[Closed] You never actually own one

Cost of manufacturing Wrighty, all that engineering costs money you know.

I think they've been Swatch for nearly 20 years too.

Most of the prestige watch manufacturers now use 'in house' movements. A lot of them did use ETA movements but I guess they were struggling to justify the prices by using relatively movements. Panerai in particular being a case in point. Breitling too.

Up until around 10 years ago all mainsprings were manufactured by a company owned by Swatch group, they were the only people who had the machines and the skills to make them - if I remember correctly all the springs for these 'prestige' movements were made from a kilo of this material every year. Swatch got bored, told everyone that they were going to stop selling them from 2008 or so. Everyone else complained and Swatch were forced/encouraged/or they agreed they would phase the withdrawal over X years. Hence a lot of companies starting to make their own complete movements rather than using ETA's or Valjoux kits.*

*writing this from memory so it may be a little incorrect but the gist is about right.

Want an exquisitely manufactured piece of engineering, with a fascinating story behind it?
Want it to cost a LOT more then a newer, digital, better functioning equivalent with 100s more features?
Want laymen to not have a clue what the thing is?
Want to actually use it, rather than just look at it on your wrist?

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yep that make no sense. well done 🙄

I always get upset by the hate on here for that reasons Mods i would like to have my IP removed from the forum and be placed on the banned list.

I no longer want to be in the same room as some of the children on here.

Cheers

this may help ****

YAAAY! a flounce! Not seen one of those for a while!

TTFN Princess xx

Nice Flounce!

I see you already have the foil hat 😉

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A flounce? What about? Surely if you're a mug that buys expensive watches you can just stare it in the face and nod sagely that you're better than everyone else.

Why are you more of a mug buying an expensive watch over buying an expensive bike, whisky, tv, hifi etc ?
Surely it doesn't matter what people spend their money on?

Not for me.

Watched a telly-programme the other day about super yachts, and the sort of men who buy them. The problem that few seem to be able to overcome with any success, is that (like these watches) it's basically penis compensation, they do it by spending vast sums of cash, in the squalid belief that they have to surround themselves with the finest "things"; and to win it has to be obviously expensive, which means that it/they end up being ostentatious.

These watches may be exquisite pieces of machinery, (again, like the super yachts) but they are tasteless, vulgar and obviously obnoxiously expensive (Which is the point of them, after all)

I'm sure my previous post explained that. Too subtle for someone who flashes round a piece of jewellery I suppose 😆

So nice watches are like envy wheels then 🙂

I don't think Enve Wheels appreciate in value though.

Always love a good thread on STW ridiculling expensive 'luxury' possessions...

Then someone posts a pic of a 6k Santa Cruz and everyone creams their pants

I reckon the majority of the population would think that 10k on a nice watch is far less of a waste than 10 k on a fleet of push bikes that all do exactly the same thing...*

*Obviously they don't but thats not what all my non biking mates think

I should add for balance I think spending 10k on a watch is a complete waste of time, however my bikes are probably worth that and are worth every penny.... 🙂

Then someone posts a pic of a 6k Santa Cruz and [s]everyone[/s] some cream[s]s[/s] their pants

FIFY

envy wheels

A very relevant typo!

tpbiker - Member

Always love a good thread on STW ridiculling expensive 'luxury' possessions...

Then someone posts a pic of a 6k Santa Cruz and everyone creams their pants

A £6k bike is at least very very good at being a bike. A £10k watch is no better at being a watch than a £7 casio digital, and less useful if you want to build a bomb.

Depends how you define a watch. For some people how it looks is as important as how it tells the time.

Are these still regarded as "high end"?

No, they do not partake in 'haute horology' like patek, vacheron, JLC or Lange & Söhne etc so are definitely not high end.
Lots of other misinformation in this thread (like Tudor now having their own in-house movement and omega's long history of movement innovation.(we can gloss over the co-axial escapement being invented by an Englishman))
Not go time to address each wrong or out of date point, if you had an interest in timepieces you would have found that info for yourself. 🙂

A £6k bike is at least very very good at being a bike. A £10k watch is no better at being a watch than a £7 casio digital, and less useful if you want to build a bomb.

Not a very good comparison though is it when you look at the OP, you're not going to be handing a £7 Casio to your heir, quite unlikely a £6k bike either.

A £10k watch you will, and if the new owner doesn't like it they can sell it and spend what ever it's worth on whatever they do like.

Tag line seems pretty spot on.

No one buys a Patek Phillipe to tell the time! Much more practical investment than a painting too....

Omega, Brietling etc. are still high end - a £5k watch cannot be considered anything but high end - it's out of the reach of 'normal people'. Would be a very special one-off purchase for anyone except the very well off. But the bar has been upped by a group of even higher end stuff. Just like Supercars have been trumped by Hyper cars. A Ferrari 458 is a supercar, and still considered as a high end car, even though it's no longer the best and most expensive you can get from Ferrari - not by a long way.

After reading this thread,i'm going to buy one and wear it with my
singletrack t-shirt just to tick you chaps off

I must say some of them are really pretty.

Seiko make their own movements, their top-end watches, with the Grand Seiko movements, are a match for anyone, chronometer grade, but Seiko can't be bothered with all the accreditation that goes with it. I'd dearly love a Tuna Emperor, but really my SPORK is such a nice watch to wear it's very difficult indeed to justify the expense.
Shared movements are nothing new; my 1972 Yema has a Valjou movement, identical to movements used in Breitling watches of the same period, except the Breitling ones had a fancy finish to the outside.
I can sort of understand some of the animosity towards expensive watches; some are so ostentatious in the level of 'bling', encrusted with jewels, etc. that they're just grotesque, and are clearly just to shout LOOK AT MEEEEE! I'VE GOT MORE MONEY THAN YOU LOSERS AND I CAN PAY THE PRICE OF A HOUSE FOR A WATCH!
Others are just so damned complicated, with so many complications that they become almost unusable as a timepiece, rendering them largely pointless, being just a more subtle version of the above.
There's a third sort, though, pricey but perfectly usable watches, the so-called 'tool watch', my favourite type, that doesn't shout it's value in any sort of overt fashion, which is where the top-end Seiko watches appeal to me.
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I thought this was going to be a thread about cats

[img] ?w=640[/img]

Nice flounce though. We've not had one for a while. I thought the Maxxis calendar girls might induce one, but instead we had to wait for someone to rustle their petticoats in defence of something even more tacky and tasteless. Good work! 😆

Why are you more of a mug buying an expensive watch over buying an expensive bike, whisky, tv, hifi

All those things are expensive because they DO something well. A bling watch doesn't do its job any better than a cheap one. So it's value has to be pulled out of thin air, invented by the avaricious, the impressionable or the vain. Or those selling them. Reasons will be invented.

You can't really compare such a watch with say, a work of art. Art communicates a worthy emotion, a watch tells the time.

There are many things to spend your money on - experiences, activities, art, whatever, but a watch? I can't reconcile such a thing with any of my values!

I know this post will annoy some people, so don't take it too seriously and be offended! 🙂

Nobody can define what art is - it depends on the individual, and all those Art experts out there talking crap about a pile of bricks or an unmade bed are just as full of as much BS and any product marketing executive out there justifying the worth of any product.

The value is not in the quality of the movement - its in the brand. Seiko has not invested in increasing the value or prestige of its brand. It's completely deliberate - it all depends on where the company wants to pitch itself.

There is more to the value of a product than just how good the actual product is or how much it costs to manufacture. Look at Apple. It's products are not necessarily any better than the competition but yet people are prepared to pay a premium for. You can see it in any product type out there. Consumerism - it defy's the laws of logic and common sense.

but Seiko can't be bothered with all the accreditation that goes with it

It's not exactly that demanding.

that doesn't shout it's value in any sort of overt fashion, which is where the top-end Seiko watches appeal to me.

You do realise how pointless a 1000m rated watch is? 🙂

Although I agree with most of what you posted!

I spent £500 on a Tag about 20 years ago but then I was young and foolish!

To be honest, I quite like the look of Panerai watches but I just too tight to spunk that amount of money for something that keep worse time than my £100 Seiko solar.

Look at Apple. It's products are not necessarily any better than the competition

They are, you know.

I love my iPhone so much that I had it gold plated and encrusted with diamonds. Pretty cool eh?

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all those Art experts out there talking crap about a pile of bricks or an unmade bed are just as full of as much BS

For me, art has to say something. The bed or the bricks said something. So did the urinal. The watch doesn't say anything good, to me at least 🙂

I think you'll find the watch makes a statement Molls. The same statement a private number plate makes 😉

[img] &IW=613&IH=400&SCL=1&FPT=N&FPW=&FPH=&FR1=&FR2=&RPT=S&RPW=521&RPH=114&RR1=BE11%20END&RR2=&FN=Laser%20Charles%20Wright&FC=000000&FS=96&FH=0&FV=7&ST=&SF=Arial&SS=8&SC=000000&BD=N000000&BL=N&BR=N&CL=N&CR=N&BK=N&BST=Y[/img]

For me, art has to say something. The bed or the bricks said something. So did the urinal. The watch doesn't say anything good, to me at least

Mine tells me I'm late, or even better, on time. 🙂

My first (inherited) watch was on the wrist of one of the survivors of HMS Coventry. That and the story of the person who gave it to me means an awful lot. I invest in watches so I can hopefully do the same to my children.

Everything we buy is subjective, I own several original paintings and some prints. I'm pretty certain most people on here would be aghast at what I hang on my wall. If what I spend my money on really offends people on here I truly am sorry they feel that way.

LeeW - Member

Mine tells me I'm late, or even better, on time.

I was just reading an article where a watch salesman explained why watches that don't keep good time are better than accurate watches, because they're making a statement that you're not somebody that needs to worry about being on time. And after all, inaccuracy is more poetic. Another feller said if he wants to know the time, he checks his phone. But if he wants a broad idea of what the time is, and a deeper time-reading experience, he checks his watch.

I do know exactly what the time is, therefore I know it's too late to tell these guys to get in the sea. But still, it is the obvious place.

🙂

I'm within a 10 minute walk of at least three Richard Mille dealers, they are the most gopping things I've ever seen. Truly awful. I'm sure someone loves them though.

You can't really compare such a watch with say, a work of art. Art communicates a worthy emotion, a watch tells the time.

What i don't get it how emotive people on here seem to have got about people buying a high-end watch. I feel sorry for people that go around seethingly envious of what others can afford. Why does anyone care? I couldn't care less what others spend their money on.
I do not own, nor intend to buy, an expensive watch - i like Nixons :).

You can't really compare such a watch with say, a work of art. Art communicates a worthy emotion, a watch tells the time.

A Patek Phillipe is not a watch. The advert merely discerns between those who get that and those who don't.

WK2 marketing at Bus School and top prof walks in to the lecture room, points to his Rolex and asks shy Asian lady, "What's this?" She replies, "It's a watch." Cue a few repetitions and an increasingly embarrassed lady who could not see what the prf was getting at - it was marketing after all!!

Even after the prof's hint, "If I wanted something to tell the time, I would have bought a swatch.". Slightly painful (for her) but clear illustration of the point.

I feel sorry for people that go around seethingly envious of what others can afford

It's not envy. My bike collection could easily cover most of these watches so it's not like I couldn't find the money.

A Patek Phillipe is not a watch.

Yes it is. It's just a watch. The emperor is naked too.

Well only a fool would pay £ks for something that only tells the time mol!

Take that as you see fit! 😉

for some i'd say there is a similar emotion in owning an expensive watch.

I'd say that's an emotion that you've been fed. You like it because of its cachet, its reputation, how it was made and yes, what it cost.

Now I'm sure a lot of the art world is driven by the same waffle. Most of it, probably. That's why I would rather have a print than an original famous painting. Because the content is still there.

If there was a way to perfectly duplicate a Patek Phillipe watch for 1/50 the price, would you? I bet not.

If there was a way to perfectly duplicate a Patek Phillipe watch for 1/50 the price, would you? I bet not.

Good market in fakes, you can get very good ones too for not too much - much less than 1/50

If there was a way to perfectly duplicate a Patek Phillipe watch for 1/50 the price, would you? I bet not.

No because the price of the PP would fall. Why would you do that?

Buying the fake is even worse surely? Falling for the marketing man's dream but buying something that will become worthless quickly.

If I was loaded I would have an expensive watch, why not.
I would have a brand new Mercedes too.

A flash watch does not say bell end to me, it just says i can afford and expensive watch. And to be honest it's not something I would even notice unless they pointed out their expensive watch.

I've seen more expensive watches that, to me, look horrible, than ones that I like the look of.

If I had millions in the bank this might tempt me though. Horses for courses obviously.

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A Patek Phillipe is not a watch.

Well, it's secondary function is as a watch, it's primary function is a piece of jewellery to demonstrate how much money the wearer has.

it's primary function is a piece of jewellery to demonstrate how much money the wearer has.

Muggers say it performs this function very well.

Hilarious thread, expensive well made things shouldn't be allowed is that what people here are saying? What about a really expensive hairshirt, would that be OK?

Someone who owns a £20,000 watch probably does not wear a hundred pound suit or drive a £2000 car.
More likely a £1000 suit and a £50,000 car. And I would just think he obviously earns a few quid and no more.

No because the price of the PP would fall. Why would you do that?

So it's purely an investment, nothing else? How do these things perform compared to say the stock market or gold?

What a grimy little advert. I feel dirty having just watched it. Step aside Elite Singles, bad taste just moved up a gear.

Wow, haters gonna hate. Confession, I have a nice watch, although not AP money. British made, employing british workers and paying uk tax. When I bought it vat went to the govt. Some on here would see them all out of work. Maybe we should close all the rolex, omega and other fancy watch emporia whilst we're at it. What about the porsche, Ferrari, rolls-Royce showrooms too. No one needs a boat, so let's close all the yacht showrooms and marinas too. no one needs a £5k bike so let's ban the sale of expensive bikes, they're just showing off....the list goes on.

my cash is very hard earned, I'm not rich but I'll spend my money how I like thanks. In my case that's an 8 year old car 5 year old bike, and yes a nice watch, which is well engineered, looks great and to me is better investment on my wrist than the money sat in the bank earning no interest. Get over it.

I'm pretty certain most people on here would be aghast at what I hang on my wall. If what I spend my money on really offends people on here I truly am sorry they feel that way.

You shouldn't feel that way, after all it fuels the hand wringing, consternation and feelings of fiscal resentment that keep the very essence of STW angst threads going. For that I would like to thank you.

You miss the point, homer.

expensive well made things shouldn't be allowed is that what people here are saying?

No, it's not.

Hilarious thread, I love the humour here and a classic Flounce!

No better way to start a happy new year everyone..

I do wonder however how a 48 grand bike would go down though, would it have a single apologist?

Weekend bump, any Patek owners care to comment? 😕

I've got one, a Nautulis it's a very nice watch, bought it the same time as a bought a Cove G shock the watch is worth 3 times what I paid for it, the bike is worth about a tenth.

So it's purely an investment, nothing else?

No it also tells the time! 😉

How do these things perform compared to say the stock market or gold?

Well. Over past decade average prices have risen 5% per annum. Compound that and it's a good return in absolute and relative terms. Some brands have risen much more in value.

I've got one, a Nautulis it's a very nice watch

Even after working in financial services marketing for 20 years I've always thought that Patek Philippe positioning was pretentious and smug... and really not a brand I'd want to work on...

But marketers know what people don't know or aren't prepared to admit about themselves and that's that status matters, and the brands and products we choose for ourselves are as much about status display as the essential functionality they deliver. On that note, Patek Philippe know exactly what they're doing. As do Porsche, Range Rover, Gillette, Waitrose, Apple, Rapha, Estate Agents, Armani etc etc etc.

There is absolutely no rational need for a Patek Phillipe - you can get perfectly accurate timepieces for under £10. But people still buy them - so clearly there is a need amongst some people to spank several grand on one...

It's often quite interesting to get people to rationalise why they've spent a huge amount of cash on something they could've bought for a fraction of the price which would deliver the same functional benefit... they're quite complicit in the game but generally refuse to accept that...

Look at all the slow MTBers and roadies with expensive bikes which they're not skilled or fit enough to ride to the bike's real capability and tell me there's not something else going on in the decision-making process...

amazing that we haven’t had any mention of 'veblen goods’. the Godwins law for luxury non-essentials threads.

roadies with expensive bikes which they're not skilled or fit enough to ride to the bike's real capability and tell me there's not something else going on in the decision-making process.

Not quite the same comparison.

A lighter, £2000 road bike, will make someone go a bit faster and it will also be more pleasant to ride, compared to a £150 BSO.

MrSmith - Member

Genta's best design IMHO would have one over an AP Royal Oak any day.

I've got a soft spot for the Oyster Quartz he did.

There really is some haters of nice watches on here. The fact is its whoevers money and they can spend it however. The comment regarding people on flash bikes stands very true. At ardrock this year there were people coming over the line very late on very expensive bikes, were they still smiling, of course they were, happy just to have made it round as much as the bloke on that old fashioned 26"er. I'm happy to admit I'm jealous of other people's bikes sometimes, however I've never looked at someones casio and thought what a peasant.

So for the haters, if I decided to buy a man bauble that was just a beautifully designed and finished piece of engineering, which had a lovely mechanism that moved a couple of dials with no other purpose than being decorative, is that better or worse than if the same thing tries to indicate the time of day? Trying to understand whether it's the timekeeping that's behind all the frothing or if it's something more. Oh, then what if the same thing doesn't have a mechanism at all but is just a nicely made bauble for a lady? Did you all buy the cheapest engagement ring in the shop because a more expensive one doesn't make you any more engaged.

Haters +1

Did we not have a similar thread some time ago when someone said there was a documentary on about rolls Royce.
The scorn poured on anyone who owns the trappings of the well off is beyond me.

Some people are well off and spend there money on expensive things. Does not make them a bell end just fortunate.
Every now and again you read of some poor old codger who's popped their clogs after living the life of a pauper only to find out they were worth a small fortune. Now that's weird, if you have earned it you may aswell enjoy it.

I’d never heard of Genta. For those of you that like his designs, I found This interesting. (8 page pdf file)

It was linked at the foot of this page Gérald Genta, a historical interview

BBC2 7:00pm Sun 3 Jan
The Millionaire's Gift Guide – part of which is: “A vintage watch dealer attends the world's most exclusive timepiece auction in Geneva.”

Lastly, if you don’t already know, there are VERY convincing ?f?a?k?e?s? reproductions of most high-end watches available nowadays, some with ETA movements.

Trying to understand whether it's the timekeeping that's behind all the frothing or if it's something more.

Of course it isn't. Why would timekeeping be a problem? Given that you can buy a great timekeeper for £20, that makes expensive watches a pretence.

Re engineering - I consider them terrible engineering. A key requirement for a good engineering solution is efficiency, and given they cost thousands that's not efficient.

Re the bauble - if it's art, then go ahead. But I maintain these things are not art. They don't say anything beautiful. I believe that people only love these things because we (as a society, over decades or more) have been conditioned to do so by the people that make them. And nothing on this thread has made me think otherwise.

The scorn poured on anyone who owns the trappings of the well off is beyond me.

Nooo, its not the trappings I am scorning, it's specifically watches. And a few other things.

That's all fine. What expensive treats do you enjoy or buy for yourself on a landmark occasion?
Just curious ?

last December i oversaw a job/exhibition at some s****y Munich Hotel (Charles) for Jaeger LeCoultre.

the cheapest watch on display was 240,000€. the most expensive was over 1.4m€...!

by the end there were more security standing around than chippies, sparks and technicians setting the exhibition up.

needless to say, the guests were of a certain ilk. lots of pink trousers, neckerchiefs, ****y glasses, fur coats, air kissing/pouting, and gawdiness going on....

was fun telling them to leave at the end of the evening and ripping up the carpet whilst one woman was half-asleep/drunk on the stage.

nice watches? not really.

money can buy you anything, but not necessarily good taste.

What about [url= http://www.poshpuppyboutique.com/La_Jeune_Tulipe_Diamond_Dog_Pet_Collar_p/ildd-150.htm ]dog baubles[/url] ?

If you can afford it, why not.

Sorry I'm just not getting it.
Why buy an 8 bed house, you can live fine in a 2 bed terrace
Why buy a Bentley, a skoda bra will do everything it can
Why buy a £5k Armani suit, one from M&S will do just fine
Agree with the engagement ring thing above, perfect example.

The answer is because you can, and it gives pleasure to own it. So if you can, why the hell not.

None, I just buy things as and when. Why wait for a landmark occasion? If a bike/car/guitar or whatever appeals I'll buy and if it doesn't I won't. I can't remember buying anything at all for my 40th, had one Christmas present (a head torch from Madame), but don't worry about the cost of toys when I buy them.

A Celestion alnico guitar speaker sounds differnt ot a cheap one; a Look bike goes uphill easier than a cheap one; a full bounce Lapierre is easier to handle than something from halfords. But a watch?

Some French politician claimed you'd failed in life if you didn't have a Rolex by a certain age. I reckon a sign of success is not needing a watch at all at the youngest possible age. Not carrying a phone or a watch means you've really made it good.

My problem with most of this stuff is on aesthetic grounds.

It's all just such gaudy tat!

Take the daft price tag and the 'prestige' name off it and most of this stuff would look perfectly at home in the jewellery section of an Argos catalogue, in with the sovereign rings and charm bracelets

Re engineering - I consider them terrible engineering. A key requirement for a good engineering solution is efficiency, and given they cost thousands that's not efficient.

Not true. Any design will have requirements. 'Efficiency' isn't defined enough to be a requirement. Efficiency in what? Cost? Production time?
The marketing department will write the spec, and I'm sure the designers meet the spec.

But I maintain these things are not art.

In your view. That doesn't mean they're not art, or that some people think they are, and get pleasure from looking at them.

You can park a Skoda (not that I'd buy one) anywhere and people will ignore it, drive a Skoda and other road users won't discriminate against you, it probably won't go wrong (perhaps because there's less to go wrong) but if it does you will have no trouble getting it fixed. The Skoda is simply a better car for almost anything you use a car for than a Bentley, the only advantage of the Bentley I can see being it tells people you're a ****.

Love my breitling and I work in investment banking

Good for you.

Thanks for sharing

Binners +1

It really is not about hating or envy.

Anyone can buy what the hell they want. They can think it is worth whatever they want. But they can't expect the rest of us to believe it is about taste, or engineering, or an investment strategy.

It's a symbol which purchasers think is of class and style. But you don't just buy those.

Love my breitling

Even after watching what has to be one of the dumbest adverts on television with some bimbo hanging around on the ground while some smug, macho prick flys a plane around trying to impress.