[Closed] Yesterday I did something stupid, but would have done the same?

You did the right thing.
He's your dog you love him.
You saved him.
No question if you were right.

Twice a year every year your family would be numb with grief.

Then your wife will be naked-snuggling up in bed stroking another manwhilst he grins holding her hair in both hands. All thanks to [insert generic dogs name].

Harsh but true.

Well from the highly thought through, intelligent and articulate responses from people who would leave their children fatherless for the sake of a big, daft furry shitting machine, who's probably a lot better swimmer than they are anyway, I now feel a bit silly for suggesting that is in fact the behaviour of an idiot

that's a very good point Binners, but its not actually what you said so why don't you clip clop back under your bridge

Are you sat there pressing refresh? Wow. Just wow.

AA - what is it with some dog owners? Who are heavily represented on this forum. They seem to think that because of their own emotional incontinence towards their canines, that it's somehow compulsory for everyone else to share their inexplicable enthusiasm.

They either cannot comprehend, or simply refuse to accept that a lot of people (myself included - can you tell?) just view dogs as a noisy, filthy, smelly, stupid and potentially explosively violent, crap-generating nuisance. I can't work out which it is.

Everyone has stuff they don't like, but somehow it's been deemed verboten by dog owners to be critical of their belovedly idiotic slobbering pets, or to suggest that any restrictions be placed on their right to do whatever they please. If a dog had been on a lead it wouldn't have ended up in a river, and nobody would subsequently have had to risk their lives.

Overall... I'm not being swayed from my original assumption about the links between dogs, dog owners, frankly weird co-dependent relationships and stupidity

F*** me the dog bummers are out in force again. First all the "the dog bit your leg off because you looked at him so is your fault" threads now this...

There is a distinct difference between not sharing someone's enthusiasm for something and behaving like a pillock.
I fear that is a distinction you seem unable to make.

Dog mouth lickers closing ranks, again!

Smart Alec arseholes grouping together too it would seem...

Surely by your name calling you're just confirming the emotionally-charged illogicalities stated about a certain type of dog owner in my last post?

Jumping into a river, and putting your life at risk in the process, to save a dog is the very pinnacle of irrational behaviour IMHO.

I like dogs but I shy away when humans treat something lower down the food chain as basically 'one of the family'.

Its a pet not a surrogate child FFS.

Now can we have a mosh thread please 😆

I wonder if you'd still think you'd done the right thing as the cold flood water fills your lungs...

Dogs live ~10-12 years, people might have 5+ dogs in their life, they die you get over it eventually. That's quite different if it is your father or son...

Not to mention if someone else is killed in the process. How would you feel if you And your dog got out but the person who saved you didn't? Any normal person would never really get over that.

Sorry, but I hoped that this thread would die the quiet death it deserved.

As somebody who has trained people in Water Safety for 10+ years, acts as a tester for water safety equipment and performed rescues in water the OP's actions were reckless in the extreme. If you make an emotional reaction to an emergency situation you had better be very lucky. The floods recently always bring back memories of tragedies and lucky escapes that I have seen.

If you take the emotional responses to these situations, particularly those involving nearest and dearest, whatever species, we all know that we would think:

"I need to do something."

However from bitter experience that thought, more often than not, involves the death of the person thinking it unless trained and resourced to do the job. You still need all the bravery and luck that you would to get in, but you would know how to change your actions as the situation develops. Very few people can sit by and watch events unfold without wanting to get involved. In cases such this a very small change in circumstances leads to a very different outcome.

So if you want to get in by all means do so, but think: think of the people that may then have to get you out of the situation if things go wrong; think of those you may leave behind if you do decide to get in; think what you can do with the least danger to yourself. Have a back up plan, make a call and be lucky.

Ours is a surrogate child, probably explains a lot about me.
Still, I can see this is just becoming a good old stw circular argument & Moonfleet is on telly so I'll default the win to the none dog lovers and keep my blood pressure at a reasonable level. X

To the I'd risk it crowd- If you loved dogs THAT much you could not take it to be put down at the end of its life.

Comeback to sanity, its nowhere near worth a human life. Ever.

mattbee,why didn't you adopt a child?Or do you not like people?

Again you make a few reasonable points binners and then you just go back to calling all dog owners stupid and then start bleating when someone responds in kind.

Hora, are dogs lower in the food chain? I would suggest that wolves and humans are on very similar trophic levels. Not sure daschunds etc count.

I wonder about the psychology of dog "lovers" Do they feel that dogs are the same as people on an emotional level? Is that because of,or in spite of,a dog's low intelligence level,and inability to communicate in any meaningful way?

Oh,and it feels very odd to agree with hora 🙄

Are dogs that stupid? Many can be trained to do all sorts of useful things such as guide dogs or assistance dogs. They are able to read and respond to human emotions in ways that truely stupid animals, sheep for example cannot. Mind you the question on this thread isnt about intelligence its about how you respond in stressful situations and even the op said what he did was stupid. Dogs play on human emotions in much the same way as kids do, acts seemingly altruistic are in fact from an evlutionary point of view rarely altruistic. We are genetically programmed to respond in these ways that put us at risk.

Grow up,and stop treating them like that,dogs and kids.Treat the dogs as the animals they are,and the kids as potential human beings.

Was that post aimed at me? If so you might have to explain just wtf you are talking about. If not feel free to carry on ranting.

AA you appear to be saying that dogs have human like intelligence and emotional responses like children,if my interpretation is incorrect,please explain,otherwise feel free to carry on ranting.

Try reading it again

why didn't you adopt a child?Or do you not like people?

Your dog, your life, not sure there is anything else to discuss is there?

Dogs play on human emotions in much the same way as kids do

Now I know what you mean, and I dont disagree, but you could have clarified. It is not unreasonable to claim this means you are comparing them

Based on actual science rather than emotion, dogs aren't even in the top 10 for intelligence. So if you are basing on that I hope you don't eat pigs and I'm sure you treat rats with the same respect as a human being as they are considered smarter then dogs.

This is going well.. 😀

huckleberryfatt,my wife and I could only have one child of our own,we wanted a larger family,we didn't buy a dog,we adopted a child.

a dog is not worth the loss of a single human life. how many family members would mourn you for years to come ? a dead dog however the is owner upset for a few weeks, then replaces it with another pup.
last year a lad went in after his dog, his brother went after him, and then the father went after both of them.all three died, the dog trotted off. thousands at the funerals, go figure

If taken in isolation from the rest of the post and you read it determined to find fault and with preconcieved ideas about what you want it to mean. Even then thats not what it means because thats not what it says. My dog shows very few emotions but is able to read mine very astutely at times.

Based on actual science rather than emotion, dogs aren't even in the top 10 for intelligence. So if you are basing on that I hope you don't eat pigs and I'm sure you treat rats with the same respect as a human being as they are considered smarter then dogs.

based on actual science wolves are thought to be better at problem solving than dogs, but dogs try and get the experimenters to solve the problems because they know that the humans can do it. Is that stupid or not?

My pet dolphin - Colin - is miles more intelligent than any dog! Has never needed rescuing from a river, and as an added bonus, I've never stood in one of his turds that he just curled off on the pavement outside the front of the house

You know AA on rerereading your post it is even more worrying,are you saying that human beings are genetically programmed to respond to manipulation by dogs?

Thejesmond...., your comment about adoption was aimed at me. At least you knew that my wife and I had been declined as adoptive parents, it would have been a bit thoughtless of you to have just assumed we hadn't exhausted every ****ing possible way of having children, wouldn't it? Since you know me so well. I mean, dogs are just bloody stupid animals whereas people are so intelligent...

To the I'd risk it crowd- If you loved dogs THAT much you could not take it to be put down at the end of its life.

Some people take their loved ones to be euthanised if/when they deteriorate to the point of having no quality of life. Is it not the same thing?

Sorry mattbee,not aware of your adoptive problem or wouldn't have made the comment,my apologies to you and mrs mattbee,it wasn't meant to be so offensive.

Nick - Member
Your dog, your life, not sure there is anything else to discuss is there?

Not always the case, though. Not when someone has to go in and find the owner of the dog.

Thankyou. I appreciate that.

I think some people on this thread need to get out for a ride.
They seem a little up tight and in need of a bit of an outlet of all their pent up feelings.
The OP saved something he loves.
Seems like he did the right thing to me.

Stu - I couldn't agree more mate! I've not been near my bike for a month due to my spazzy shoulder. Hence me being an even more insufferable dick than usual!

Sorry to everyone I've called stupid!

Binners.
A couple of wet and cold nightrides and a few beers in the pub after will see you back to full mental wellbeing. 🙂

my apologies to you and mrs mattbee,it wasn't meant to be so offensive.

Thankyou. I appreciate that.

Sorry to everyone I've called stupid!

Khani,I don't mind offending people,but I don't like hurting them.

You know AA on rerereading your post it is even more worrying,are you saying that human beings are genetically programmed to respond to manipulation by dogs?

nope, keep trying

To the OP: Yes I would have done the same, well done for saving your furry friend. And yes, it was a stupid thing to do 🙂

Dogs are ace. Whether they are intelligent or not intelligent is beside the point. You love them, they love you.

Dogs and bikes. Bikes and dogs. The two best things that ever happened to me 🙂

Oh AA you're so mysterious,why don't you just say what you mean?

My pet gibbon - Nigel - has just looked up contemptuously from the Times crossword and remarked that dogs are even more stupid than squirrels! And you should hear the jokes he tells about squirrels

Oh AA you're so mysterious,why don't you just say what you mean?

I did.

[i]just view dogs as a noisy, filthy, smelly, stupid and potentially explosively violent, crap-generating nuisance. [/i]

To be fair, that description applies to lots of people as well.

Must be me then,not owning a dog has obviously made me moronic.

just view dogs as a noisy, filthy, smelly, stupid and potentially explosively violent, crap-generating nuisance.

To be fair, that description applies to lots of people as well.

I'm quite surprised by some of the responses here - I think mainly the idea that people believe they're somehow correct in the arrogant opinion that we're somehow more important than any other creature on the planet.

Of course, our survival often depends on prioritising the importance of our own being, that of our family, and even of our species. But to state, like it is an absolute fact of the universe, that human beings are the most important thing on this planet, is ****ing stupid. We're only important to ourselves.

OP, you obviously feel a strong bond with your dog, and you did what you felt you had to do at the time. Well done. That compassion is one of the greatest features of the human race. It just doesn't seem very prevalent on STW.

I think this thread shows that people have too much time off work at this time of year.

Hindsight = not such a sensible thing to do
In the moment = instinct

Don't over analyse it. All is well.

Well said butcher,hope I'm never in that situation with my dog or any member of my family,well done xterramac.

[img] [/img]

This would all be solved by making life jackets compulsory for dogs.
Along with insurance and road tax.

That dog hasn't got a helmet on.

OP, you obviously feel a strong bond with your dog, and you did what you felt you had to do at the time. Well done. That compassion is one of the greatest features of the human race. It just doesn't seem very prevalent on STW.

Except that when considered rationally it's actually displaying a lack of compassion for your loved ones and for those who might end up trying to rescue you.

It's understandable in the heat of the moment but it's a completely irrational thing to do.

http://www.mirror.co.uk/news/uk-news/uk-weather-man-dies-after-2958120
http://www.lep.co.uk/news/man-dies-trying-to-rescue-dog-from-ambleside-river-1-6334495
http://www.bostonglobe.com/news/nation/2012/11/27/california-boy-parents-swept-out-sea-dog-rescue-attempt/UNMkqrHIwCOYgakfxn33dN/story.html

The search was called off Monday for a teenager whose parents were killed after they plunged into the cold, powerful surf in Northern California in a nightmarish chain of events that started when their son tried to save the family dog from drowning. Eureka residents Mary Elena Scott, 57, and Howard Gregory Kuljian, 54, both drowned Saturday, said Ariel Gruenthal, a deputy coroner in Humboldt County. The boy, Gregory James Kuljian, has not been found and is presumed dead.

Of course, our survival often depends on prioritising the importance of our own being, that of our family, and even of our species. But to state, like it is an absolute fact of the universe, that human beings are the most important thing on this planet, is * stupid. We're only important to ourselves.

That compassion is one of the greatest features of the human race. It just doesn't seem very prevalent on STW.

I'm with Grum and binners, and everyone else on this thread who has mentioned the dog not being on a lead.

Someone up there ^ mentioned this: we only hear about the dog rescues that go wrong. This is true. We don't hear about the dog rescues that go right. So the conclusion is that all dog rescues are dangerous.

Imagine you're a non-cyclist: the media carry stories of the cyclists killed in London. There are no stories of the thousands upon thousands of journeys made every day with no problems at all. One might conclude that riding a bike means you will certainly die under a lorry.

Therefore, perhaps the conclusion is that, while there is risk in rescuing one's dog, one will not necessarily die - and neither will anyone else.

For the record, my dogs are always on leads unless I know for absolute certain that there are no hazards.

"Dive" into a river in spate to save a dog? No chance. Wade in after assessing the flow and the run out area if I got washed of my feet? Possibly, depending on the flow and depth.

Years ago I watched a person drown 50 yards out into a fast flowing shoulder deep river as I assessed there was no way I would get near him in the prevailing conditions. Not jumping in wasn't an easy thing to do but it was the correct thing. It was later established that the only reason he wasn't getting washed rapidly downstream was because of the heavy steel drain cover he had tied to his ankles before jumping off the bridge.

A friend of my dads survived years of summer and winter climbing at a high level then drowned in a river crossing.

Was the OP correct to save his dog? I wasn't there so I don't know, it depends on the water conditions and his swimming ability.

Have we done cats, would you save a cat?

^nahh 😛

Have we done cats, would you save a cat?

No way! If I've just put six kittens and a brick in a pillow case and dropped them off the canal bridge then I'm hardly going to jump in and fish then out again. (Even if the canal water is static and only four feet deep)

It's difficult to see how you'd end up in a river while eating, sleeping of terrorising small rodents, so I doubt you'd ever need to rescue a cat.

I have never found a walk where I can be certain there are no hazards. But I would rather not have a dog at all than restrict them to exercising only on a lead. How selfish would that be?

You would just do it where the hazards are, like most dog owners do.

[i]Have we done cats, would you save a cat? [/i]
People who would jump into a river to save a cat are dead inside.

by the way, this just popped up on my twitter feed.
[img] [/img]

You would just do it where the hazards are, like most dog owners do.

molgrips - Member
You would just do it where the hazards are, like most dog owners do.

True. But there are always unexpected hazards. The issue is how best to respond. And the advice from most emergency services would always be to avoid putting yourself at risk. As a lifeguard you are trained that the last measure is to enter the water whether for a human or an animal. And even in the water, you don't put yourself at risk.

I would have gone in for the mutt. A few years ago in Wales we saw a dog run over a cliff and disappear although we could hear yelping. The owner was distraught and the only help we could offer was to call mountain rescue. They advised they wouldn't come out for a dog which is fair enough. I asked the guy on the phone would he leave his or attempt to climb down. We met them walking up with the absaling gear so they only had the dog to rescue not a person. The guy later tracked us down through Mountain Rescue to thank us. Mutt and man safe. Hurray for daft dogs and Mountain Rescue!

Such sad people.

Well done OP, but think next time.

OP here, thanks for all the comments, sorry I've not put any pics of "solo" up, not that computer savvy. But for the record he is a collie.
A couple of things worth mentioning, yes I am a very strong swimmer(as that was asked)and secondly, hindsight is awesome!! I was deffo pretty stupid to go in right away, but like I said, I love that dog, he is my best pal. Id have gone in to save your dog too or your kid, cat, hamster, even you "binners" at the time, however if anything like that was to happen again I would certainly have a think first, a lot of you guys/gals are right, it could have gone to shite.

Cheers Macs

Solo?

[img] [/img]

I'd thank you for going in after my kid, but I'd hold you back from going in after my dog. Unless it was wading i to shallows or something.

OP, that was a totally stupid thing to do.

I would have done exactly the same!