'sparse' looking website (that I could only find by going via wikipedia) has had 600,000 people sign up to it already, which direction would you say things are going in and how are things going to improve for Labour in the next three years?
I'd say there's about as much chance of Your Party getting as many votes as Labour as there is of Labour winning an overall majority in the next election.
Your Party getting as many votes as Labour
Completely possible. Would probably result in single figure number of “Your” Party MPs, about 150 Labour MPs, fewer Green and LibDem MPs, more SNP MPs … and the achievement of what would otherwise seem impossible… Reform and the Tories as the two largest parties in the UK parliament.
Reform and the Tories as the two largest parties in the UK parliament. Great.
Starmer is 100% responsible for that happening, but must remember Corbyn is the baddy here.
Labour are very much responsible for their own low poll ratings, but Labour coming third at an election on seat count can only really happen with the setting up of this party. Otherwise we’re probably looking at Reform and Labour being the two largest parties on vote share, with Labour likely coming second on vote share but still having the most seats in parliament. Let’s all be honest here, if this new party does well on election day, it will still have very few MPs, little say over how our country is run, yet deliver a gift to the Reform and Tories beyond their wildest dreams. The Conservative Party in particular must be hoping Corbyn goes all the way to the next general election with this, and praying his (sorry, “Your”) party fields candidates in as many seats as possible.
Labour are very much responsible for their own low poll ratings, but Labour coming third at an election on seat count can only really happen with the setting up of this party. Otherwise we’re probably looking at Reform and Labour being the two largest parties on vote share, with Labour likely coming second on vote share but still having the most seats in parliament. Let’s all be honest here, if this new party does well on election day, it will still have very few MPs, little say over how our country is run, yet deliver a gift to the Reform and Tories beyond their wildest dreams. The Conservative Party in particular must be hoping Corbyn goes all the way to the next general election with this, and praying his (sorry, “Your”) party fields candidates in as many seats as possible.
The problem is this isn't a football game. The outcome of an election in terms of seat count (ie your team winning or losing) is not as important as the outcome of an election in terms of the direction of the country.
At the moment Reform are pulling all the strings and dictating the direction of the country. As things stand they are going to continue doing that after the next election whether they get the most seats or not.
A proper left party that is taking votes from Labour and Reform is the only way to start turning the ship around.
And honestly, Reform having any kind of power is Farage's worst nightmare. All the years of telling people how amazing their lives could be would be exposed in a matter of months. Farage is more terrified of Your Party than anyone, both because it offers a proper alternative to Reform and because, like you say, it might actually mean he ends up with some kind of responsibility he can't hide from.
but Labour coming third at an election on seat count can only really happen with the setting up of this party.
I am not sure its that simple. Aside from anything else people could just stay home instead.
Of course Labour could try appealing to those likely to defect to this new party vs their futile quest to appeal to the reform voters.
Cant see Starmer and McSweeney going for that though.
That's a very bold statement. Their support is likely to come from potential Labour, Green, LibDem, Reform, and people who can't be arsed to vote.
I would suggest it’s a very bold statement that Reform voters are likely to move to Corbyn. I’m sure someone will find one but it’s hard to see how
The problem is this isn't a football game.
Quite true. Never said it was. Outcomes do matter though. What’s the outcome of this new party doing “well” at the next general election? Fewer Labour MPs, fewer Green MPs, fewer LibDem MPs, more Conservative MPs, More Reform MPs… and a few MPs from this new party. If you’re hoping that a parliament overwhelmingly staffed with Reform and Tory MPs will change the “direction” of the UK… well, they may do, but not in ways I’d welcome, personally.
There is the chance that this new party might change the “direction” of UK politics in the next few years, and then quietly step back, or fade in importance before a general election, claiming job done. In which case, it might prove to be a powerful force for good. Who knows. I find it far more likely that we’ll have a USA style nonsense whipping up of fear of “the Left” on the way to the next election, strengthening the hand of Reform in many more seats, while also given the Conservative a way back in some areas.
I find it far more likely that we’ll have a USA style nonsense whipping up of fear of “the Left
That has been around in the UK since murdoch took control of the sun, its way too late to put that genie back in the bottle. And your argument against this new party is giving victory to the fear of the left narrative, it is just so illogical, and seeing that Starmer has taken labour comfortably into traditional tory ground, it is something that needs fighting back against rather than further conceding to.
it is something that needs fighting back against rather than further conceding to
Agreed. Labour MPs have forced change on this government on Gaza, WFA & PiP. Plenty more fighting back required though. A new party might help with that. That would be welcome. But we can’t ignore the obvious… splitting the vote at a general election is likely to hand power to Reform and the Tories, and then we’d be relying on THEIR new MPs to hold THEIR government to account: >>shudder<<
is just as far-fetched as TJ's suggestion that they'll be totally irrelevant.
Oh they will be relevant in that they will prevent a labour government without actually getting any significant representation in Parliament
What they will not do is achieve anything positive IMO. They will have no influence on policy, few representatives and will achieve nothing. the history of british politics is littered with splinter parties who make a huge splash and then disappear.
All they will do is ensure our next government is a hard right one
We have a labour government, and it is a right wing labour government. The arguments against having a party on the left are arguments for disenfranchisement and for the right wing narrative.
Peoples lives are getting worse, and labour aren't effecting even the speed at which it is happening, so lets have a democratic opportunity to vote for change.
lets have a democratic opportunity to vote for change
Is the Green Party not on the Left?
It’s great to have more options… under a voting system where eveyone’s vote counts. Under UK Parliamentary elections, the real likely outcome of more fragmentation is obvious.
Agreed. Labour MPs have forced change on this government on Gaza, WFA & PiP. Plenty more fighting back required though. A new party might help with that. That would be welcome. But we can’t ignore the obvious… splitting the vote at a general election is likely to hand power to Reform and the Tories, and then we’d be relying on THEIR new MPs to hold THEIR government to account: >>shudder<<
It absolutely is a danger, but I don't think UKIP/Reform ever actually cost the Tories an election. Despite this they still managed to drag the Tories (and therefore Labour) to where we find ourselves now.
Anything can happen, of course, but if a progressive party can start dragging Labour back (and by extension the Tories) then I don't see how that isn't a good thing.
It is seen rightly or wrongly as only addressing environmental issues, an argument that many of the STW centrists made before the last election to claim a vote for greens is a vote for the Tories, unsurprisingly the very tactic you know want to regurgitate against this new left wing party.
It absolutely is a danger, but I don't think UKIP/Reform ever actually cost the Tories an election.
they cost them the last election - certainly without reform labour would not have had a majority
Anything can happen, of course, but if a progressive party can start dragging Labour back (and by extension the Tories) then I don't see how that isn't a good thing.
I hope it pans out that way.
lets have a democratic opportunity to vote for change
Is the Green Party not on the Left?
It’s great to have more options… under a voting system where eveyone’s vote counts. Under UK Parliamentary elections, the real likely outcome of more fragmentation is obvious.
Scotland and Wales have had non-FPTP voting systems for 20 years, and plenty more options on the left and right. What happened there?
That's a very bold statement. Their support is likely to come from potential Labour, Green, LibDem, Reform, and people who can't be arsed to vote.
I would suggest it’s a very bold statement that Reform voters are likely to move to Corbyn. I’m sure someone will find one but it’s hard to see how
I don't know if you are following events very closely but Reform has apparently doubled their support since the general election a year ago,. where do you think these votes have come from?
These are very obviously not committed Reform voters some of them haven't yet even got round to voting for Reform, they could easily go elsewhere.
Sir Keir Starmer has been desperately trying to woo them back to Labour but it is clear that a majority of Reform supporters think he is a right **** and prefer Jeremy Corbyn to him.
Which of the two do you think is more likely to woo them, Sir Keir Starmer or Jeremy Corbyn?
Is the Green Party not on the Left?
The Green Party's position on many issues is to the left of both the Tories and Labour which must therefore define them as left-wing but they have no ideological commitment to socialism or even social-democracy.
The new party will have at its core left-wing founding principles and aims. I hesitate to use the term socialist although that is how the Morning Star is currently describing the party.
We shall see what their constitution says. I understand that Zahra Sultana's preferred name for the party is "The Left Party" presumably like the Die Linke party in Germany, because she says that it would then say what it does on the tin.
The Green Party is not a socialist party even if it appears to be left-wing when compared to the Tories and Labour, which is presumably why in recent years a growing number of Tory voters have been persuaded to vote for the Greens
https://www.bbc.com/news/uk-england-suffolk-65502654
unsurprisingly the very tactic you know want to regurgitate against this new left wing party.
Its been amusing seen a bunch of people switching from "we lied about wanting a broad church and now we have power why dont you **** off and start your own party" to "wait we didnt mean that. What we meant was you should shut up and just keep voting for us".
But we can’t ignore the obvious… splitting the vote at a general election is likely to hand power to Reform and the Tories
The vote has potentially been split when the leader of Labour said they could leave if they didn't like it.
Reform were already ahead before any mention of a new party.
Maybe not being very good in power is the central reason people vote for other parties?
Their support is likely to come from potential Labour, Green, LibDem, Reform, and people who can't be arsed to vote.
They will not take green votes at all. A green vote in FPTP is a vote on principle for an ideal. This new group are not a green party and will not attract idealist green voters
The problem in this country is that you need the support of the hate press.
Reform are as good as in , given their non stop blanket coverage.
Starmer is trying to compete with that. What he should really do is give us P.R so we don’t have the rest of my life under ConForm.
Same as Biden should have recognised his shortcomings, Starmer needs to plan for the worst.
They will not take green votes at all.
You think that YouGov have got all wrong ?
https://twitter.com/YouGov/status/1942888227485974562
And since you earlier claimed that the new party will damage Labour am I right in assuming you think their support will come mostly from Labour supporters?
and now we have power why dont you **** off and start your own party"
Keir Starmer could not possibly have been more emphatic here in saying that he had irreversibly changed the party and that even future leaders would not be able to change it back again, and finally he told anyone who wasn't happy with the changes that he had made to leave.
https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/av/uk-politics-64649299
Perhaps he should have added...... " But don't start your own political party FFS, just keep voting for me"
They will not take green votes at all.
Oh, they will. The Green Party (of E&W) vote (and MP count) will be halved by this party if it stands candidates in all seats at the next election. The only parties (in E&W) that won’t lose out are Reform and the Conservatives… Corbyn has the chance to gift them a general election.
Still trying to blame Corbyn for Starmers complete **** up and swing to the right. How about the centrists take a bit of responsibility for the mess they have created, you know like they hypocritically demand everyone else do.
The only parties (in E&W) that won’t lose out are Reform and the Conservatives… Corbyn has the chance to gift them a general election.
So, accepting this for the sake of argument, what should he do, if he believes (as do a lot of us) that Labour and Conservative are driving the country off a cliff ?
No one holds more responsibility for the creation of the Corbyn-led party than Keir Starmer.
If Starmer had not expelled and driven out left-wingers from the Labour Party Jeremy Corbyn would today be a Labour backbench MP and no one would be talking about this new left-wing party.
And we would be up Shit Creek without a paddle. So for that very reason I am hugely grateful to Keir Starmer and for what I hope will be his lasting legacy. It is amazing what a clueless **** who relies on others to tell him what to do can achieve 😊
Corbyn has the chance to gift them a general election.
Only Starmer has that power within his gift. Even Blair recognized the importance of at least paying lip service the the left.
Jesus. Think Polanski and his supporters need to get rid of this lot or get out and join up with Corbyn. I’ve never seen such vacuous drivel in 30 years of following politics.
https://twitter.com/elliechowns/status/1952761800597889311?s=46&t=LtLH_brmYFWrcPalxgEeWA
I’ve never seen such vacuous drivel in 30 years of following politics.
They sound just like me when I was a teenager. Most people initially enter politics for purely emotional reasons, whether it be anger, compassion, or whatever. Hopefully those emotions are eventually accompanied by some solid ideological grounding.
That pair don't seem to have reached that stage yet, some never do, and they are still at the naive idealist stage driven primarily by emotions, it would appear.
I suspect the Green Party is dominated by people like that, middle-class idealists with very sound moral values but a lack of an ideological commitment and application.
Which makes the case for an ideological left-wing party even stronger. Although personally I think Jeremy Corbyn is pisspoor on ideology for a man of his age. He still often comes across as a hopelessly naive idealist with bollocks about "kinder politics" and all that ridiculous shite.
Hopefully the new party will attract plenty of more hard-nosed operators. I am sure it will.
I find this so funny that you think the green party - a long established party with principles that are solid and often at odds with more traditional parties should join with this grouping and lose their identity.
I ask again - what is in this for the greens? I can see zero advantage to the greens from doing this and all I see you wanting this new grouping to ride on the coattails of the greens.
Surely the answer is they should join the greens if they are truely in step with a green agenda?
The Green Party (as it is now called) has been around for 40 years and I can't see them getting past the support they have now. If you actually want to achieve anything you need to be at more than a handful of MPs after 40 years.
Polanski would be better off being leader of "your party" and the sort of person who would do a lot better than Corbyn who as we know was useless as a leader, dealing with questions etc,. Polanski is very quick to answer and closes the questions down well.
I ask again - what is in this for the greens?
I guess it depends on what the Green Party wants? If it wants to be a nice fluffy home for comfortably-off middle class liberals to wallow in their own virtue signalling as Chowns and Ramsay appear to want then the answer is nothing. If it wants to be a real force for change which challenges the establishment and status quo as Polanski (and the vast majority of green party members if you beleive the polls) seems to want then there's a lot to be gained by an alliance with other leftwing parties who want to do the same. I guess we'll get that answer in September when the leadership election results are announced.
Polanski would be better off being leader of "your party"
Yeah it's highly unfortunate that the best young leftwing political communicator is in a party which has achieved almost nothing in 40 years. I really hope he can find a way to unite with other parties once he wins the Green Party leadership. He should probably lead that alliance but I doubt the likes of Sultana will be able to swallow their pride to allow it to happen.
then there's a lot to be gained by an alliance with other leftwing parties who want to do the same.
What is to be gained? You keep on making this claim but not substantiating this. I see nothing to be gained only losses
What is to be gained?
The greens have historically failed (miserably!) to capture the votes and support of working class people who form the majority of the electorate. To break through and achieve real success they need to do that, and an alliance with more traditionally leftwing parties rooted in the labour movement will potentially allow them to do that. Or they can carry on wallowing in their nice fluffy virtue signalling bubble where they talk a good game safe in the knowledge they'll never have to implement it.