MegaSack DRAW - This year's winner is user - rgwb
We will be in touch
So, Molgrips, how many km a year do your vehicles do a year (you, Mrs grips and offspring) and how many kms do you do a year by bike? And just how committed is that? Why not provide the info rather than complain about my mind reading ability.
In my case it's been around 10 000km by bike and 5 000km by car/van in recent years.
Yeah, molgrips but how big is your dunda?
TandemJeremy - MemberFFS edukator. The thread had died a death. Think of moleys blood pressure will you?
Now look what you have done. Tut tut.
molgrips - MemberI point out the inevitable consequence of living your car-bound, centrally-heated lifestyle
CAR BOUND? WTF? I'M A DIE HARD FRIGGING CYCLIST!
Jesus H Christ on a mother **** tandem!
I am a keen cyclist. Mrs Grips is not. I cycle where I can, Mrs Grips can't manage much.
If you think I am posting stats for your judgement then you can F right off.
Our typical family journeys in Cardiff involve going into Roath or town, or to one of two supermarkets. Town is too far for Mrs Grips to cycle currently, and the roads are unpleasant. However there are ways to work around that. The supermarkets are walking distance. So where should we cycle to?
When Mrs Grips is no longer pregnant and has had a chance to recover and get some fitness back, I'm sure we'll be cycling into town.
In my case it's been around 10 000km by bike and 5 000km by car/van in recent years.
Buy a better car?
Madame rode her bike throughout pregnancy. One lunchtime swimming session when nine months pregnant she said she felt tired and requested going by car. Strange. After only 1200m swimming she got out the pool. Very strange. A couple of hours later she requested another car journey, to the hospital to give birth.
I'll gladly F right off later, Madame willing. So as I'm willing to F right off how about some stats for my judgement.
I see a tangent ahead!
Did I tell you my mum fell off her bike when 9 months pregnant with me?
Didn't do me no harm
Debatable
Madame rode her bike throughout pregnancy.
I guess your wife is fitter and stronger than mine then!
I'll gladly F right off later, Madame willing. So as I'm willing to F right off how about some stats for my judgement
I think you mis-understood!
Edukator - some stats about how fit and strong your wife is please.
Damo the point is that it is so unlikely that an accident will happen that the risk is insignificant. To avoid doing something because of an insignificant risk is not rational behaviour. Especially when the same person will do another activity that caries a similar insignificant risk without even questioning it.The odds on being involved in a serious accident on a bike are millions to one per journey undertaken.
you are overstating your case.
irrational [ meaning devoid of reason] would be to repeatedly buy a lottery ticket when no one can win. Rational would be to accept the chances are very small but that it could be you. As there is a risk associated with cycling then to choose not to do it cannot be considered to be irrational. It would be irrational if it was 100% safe. It may be a case of failing to do a risk assessment adequately, overly cautious or a variety of other things but NOT irrational. I can see your point that statistically it is safer[ depending on course on which statistics you look at] but it is BS to claim irrationality that displays your arrogance in your own judgements.
You really dont understand how anyone can assess risk differently from you [ helmets, nukes cycling] and think we are all irrational and need educating.
Often when we discuss things that are just opinions you display complete certainty. I am sure molgrips and I can see your point. Why you cannot see ours is beyond me tbh.
Well she rode 60 hilly km back from work today (having taken the train to get there) in 30°C sunshine without breaking into a sweat. That's fairly fit. As for strong, she can move 30 school children with only a gentle vibration of her vocal chords.
Synopsis?
JUnkyard
Its the comparison to car usage. Both cycling and car driving with a kid carry a real but tiny risk, To deem one acceptable but the other not seems irrational to me.
Can you explain why a journey in a car with a risk of ten million to one is acceptable but a journey on a bike with a risk of a million to one is not?
+1 Junkyard
Can you explain why a journey in a car with a risk of ten million to one is acceptable but a journey on a bike with a risk of a million to one is not?
No one is saying that.
They are saying that the ten fold increase in risk is enough to make them choose the car.
For you or I the choice may be different, I'm not sure why you can't accept (or respect) molgrips or others choice?
Synopsis?
- Bikes are more dangerous than cars
- TJ can't understand how some people wouldn't take their kids on a bike seat/trailer
- Edukator is going on about how fit/strong his wife is
I used a trailer from one month old for each of my kids. From around 8 months is a rear mounted bike seat, and am considering a weeride for our 10 month old. I can see why people would be apprehensive about putting kids anywhere near bikes at that young age, but you pays your money and you takes your choice.
No one is saying that.
Yes they are - though I must point out TJ has his stats wrong - if you compare like with like at the most basic level (exclude motorway journeys and children in charge of bicycles) it's at worst a doubling of (a very low) risk per mile.
Plus his stats don't apply, since they are about kids riding bikes not trailers.
molgrips - Member
+1 Junkyard
Ohh FFS it has come to this is it too late to retract or edit 😆
Its the comparison to car usage. Both cycling and car driving with a kid carry a real but tiny risk, To deem one acceptable but the other not [b]seems irrational to me[/b].
Fine to say that but you are using irrationality incorrectly.
Well i do both so what do you want as an answer here? Because if they do their hobby with their kid and their kid dies they might feel a bit bad about it? They think a large metal box is a better thing to crash in that a bike. I cannot give you a peer reviewed empirical study of this so dont ask. You may think this decision is not supported by empirical research [ though we could chat about this] but it is not irrational. I am out if you keep claiming this.
Can you explain why a journey in a car with a risk of ten million to one is acceptable but a journey on a bike with a risk of a million to one is not?
See above they are not. They are both risky I need to asses [ which means guess] at which one[crash] is most likely to occur [that day]and which one we are most likely to survive. Am I on a cylce lane away from cars, in that there London town during rush hour , raining ,dark etc.#I suspect everyone does both so it is not the case that we never cycle with our kids is it?
Junkyard - many folk said never to cycle with a baby which is where this comes from. Given the similar odds of an injury accident cycling or in a car why is it reasonable to say never on a bike but happy to be in a car? remember the odds of the baby dying are similar. is that a rational position?
It would appear to be a position that is arrived at despite the evidence not because of it. That is where I see the irrationality.
still out TJ , six pages of debating this will not change your mind nor my mind. I have given as good an account as i can. you over state your sats case and if you want to call it irrational that is your business but I dont agree.
Let me know if you convince anyone by calling them irrational eh.
Junkyard - many folk said never to cycle with a baby which is where this comes from
Whhhoooaoh there Jezzer. Surely the never cycle with a baby camp were concerned about vibrations on tiny babies bodies.. that was something else entirely surely? I took steps to mitigate that but still went out.
Indeed - I'm in the don't ride with kids <6 months camp. TJ doesn't really help himself by confusing these issues.
I think where TJ has struggled is with his definition of irrationality since a decision based on statistics must be rational - no matter how small TJ thinks the statistical chance is.
I guess an analogy would be the lottery, if you had to accept either one or two tickets for free the rational decision would be to take two since your chance of winning would be higher - although in both cases its "insignificant", 1 or 2 in 14m
As for strong, she can move 30 school children with only a gentle vibration of her vocal chords
Woah!!! Will she move me with a gentle vibration of her vocal chords? It will certainly be a whole load more legal, and probably easier than 30 kids! That is very fit indeed! Any pics?
I can't believe this thread is still going, but I have to add this.
Well she rode 60 hilly km back from work today (having taken the train to get there) in 30°C sunshine without breaking into a sweat.
without getting an average speed and total ascent that statement means absolutely nothing
Every time I'm sad I simply remind myself that I'm not one of you lot. Works a treat.
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A pic as requested, I don't want it sent back dédicacé, really I don't.
Thanks to all that have contributed to the thread. I've found the cross section of attitudes very interesting. From the confident I-know-the-risks-acept-them -and-assume-responsibilty-for-the-conseqences-of-my-actions types to the paranoid it's-madness-and-I'd-never-forgive-myself.
It certainly explains why I saw so few bikes when riding across England.
I guess an analogy would be the lottery, if you had to accept either one or two tickets for free the rational decision would be to take two
That's a really rubbish analogy. Better might be the choice between two lottery tickets for free or one lottery ticket and a fiver. I think the rational choice there is quite clear!
Well, what a thread that 'was'. Some great information and comments (before it lost it's way) to my original post, so thanks.... 😀
I have decided to buy a cheap trailer and take my 10 week old (2 weeks before said holiday) around the Monkey at Cannock.... as a proper test of it's safety features.
Will let you know how I get on....
*winces*
If the pics on Google image search are anything to go buy, it looks well rough for a baby that young.
Sorry Mol - I thought it was clearly a joke - but after this thread's direction......
😀
Oh.. I was gonna say!
Not being familiar with the monkey.. see...
Late reply:
[i]Where did you get this stat? Are you sure it refers to an American billion,not a British billion? [/i]
Office of National Statistics. All Government stats have used the long scale billion since 1974.
short scale you mean
Long scale comes from échelle longue and a long scale billion is 10 to the 12. A short scale billion is 10 to the 9 and the use of "milliard" avoids confusion in French. Perhaps the National Statistics Office should adopt it thus avoiding confusion.
That's a really rubbish analogy. Better might be the choice between two lottery tickets for free or one lottery ticket and a fiver. I think the rational choice there is quite clear!
it is NOT IRRATIONAL it is just the statistically less likely to lead to you being richer option. It would only be irrational if you could not win the lottery and you knew this and still took the ticket over the fiver.
I would take the fiver but i would not call someone choosing differently irrational... optimistic or poor at stats maybe but not irrational.
OH NO! I thought this had died...
OH NO! I thought this had died..
Oh come on! What was the probability of that happening?
good point...any of you want to taste my cooking? that should speed the death along...
well id like to take 7mth old kimbers jr off road this weekend
either gonna buy a trailer or we have the baby bjorn or a rucksack carrier
will i get struck down if i do it??
ps heres brad pit and angelinas kids........
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Just bought a babybjorn - and my bike (the campervan bike!) is just like Brad's.....
Had a great spin at the weekend with the Beamlet in the Chariot and me pulling her on the Pace.
Did a bit of offroad but as it was uphill I wasn't going particularly fast. Got a bit of a sweat on though and she slept for most of it.
No one was injured in this adventure and I haven't been struck by lightning yet.