MegaSack DRAW - This year's winner is user - rgwb
We will be in touch
[url= http://www.bakfiets-en-meer.nl/2011/04/11/bakfiets-touring-with-baby-and-toddler/ ]Some practical experience from the Netherlands 1[/url]
[url= http://www.bakfiets-en-meer.nl/2009/01/20/test-carrying-a-newborn-on-a-bike/ ]Some practical experience from the Netherlands 2[/url]
Oh one more (small) point abt trailers that I thought about while having my nap... the dust/dirt 'spray' issue. When using the trailer even with mud guards on your bike there may be dirt flecks which reach your little one even through the mesh of the front 'window.'
I find that on the road bike with full guards, it is fine, whether or not the window is open she doesn't get sprayed. On the mountain bike with just a crudguard type thing, you have to think about what you'll be riding through and close the rain window if there's going to be too much mud. Did a mountain bike ride in the rain a bit back and the amount of mud on the rain cover was shocking.
Joe
This is one of the things that makes me laugh. You will put a baby in a car seat and drive at 80 mph but not in the same seat in a bike trailer at 10 mph.
So which is safer, putting your baby in a car seat at 80mph AND putting it in a trailer at 10mph, or putting it in a car seat at 80mph AND NOT putting it in a trailer at 10mph. The thing is, most people are talking about doing extra journeys with kiddies on bikes rather than using it for transport, let alone replacing 80mph car journeys (I use a bike for transport with kids more than most on here I suspect, and can't think of a single time I've replaced a trip I'd get up to 80mph in the car on).
Though you're getting confused about different aspects of safety - vibrating young children and not supporting their necks properly has been proven to be harmful. Totally different thing to risk of serious injury or death in a car crash. Then again, I'm very much an advocate of taking kiddies about on bikes, but even if we are talking about replacing a car journey with a bike journey, by considered opinion is that the car is probably safer.
On the mud thing, I have sometimes brought my children home with splattered faces 😳
The Beamlet was offroad (albeit on smooth tracks) in her Chariot at the age of 3 months:
[url= http://farm4.static.flickr.com/3516/3758175930_0d644a77f5.jp g" target="_blank">
[url= http://www.flickr.com/photos/beamans3/3758175930/ ]IMG_9306[/url] by [url= http://www.flickr.com/people/beamans3/ ]Mark and Kirsty Beaman[/url], on Flickr
Front cover was up in that picture but is now down for all trips before anyone starts.
She graduated from the baby bivvy (which doesn't secure the occupant at all) to the infant sling at 1 month old on which she was strapped in with he head supported so she was out on smooth trails behind the bike from that point onwards.
I find that on the road bike with full guards, it is fine
I use a Dew 700c hybrid with 40mm ish tyres on (forget what size, they are Schwalbe Marathons with a reflective strip on the side that makes them look like whitewalls 🙂 ) with full SKS guards, and there's still a bit of trail crud thrown up. I'm considering a grandad style mudflap 🙂
Beamers.. yep the infant sling is indeed ace. Never had the baby bivy.
This is one of the things that makes me laugh. You will put a baby in a car seat and drive at [u]80 mph[/u] but not in the same seat in a bike trailer at 10 mph.
70 mph please Jeremy, try and be a responsible road user.
Wow - loads of opinions STW collective thanks...! 😀
FWIW - we have a 'papoose' thingy - which she really doesn't like... however... she also has a baba-sling - which she loves.
She is only just over 9lbs now - and while her head/neck muscles are getting stronger, she certainly isn't stable.
I wouldn't get the baby seat on the back of the bike yet - and thinking about it... a large trailer would be too big for the camper.....
Definitely not doing anything other than very rural lanes - distances around 2 miles I guess....
So - possibly papoose/sling that supports her head - more googling required...!
On a different note, being 'new' to parenting... Mrs chalkstorm and I are gobsmacked at the amount of contradictory advice out there..... everyone has an opinion... and only a few have eyes open enough to realise that all kids are different - and what works for some may not work for others...
Again, appreciate your thoughts & comments.... 😉
We were fortunately in Canada whilst pregnant so splashing out on the complete list of accessories for the chariot (we drew the line at the cross country skis though) whilst expensive was as ludicrous as it would have been over here.
Plus the fact I was determined to limit the number of wheeled devices that we bought for transporting our nipper about.
The Beamlet loves the Chariot and now that she is talking cries "Faster Daddy, faster" when I take her out in it behind the bike.
Oh, and FWIW the Beamlet was doing 35mph plus (downhill on smooth roads devoid of traffic) from about 3 months onwards.
and thinking about it... a large trailer would be too big for the camper....
Chariots fold up pretty thin, so you might be surprised.
Re country lanes though - round by me they are pretty narrow and windy, and see some shocking driving. I'd say they were among the more dangerous roads to cycle on, some of them. Drivers come winging around the corners and only have a few m in which to stop.
Do you realise that they fold flat when not in use? Wheels come off, tow bar folds underneath and the sides and back all fold in. Takes 2 mins max to assemble / disassemble. Previous comments about dust / spray are right though. Never had to worry about overheating though - we live in Scotland!!!a large trailer would be too big for the camper.....
You know what happens to an adult when they fall off or are knocked off a bike. Imagine what happens to a baby. Some ****ing people
randomjeremy - MemberYou know what happens to an adult when they fall off or are knocked off a bike
They swear and get up again? Do babies swear?
yunki Jr goes in a seat on a rack on the back sometimes.. he's 21 months and blinkin heavy though.. which plays havoc with my 360 tailwhips on the dirtjumps..
there may be dirt flecks which reach your little one
our little bundle of joy has been helping me move 3 ton of compost this arvo.. it's a good home-made compost.. mostly comprised of well rotted pig and chicken dung and he's had great fun collecting worms from the pile.. he only ate two.. which is good because it didn't spoil his appetite for dinner..
The flecks of dirt thing wasn't being over-precious - the small gritty stuff ends up being flicked into their face which for a small baby can be difficult if it ends up in their eyes.
We have a trailer designed to carry 2 toddlers. I removed the fitted seat and fabricated a base to hold the carseat - a Maxicosi Cabriofix. The rails on the base of the carseat slot into rearward facing slots on the mount, and once the seat is in position and slid forwards it is secired with a webbing strap and buckle. It is totally solid. The child would be protected if the trailer rolled by the frame of the trailer and the handle of the car seat.
The fabricated base is mounted into the trailer using vibration isolating mounts off ebay. These reduce vibration significantly. In addition we run the tyres very soft.
Our wee fella is 17 weeks today and has been out in the trailer since he was 7 weeks old (and he arrived 6 and a half weeks early). He likes it, either sleeping soundly, or watching the trees/clouds go by.
We have ridden sections of the Crinan Canal, the Caledonian Canal, the Great Glen Way, around Loch Katrine and numerous local trails. Everyone who sees the set-up is impressed.
Two weeks ago we rode the Blue at GT from the top of Blue Velvet down, including a gentle descent of Good Game, and this weekend did the Green and Orange trails at Laggan. As long as you go nice and slowly, keeping an eye on the wee one, you should be fine.
The only time he shows any upset is if we stop and he wakes up. Setting off again placates him.
The flecks of dirt thing wasn't being over-precious - the small gritty stuff ends up being flicked into their face which for a small baby can be difficult if it ends up in their eyes.
fair point.. I was just being facetious if I'm honest.. I didn't even read the quote in context.. If I had.. and I'd seen the original statement came from the Grips clan.. I wouldn't have bothered.. safe in the certainty that every decision will have been made with thoughtfully applied logic and reasoning.. 🙂
Like most things a matter of choice. Despite all the expert opinion here I'd probably also consider what ROSPA say.
My middle daughter has been going in a trailer from around 2 months. Original she went in her car seat but by 6 months she was sitting in the normal seat. I used it regulary to take her to nusary 2-3 times a week . She often fell a sleep in it and would often tell me to speed up. She also liked going over the speed bumps as well as having the cover off all together. She is now coming up to 5 and still like to go in it. If you ever sit in the back of a car or have a baby in the front seat beside you (no air bag) you will see how much they are shaken around by the movement agin look in the buggy as well.
The dirt thing can be a problem off road along with general dust but i foun the road bike with its full lenght mudguards not bad.
Do you people ride on the roads with your babies in tow?
Has anyone in this tedious session of middle class oneupmanship actually thought of the children yet?
Do you people ride on the roads with your babies in tow?
No!
randomjeremy - Member
Do you people ride on the roads with your babies in tow?
Often and cars tend to give you much more room than normal though you can't nip down the outside of traffic but i tended to use that as a rest as atrailer deffinatly makes its presance felt.
damo2576 - Member
Like most things a matter of choice. Despite all the expert opinion here I'd probably also consider what ROSPA say.
Ta.... not seen that till now..... 😳
we drew the line at the cross country skis though
Dead handy IME
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I find it amazing that people are willing to put their children at risk like that - each to their own I guess
Do you people ride on the roads with your babies in tow?
As mentioned above, I use a bike for transport with kids, though since it's got warmer (and I don't feel the need to wrap the little one up in the trailer) I've been using a bike seat on the back of the tandem (mini-aracer #1 pedalling in between). So yes - try and avoid the busiest roads and use bike paths a bit more (though still ride across one of the busiest local roundabouts as it's so much hassle to avoid it). Though as somebody else said, I've always found drivers give me loads of room with the trailer - tandem with a kiddy seat comes a close second.
At risk like what, random? Like the risk of getting killed whilst driving in a car? I know I'm sounding a bit like TJ here (though sometimes he's right), but do you actually have any stats to backup your implication that it's dangerous taking kids on the road in a trailer/bikeseat?
randomjeremy - MemberI find it amazing that people are willing to put their children at risk like that - each to their own I guess
I find it completely amazing peoples attitude to risk. Would you put kids in a car? People in the UK have a very strange attitude to cycling which is a very safe way of travelling.
No at risk of being hit by a motorised vehicle while attached to a pushbike on the road. You do realise that a bike / bike trailer is not a car right?
Look I don't really give a shit about your kids, I find it odd that you don't seem to though.
Yep - I agree 100% with TJ (to be fair I tend to agree with him on more things than not).
Hey good stuff, we should agree to disagree
BTW TJ doesn't actually have kids - to him it's just an academic exercise. I do, and still think you're wrong, RJ. As I said up there, have you got any stats - or even any anecdotes - to back up your assertion?
I find it amazing that identical bait was used but differing results obtained...
we should agree to disagree
Strangely I find it a lot harder even to agree to that than I do with TJ.
I find it amazing that identical bait was used but differing results obtained...
Probably down to change in alcohol concentrations in the bloodstream.
[IMG] 
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I love the ski trailer btw. Makes me want to be a small kid again 🙂 To fit in it now I'd have to be liquidised 🙁
Randomjeremy I will bite. My daughter goes in the trailer on the road because I care about her enough to want to show her the outdoors and not just shove her in the car. How is she in anymore danger than when she is in the push chair walking on the road side?
FWIW the Beamlet was doing 35mph plus (downhill on smooth roads devoid of traffic) from about 3 months onwards
You do know they're not supposed to go over 15mph (I've always made a point of trying to average more than that 😉 )?
And how big is that risk? I travel slower with the trailer (its quite heavy and I'm unfit) and my own experience (and others anecdotal evidence) is that cars give you a wider berth. Is it actually safer for me to take the trailer than go on my own without it?No at risk of being hit by a motorised vehicle while attached to a pushbike on the road.
I find it odd that despite your claimed apathy towards my children you feel it necessary to judge me for having made a balanced, informed and educated assessment of risk.Look I don't really give a shit about your kids, I find it odd that you don't seem to though.
At what age do you think I should involve the kids in cycling on the road? baby in trailer? toddler in rear seat? preschool on tag-a-long? primary school on their own bike supervised? teenager unsupervised? At what point on that progression does it become "OK" for me to expose my children to the risk... ...I'd actually suggest the risk of injury or fatality increases as they get older and a dead child is devastating whether they are 14 yrs or 14 months.
Baby bjorn for off road followed by Rhode gear taxi at about 6mo. Graduated to kiddyback tandem at three. Was riding on the road at about the same age with me behind. Some grief from the mother, a LOT more from the mother-in-law!
I'd probably go with a trailer now. Folding them is a bit of a pfaff though.
I don't recall seeing an epidemic of trailer fatalities. But don't leave them shut inside in direct sunlight based on recent Italian media reports.
I am working on a project in Uruguay - and some of the baby balancing on mopeds is quite scary - have seen baby balanced on one knee, and riding one handed. Pillion passenger carrying baby in their arms, whilst drinking mate (ita kinds like coffee but through a straw). Current balancing record is 2 adults and 2 kids on one small moped.
But this is generally in town where average speed is well under 20 mph......
Surely the issue is not the cyclist (with or without baby/trailer/tagalong) its the motorist not respecting other road users particularly vulnerable ones..........
So - possibly papoose/sling that supports her head - more googling required...!
You must be mental. No protection for the child. Ask a paediatric doctor and see what the response is.
TJ - you really are out of your comfort zone with a discussion on cars and kids. As adults, most of us take responsibility for our own safety and are pretty good about it. If nobody else in the world was included in our personal risk assessments, the bike / car arguement might be more balanced. Unfortunately, we take 'everyone else' into account. It isn't our own actions we think about when looking at the safety of our children - it is everyone elses. Therefore, putting my child into a car seat designed for the task and securing that in a metal box means my child is at less risk from the actions of others on the road than on a trailer.
Randomjeremy I will bite. My daughter goes in the trailer on the road because I care about her enough to want to show her the outdoors and not just shove her in the car. How is she in anymore danger than when she is in the push chair walking on the road side?
Does your car not have windows?
BTW cars drive on the roads not pavements.
But I live in the countryside where roads do not have pavements alongside
I'd walk then facing the traffic rather than risk getting rear ended by a speeding driver on the phone on a blind corner!
Where i ride their are no blind corners so keep trying to prove me wrong and irresponsible.
I stand corrected, didn't realise you were making Roman style journeys with no blind corners.
I find it completely amazing peoples attitude to risk. Would you put kids in a car?
Look, stop being silly. There's clearly a massive difference between putting your kid INSIDE a car where they're protected by lots of metal, and towing them behind a bike where they're not. CLEARLY.
The issue I have is that in a trailer they are very low down, which could make them hard to see, and that if they were hit they could get crushed under the wheels particularly of a lorry. All it takes is one driver not to be concentrating or looking where they are going, and that's not too hard to imagine.
I just imagine how I'd feel if I had to pick my toddler's remains out of the wheelarch of a bus and that stops me from doing this.
And I'm not unreasonably risk averse because I cycle all over the place and my kid will too WHEN SHE'S OLD ENOUGH.
Oh and I'd also think twice about pushing a pushchair down a narrow road without pavements.
It's a funny argument re rural roads (countryside) also since half of all cyclist fatalities occur on them - despite most journeys being urban.
I sh1t myself sometimes on road rides in the country, no way I'd want my daughter on the back!
Agreed damo - many are tight and windy. There are one or two that I really don't want to ride on because they are so blind.
FWIW the Beamlet was doing 35mph plus (downhill on smooth roads devoid of traffic) from about 3 months onwardsYou do know they're not supposed to go over 15mph (I've always made a point of trying to average more than that )?
I didn't know that.
I'm sure Mrs B would have spotted that in the instruction manual. She read it after I had been out and about with the beamlet a few times between 1 and 3 months. She read the namby pamby bottom covering guidance that nippers under 12 months shouldn't be pulled behind the bike. There was a 9 month gap chariot excursions. I'm sure if she had read the speed limitation bit she would be reminding me (constantly) to slow down.
[middle class one-upmanship] I'm pretty sure that all of this chariot activity hasn't affected the Beamlet. I came home from work yesterday to find her reciting the alphabet. She's just turned 2.[/middle class one-upmanship]
I cycle all over the place and my kid will too WHEN SHE'S OLD ENOUGH
Which will be when? At what point does she become old enough not to be vulnerable to a driver not concentrating?
She's old enough when her mother says she's old enough...and when she's been drilled to be a defensive user of the road like all cyclists should be...
You boys are hilarious. It always breaks down the same way.
Walk away.
It's obvious you're not going to change each others minds and y'all just getting worked up about it... is this some sort of way to replace the physical fighting/exercise to show 'machismo' which you cannot do any longer because you're not in a tribal society?
She'll have to be quite grown up to ride on roads I consider dangerous on her own.
We're all vulnerable to drivers not concentrating. However, those being towed at ground level further out than and behind a cyclist are MORE vulnerable, in my opinion.
I'm pretty sure that all of this chariot activity hasn't affected the Beamlet. I came home from work yesterday to find her reciting the alphabet. She's just turned 2
Aww, never mind, there's still time to catch up.
Look, stop being silly. There's clearly a massive difference between putting your kid INSIDE a car where they're protected by lots of metal, and towing them behind a bike where they're not. CLEARLY.
Yes you are right - speeds are much higher so despite the extra protection the risks are high. its not a rational position molgrips
TJ - you really are out of your comfort zone with a discussion on cars and kids. As adults, most of us take responsibility for our own safety and are pretty good about it. If nobody else in the world was included in our personal risk assessments, the bike / car argument might be more balanced.
No I am just enjoying pointing out the lack of rationality of many peoples position as regards to the risks of bikes.
To take babies on bikes is the norm in the rest of Europe and its perfectly safe to do so. Risks are low due to the low risk of crashing and the low speeds involved.
its completely ridiculous to think a car at 80 mph is safe and a bike at 15 mph is not.
mrsgrips - MemberYou boys are hilarious. It always breaks down the same way.
Walk away.
It's obvious you're not going to change each others minds and y'all just getting worked up about it... is this some sort of way to replace the physical fighting/exercise to show 'machismo' which you cannot do any longer because you're not in a tribal society?
Well said Mrs Grips
Oh and I'd also think twice about pushing a pushchair down a narrow road without pavements.
How do you ever get out of the house?
Does your car not have windows?
I don't know about your car seat, but in our maxi cosi baby seat, the poor thing can see next to nothing out of the window.
As for the risk of the bike trailer, my view is that
a)I'm convinced that the trailer isn't inherently unsafe (in terms of shaking, rattling of the baby etc.), as the people who build and sell it are happy to sell it as recommended for cycling from 12 weeks, and I'm pretty sure they've taken a lot of legal & medical advice on that.
b)I've done probably well over 30,000 road miles on bikes & unicycles and managed to avoid any accidents. I'm happy to cycle places and don't think it is particularly putting me at risk (and just as importantly my wife is happy that I'm safe on the roads).
c)Traffic is massively more careful and spots you way earlier (or at least responds to you way earlier) when you have a kiddy trailer. Even traffic on the other lane of the A6 slows down a little. This is just completely obvious to anyone who has ridden a trailer on the road much - at times it is almost annoying how polite people are to you, you find yourself having to hammer up hills to make way for people who have kindly stopped to let you pass.
The issue I have is that in a trailer they are very low down, which could make them hard to see,
I think that is not true at all - in practice they are a bit wider and bigger, and have the cheeky little flag on, all of which makes them much much easier to see than a bike. There is also the oddness factor - if you ride something unexpected, people see it much earlier and are much more careful overtaking you (I'm confident this is true, I've ridden several thousand miles on unicycles in London traffic, and you don't half get people overtaking nice and wide then!).
Joe
No I am just enjoying pointing out the lack of rationality of many peoples position as regards to the risks of bikes
You're trying to, but failing.
It's obviously more dangerous to be a baby towed in a trailer than to be riding a bike. Can't understand why you don't accept that. When the field of view is short, something low down is surely harder to see than something at eye level? Have you never heard the phrase 'sorry mate didn't see you'?
its completely ridiculous to think a car at 80 mph is safe and a bike at 15 mph is not
No it's not.
How do you ever get out of the house?
Why did you even type that? Come on now, be honest.
Molgrips -I think your attitude towards risk is ridiculous and summed up by this - and you won't even push a pushchair if there is no pavement.
It's obviously more dangerous to be a baby towed in a trailer than to be riding a bike.
Look, stop being silly. There's clearly a massive difference between putting your kid INSIDE a car where they're protected by lots of metal, and towing them behind a bike where they're not. CLEARLY.
Neither of those is a rational position at all.
I'm convinced that the trailer isn't inherently unsafe (in terms of shaking, rattling of the baby etc.), as the people who build and sell it are happy to sell it as recommended for cycling from 12 weeks
Are you sure you're not confusing weeks and months, joe?
You can begin using the Croozer in Stroller or Jogger mode when your child is approximately 6 months old. Your child must be able to sit upright unassisted. To use your Croozer in cycling mode, your child must be approximately 12 months old
...and no, there is no contradiction between thinking it's perfectly safe taking your kids out on the roads in a trailer and thinking there's a reasonable minimum age for doing so.
and you won't even push a pushchair if there is no pavement.
That's not what I said.
I said I wouldn't push a pushchair on [b]a narrow dangerous road[/b] if there's no pavement.
Neither of those is a rational position at all.
Do you know what 'rational' means?
You may disagree with my risk assesment (which would be entirely reasonable), but stop calling me irrational, cos it's wrong.
It's obviously more dangerous to be a baby towed in a trailer than to be riding a bike. Can't understand why you don't accept that. When the field of view is short, something low down is surely harder to see than something at eye level?
I'm not convinced that is right. Something wider is much easier to see than something narrow, something out of the ordinary (and bright green and covered in reflective gubbins) is much easier to see than something normal like a bike, plus the bright pink flag at higher than head level probably helps too.
In my experience (hundreds of miles now) of riding on the road with a bike trailer, it is absolutely completely blindingly obvious that you are much more likely to be seen and people will be much more careful around you if you are a bike + child trailer, than if you are just a person on a bike.
Joe
TJ it really is ridiculous you take these positions then try to dismiss everything else as irrational.
If you had a rational brain it would be fairly clear to see that based on everyday common knowledge a bike is more dangerous than a car. Just by knowing motorways are the safest roads, by knowing cycling is one of the most dangerous sports etc. Being rational you would be able to deduce that taking into account journey hours and frequency cycling is pretty much going to be more dangerous.
Dismiss all that but how do you explain that there are about [b]50 times more child cyclist deaths than there are deaths to child car occupants[/b]?
something out of the ordinary (and bright green and covered in reflective gubbins) is much easier to see than something normal like a bike
Not when it's below the windscreen of a truck or pickup though - this is my main concern.
To be honest I don't have that much of a problem with wider straight well sighted roads. However that's not a dependable luxury where we live. I swear some people don't see me at all on my bike and the only thing that saves me is that I happen to fit in the gap that most drivers leave between the verge and their car.
If you think cars are no safer than bikes, try this on a bike:
It's obviously more dangerous to be a baby towed in a trailer than to be riding a bike.
It's not at all obvious to me. In fact I'd go so far as to say it's wrong. I've yet to see any stats presented about the dangers of kids in trailers - I'd bet money that even on an injuries per mile basis it's safer in a trailer than riding a bike. Excepting getting totally flattened - in which case all bets are off, and you'd have been flattened on a bike - the trailer has a nice roll cage to protect the occupants, so has to be safer.
The only way you could possibly hold this viewpoint is because you've never tried riding with a trailer on the road - if you do you'd discover what the rest of us know about drivers actually spotting trailers better than cyclists.
To take babies on bikes is the norm in the rest of Europe and its perfectly safe to do so.
SOME of the rest of Europe. Never seen it in Greece, Italy, Spain or Portugal. It is the norm in countries where cycling is an accepted form of transport and has the infrastructure, culture and laws to support it. You are comparing apples and oranges in an attempt to make your point - and failing.
As far as cars and trailers go: In a suitable car seat secured in a car, a child has far more chance of surviving ANY collision with another road user at any speed than in a bike trailer. As said many times - this isn't about 15mph or the parent - this is about the actions of OTHER road users that can't be controlled. I will manage the risk my child is exposed to - so the car it is for more road trips than in a trailer. That is a shame, but that is life and risk management.
Are you sure you're not confusing weeks and months, joe?
Nope, that's the trailer just as is, not with the special baby carrying bit (see the link below for that). The baby sling is only recommended up to 10 months (our smallish baby is in it at 1 still, but only just). Personally I'm not sure I'd have been happy at 6 months running with her in the standard seat, but the baby sling is super comfy, like being in a little hammock suspended in the trailer.
http://www.burls.co.uk/shop/croozer-trailers-integral-baby-sling-p-712.html
Is this still going on?
Frankly it baffles me why we're still bringing the cars are/aren't safer angle into this [s]discussion[/s] argument. I never understand why some of us [i]need [/i]evidence - anecdotal or not - to even understand let alone accept someone else's opinion.
I have a 2 year old and a 4 year old. I have walked with them in a Baby Bjorn since they were weeks if not days old. I wouldn't have dreamt of cycling with them at that age. My brother on the other hand - who lives in Sweden in case anyone wants to make a tenuous connection - quite happily skied with his daughter in a Baby Bjorn. Did I think any less of him? No, because he's an excellent skier and - being my brother - I know that he would not do it if he didn't think it was safe. "Yes, but what if someone had run into him?" I hear some of you cry. And so it goes on ad nauseum...
My wife and I happily take our kids on the bike to nursery or down the country lanes. They are quiet routes and the drivers on them are accustomed to walkers and pushchairs so drive accordingly. We have never felt unsafe or that we were taking unacceptable risks. We go through the same parental screening process as we go through with everything to do with our children; walking in the hills, scrambling over rocks, splashing in the pool. It is based on our experience and our knowledge of the world around us.
Frankly, the implication that cycling around the streets of central London with my kids in a bike trailer is safer than taking them to see Grandma in the car on the motorway just baffles me. Conversely, I'd feel safer taking them on the lane behind our house in a trailer than taking them out in the car late at night on snowy, slippy roads. You know how I do that? Good judgement. Why don't we try accepting that quite a few of us on here have exactly that.
Rant over
The only way you could possibly hold this viewpoint is because you've never tried riding with a trailer on the road - if you do you'd discover what the rest of us know about drivers actually spotting trailers better than cyclists
I have been on the road, and everyone gave me a wide berth. But in order to do that they have to see you. And as an experienced cyclist you must be aware that some drivers do not see you. I suspect that this is SOMEWHAT more likely with a trailer, and I also suspect that the consequences would be worse because a trailer is low down and more likely to go under a vehicle rather than bounce off a bonnet; and wider meaning that there is less room for a last minute swerve as someone looks up from their CD player.
Those are my feelings having been a cyclist, a trailer tower and a motorist in a variety of vehicles. Given the value of my cargo I choose not to take that particular risk. I don't consider this irrational. Over-cautious maybe depending on your own assessment, but not irrational.
Why don't we try accepting that quite a few of us on here have exactly that
+1
Damo - really - where did you get those stats?
Lots of data out there. None I have seen gives anything like that. There certainly is not 50 times as many child cyclist cyclist deaths as there are children in cars. Thats just simple nonsense.
There is a balance to be struck here. Each situation is different. Would I head out with the Beamlet in her Chariot, or trailer bike in the future, in the following environments:
Dual Carriage Way - No
A Road - No
Twisty back road with Chavs using it as a racetrack - No
Not so twisty back road early in the morning before (limited) traffic starts using it - Yes
Quiet back roads (which I have ridden on a lot sans Chariot) at any time of the day using it - Yes
Cyclepaths - Yes
The whole process of having kids is fraught with risk. The advantages of heading out an enjoying the fresh air and giving Mrs B a break from motherly duties, in my opinion, outweigh the risk.
If you had a rational brain it would be fairly clear to see that based on everyday common knowledge a bike is more dangerous than a car. Just by knowing motorways are the safest roads, by knowing cycling is one of the most dangerous sports etc
On the contrary, if you had a rational brain you'd realise that motorways being the safest roads means that the stats for injuries per mile in cars is skewed. Given you don't do journeys on a bike which you'd do on a motorway you have to compare with non-motorway journeys in which case the figures for car transport are a lot worse than the normal headline ones. Your everyday common knowledge also doesn't seem to extend to knowing which sports are dangerous.
Rant over
S'not a proper rant, it's too well reasoned!
Cycling is not a dangerous sport and the stats back that up.
Molgrips what you confuse is two aspects of accidents -= frequency and severity.
They are both factors in risk evaluation, aren't they?
Damo - really - where did you get those stats?
Lots of data out there. None I have seen gives anything like that. There certainly is not 50 times as many child cyclist cyclist deaths as there are children in cars. Thats just simple nonsense.
Based on data from Office for National Statistics which is the place that records this kind of stuff in the UK. The study was done by London School of Hygiene & Tropical Medicine.
Both highly reputable establishments I'm sure you're aware.
The study then looks at accident rates per passenger mile, ended up with the statistic I high lighted.
I'm not sure I can put the study up on line since I got from academic database. Will see if its public anywhere.