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Edit: Btw this was perfectly good humoured and light-hearted thread, until the usual angry punter wades in.
I simply don’t like you. Just so we’re clear.
Good back pedal though, you should consider bike gymkhan.
So you don't think that the references to Dad's Army and 1066, for example, were perfectly good humoured and light-hearted?
It's not just me, apparently, based on your constant outbursts of anger against anyone who offends you.
And just to be clear I don't post on here to be 'liked' by you, you're bully, so it suits me fine.
Btw it's not just you, it's part of the stw culture - anger and sometimes staggering levels of intolerance. It creates a toxic and poisonous environment in which people feel that they are threading on eggshells.
Anyway I don't suppose anything will change, only the concentration of angry intolerant punters.
It’s not just me, apparently, based on your constant outbursts of anger against anyone who offends you.
Offence? Chap, it takes more than the likes of you or others on this forum to offend me. I just think you and a couple of others spout crap constantly, take pleasure in trying to annoy people and then relish crying about it after.
As for 'constant', hyperbole much? But that is kinda your forte so have come to accept nothing less.
I'll reflect on my delivery to others for sure, and if the moderate, decent posters I've offended want to make themselves know I'll offer them my sincere apologies.
Anyway I don’t suppose anything will change, only the concentration of angry intolerant punters.
Often matched by the vexatious posts of an angry man who dances in a spiral trying to get the upper hand in nearly every thread
As the sixth Duke of Westminster said, when asked how to get rich, his top piece of advice was “to have an ancestor who was good friends with William the Conqueror”.
Which does sound better than the truth. Whilst they can trace their ancestors back to norman invaders given the minor lands granted they werent exactly mates with William.
The majority of their wealth comes from the Audleys who brought up a ton of what became London. Their history is somewhat more obscure with the wealth being gathered by one of them being both a moneylender and someone who looks to have heavily abused his position as a clerk of the court of wards and liveries which gave a lot of opportunity for making money.
Having read the speech, and not what journalists and No.10 spox has said, the general is referring to the generation of the third echelon in the event of a large scale, expeditionary force. It’s over a decade since I was more engaged in this so might not be 100% accurate:
The first echelon would be the mobilisation of the regular military plus specialist elements of the reserves (e.g medics) the second echelon would typically follow 6 months later, comprising regulars not mobilised the first time, plus further elements of the volunteer reserve. Where the difficulty arises is after 1+ year, where you need to start mobilising resources not just to continue combat operations, but also to counter-insurgency and facilitate stabilisation and reconstruction. This was where the Iraq campaign failed, because of the failure to implement effective law and order, water and power that then led to the insurrection.<br />There are also ‘defence’ tasks that are assigned to the military at home in the UK such as flood resilience, natural disasters that would now need to be done by civilians because the military wouldn’t be there to do it. So in effect, conscription would involve doing things like filling sand bags in your home town rather than fighting Russians on the steppe.
Keyboard warriors of STW needn’t worry….
Great summary @dovebiker
This was where the Iraq campaign failed
Sacking the entire Army and police force didn't help either, making a bunch of skilled and trained people unemployed in their own country was Rumsfeld's bright idea and oh, how that bit everyone in the arse.
We created a ready made militia, Iran just added the water (arms) and off it went.
I think the challenge in today's society would be the sheer range of roles that are deemed essential eats into any resource pool, but i'm sure there's a lot of industry knowledge that defence could benefit from.
@ernielynch et all, infantry training typically takes 6 months and then the newly qualified soldiers move to thier respective units, that's when they are further instructed on different skill sets which are constantly practiced and enhanced through further training, courses, exercises etc. This results in professional highly skilled individuals working together to a single purpose to achieve their objective, warfare, assisting civilian powers, humanitarian aid etc.
I've been an infantry instructor twice, both two year posts. I was very much physically fitter and mentally robust than any 18 yo recruit well into my mid 30's. No 18yo's in the SF world as they would have none of the required above/experience.
As being younger and more apt to take risks I would have to agree with the RM. The risks are calculated by your peers and direct line of command and through training. Yes there are benefits of having individuals that take risks for the good of thier comrades or group, but that cannot border on behind reckless and doing the opposite of endangering them.
Prob quite a few serving or veterans on this forum who have put thier bodies and minds on the line for this country whatever other members views are, however some comments on here are rather bizarre.
I'm in my 50's and am still pretty much the same risk taker as I was when 18, probably a trait that has served me well as a serviceman and civilian. You can train in, however IMHO you have to want to do that sort of stuff.
Sorry for the waffle, hope that gives some reference to the discussion.
Edit: Dovebiker, nail, head.
@inbred I think the biggest hurdle would be reforming the Army Reserve into a deployable force beyond a handful that are that way inclined, The volume of training that is required by a multitude of cap badges is often beyond reservists to complete in a period of time that is realistic and minimises skill fade coupled with the very 'relaxed' contract.
To increase the commitment would come with a burden to reimburse civilian employers and legislate for better protections to ensure reservists couldn't be discriminated against when it came to employment.
Gen Sanders concept is great, I think the execution would be a rather large headache.
@RM, I agree there, I spent my last 1 1/2 years as a reservist with a very well trained and manned unit. It was however a complete fantasy that 30,000 reservists could be brought to bear to bolster the regular army. Looks fabulous on paper, in reality a total smoke and mirrors exercise by the politicians.
I have seen both very good and very bad reservists in my former unit over the decades.Not totally putting all reservist in the same pot, some great individuals, however if it all kicked off the, "bounty hunters", would be off like the proverbial shot😁
But at least we would win the most argumentative, talking out of your arse forum war🤣........god I feel safer already.
We'll be safer than steak at a Vegan BBQ.
so is relapsed madelorian Cpt Mainwaring?
so is relapsed madelorian Cpt Mainwaring?
No, I'm Pike.
🙂
quite a good episode of the News Agent podcast on this tonight.
Address the root cause of the recruit & retain issues that the professional military have suffered for a decades!
This should be the priority, rather than talking about press ganging people who have no motivation.
If you've served in either service, we all know the issues and the P**s poor conduct of the .Gov to change anything.
If the professional troops aren't motivated to serve, what chance is motivating civvies!?
Led by Donkeys!
No, I’m Pike.
Don’t tell em………
If the professional troops aren’t motivated to serve, what chance is motivating civvies!?
can we get some in from an agency? 😉
If the professional troops aren’t motivated to serve, what chance is motivating civvies!?
There's also something in serving a government and nation that represents the values you stand for. Look at V&S and tell me how many ways the current Govt take a huge shit on them.
But yeah, you're spot on, how the hell do you even begin to motivate in the face of recent choices.
Boxer, I'm looking at you.
can we get some in from an agency?
Of course you can, but mercenaries, sorry, Military Contractors are not really good for all the things you want an army to do. You can use them effectively for guarding things or providing security, but I don't think there is a rent-a-navy or a fly-by-mile service anywhere. Even the Russian Wagner group was more keen on working in Africa guarding mines than in fighting in Ukraine.
TL;DR: War is a national military thing and, if you want to take and hold ground you really need a professional, well recruited, well trained and well directed army to do it properly.
can we get some in from an agency?
Don't pay them on a Friday though, or Vladimir will invade on Saturday 😜
Seems to be quite a few reservists In the tory party including Ruth Davidson - tank commander 🙂 I am sure they will all be at the front of the queue
Davidson? She was in the TA Royal Signals for a few years. But yeah, there's plenty and obviously they'd be the first ones volunteering their skills and leadership acumen. 😂
she loves posing with a tank tho so must be well qualified.
she loves posing with a tank tho so must be well qualified.
See also, Mark Francois.
As a general rule, the more that politicians talk about their previous service/reserve service, the less they actually did or would ever do.
Can't remember who it was (another vile Tory no doubt) who banged in an awful lot about his reserve service 15 years ago where the nearest he got to a combat situation was a mild disagreement in the NAAFI queue.
Still, could be worse...
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e loves posing with a tank tho so must be well qualified.
Liz Truss will be there
Kier has the 1000 yard stare down though.
He is staring at Theresa May running through that wheat field. I can imagine his next speech now....
"YOU WASN'T THERE MAN, YOU DIDN'T SEE WHAT I SAW"
Naked?
AI generated a horrific image that I don't have the balls to post.
Here's the SFW version.
MSP, na that's Starmer getting himself pysch'd up for the infamous MP's 5 miler of death😁
Gen Sanders concept is great
Greasy chicken covered in batter ?
No wait...thats Colonel Sanders.
I’m in my 50’s and am still pretty much the same risk taker as I was when 18, probably a trait that has served me well as a serviceman and civilian. You can train in, however IMHO you have to want to do that sort of stuff.
Sorry for the waffle, hope that gives some reference to the discussion.
Not waffle at all, it raises an interesting point and brings to attention the big difference between a professional army and a conscript one.
I reckon the difference between the two might be greater than some people think, your job as in an instructor would certainly have been very different.
My experience was only as a conscript but I am absolutely certain that it would have been very different had I been a professional soldier in a professional army.
One very obvious difference is discipline. I made it to corporal but there was zero chance that I would put a fellow conscript on a charge. That was the accepted attitude across all conscripts - a conscript didn't put another conscript on a charge, not even a conscripted lieutenant (the highest rank for a conscript) would. It did occasionally happen but it was very rare indeed.
Professional soldiers, who were always either NCOs or officiers, however regularly charged conscripts. Although even among professional soldiers attitudes could also be extremely relaxed because often the reason they signed on was to avoid conscription, not because they were necessarily attracted to military life.
Conscripts didn't get paid, just pocket money, free train tickets, cigarettes, etc. If you signed on you received a proper wage and could eat it the NCO/officiers messes. You had to sign on for a minimum of probably about 5 years - you can't buy yourself out of the French armed forces.
Most reluctantly conformed but some conscripts simply never accepted military life - can you imagine being an instructor dealing with those? I don't know how dishonourable discharge works in the UK but that option didn't exist for conscripts. Wayward behaviour would land you in what was called "the hole", a tiny cell with no window apart from the bars on the door. Any time in the hole was simply added to the end "liberation day" as it was called.
Civilian courts would often waiver sending young offenders to prison if they agreed to complete their military service in high discipline units, can you imagine what sort of soldiers they made?
Add to that the fact that many conscripts were often members of far-left organisations/trade unionists/pacifists (although to be fair France might be different than the UK in that respect) and you can see that conscript armed forces can be very different to professional armed forces. And imo probably a lot saner.
Obviously I am talking just about conscription but that is the subject of this thread. And btw I definitely took more risks when I was 18 than I took three decades later.
Didn't sleep so well last night and ended thinking about this again. Not sure this subject would have been the cause as I enjoyed a lot of my time. Anyway, out of curiosity I checked and there is nothing in service still (equipment) that I worked on so I would be of no use what so ever unless someone need an overly complicate excel sheet making.
unless someone need an overly complicate excel sheet making.
Straight to logistics for you.
UK probably has enough people to survive in most situations with volunteers for professional military without need for conscription.
For smaller countries (1-6 million residents) with more bear-like neighbours there wouldn't be enough volunteers, so far conscription in addition to reasonable sized professional military organization has been working fairly well. People serve 6-12months and then specialist roles have additional training and exercises yearly (usually less often) until they are 50 or 60 years old.
What a terrible thing to wish on anyone. RLC indeed!
If you compare this situation to all the other gov departments, it's the ultimate 'backdoor privatisation '!
Gov model - Underfund and run down gov department (HM Forces) until it can no longer fulfill it's role. Bring in private sector so that .Gov can squirrel public funds to chums.
In this scenario the private sector is the conscripted public 😄
Funds will find their way to chums somehow....... Maybe the drafting contractor.
Funds will find their way to chums somehow……. Maybe the drafting contractor.
Could this be the next evolution of the military-industrial complex?
Draft Dido Harding!
Michelle Mone is already sniffing out the potential contracts, to help cover her upcoming court costs for PPE fraud, and before her assets are frozen...
Michelle Mone is already sniffing out the potential contracts, to help cover her upcoming court costs for PPE fraud, and before her assets are frozen…
All hail Field Marshal Mone.
Shiiiiiit. Crapita is bad enough at the recruiting without bringing in other, shittier private companies. I know of some people that were keen as hell to join, but got such a poor experience during the recruiting that they just gave up. I don't blame them, Crapita have the inverse Midas touch, but somehow still get paid.
For reference, Sweden used to have conscription (and may be heading back to that in some form), but it was not compulsory (as in, you could get out of it if you were unsuitable). It also has, especially in the younger age groups, a large percentage of left-leaning individuals. This does not stop people joining the military, it does not stop them wanting to defend the country or impact their effectiveness in the services. In a lot of cases it is them wanting the country to be a bit more equal, something that, weirdly, exists in the military here.
I hate to say it but there is something alluring about that pic of mone above..
shudder.. I need a cold bath
@willard, they're a car crash, my last job was PSI to to an AR unit, so many potential recruits put off due to being messed around for no good reason.
The MOD expresses concern of the recruiting but expects the potential recruits to do more of the heavy lifting to get through the door than is acceptable, I could rant on at length about them as I spent far too much of my time on the phone to their people trying to unpick delays to allow bods to start training with the troops.