tpbiker. I think its the lack of understanding of many folk on here of what reality is like for many folk. I work alongside folk earning under £18000 pa for very hard full time work. Often as sole breadwinner for a family. People who are delighted to be able to get a housing association house in Niddrie as their dream home, people for whom payday lenders might be the only way of putting food on the table at the end of the month
Or people that my other half sees professionally every day. working 3 zero hours contracts adding up to 30 - 60 hours a week all on minimum wage and supporting a disabled spouse and children on that.
why do you keep using the word ‘entitled
Because you started this off with the view that you simply should be able to have the same type of home as your parents, despite the numerous logical flaws in this position, including: you live in Scotland's and one of the UK's most expensive cities, house prices may have gone up since your folks bought (lower taxes and failure to build houses perhaps to thank for that...)
Oh and what TJ said - work with folk at the low end of the pay scale or those on benefits (vast majority can't work) and you'll see outside your own bubble.
Let's not forget the reduction in availability of housing. Blame anyone with more than two kids if worried about blaming immigrants. 😀
But what you seem to be missing here is that if you have a decent job which pays an above average wage then you are entitled to get a decent house. That is what you work for. You know the bit where it says how much you earn. The key word is ‘earn’. The implication from some on here is that nobody is entitled to a three bedroom house with a garden in somewhere like Edinburgh. So are you saying that everyone in Edinburgh should be glad to live in a small flat? Sounds like envy to me.
Not whilst the current shower of ****s is running the country.
I'm envious of no man. 🙂
Mind you, I do live in Grantchester which has to be one of the more affluent parts of the country.
But what you seem to be missing here is that if you have a decent job which pays an above average wage then you are entitled to get a decent house. That is what you work for. You know the bit where it says how much you earn. The key word is ‘earn’. The implication from some on here is that nobody is entitled to a three bedroom house with a garden in somewhere like Edinburgh. So are you saying that everyone in Edinburgh should be glad to live in a small flat? Sounds like envy to me.
No, we are saying that house price inflation is a problem, but you are kidding yourself if you think you have it bad when your are earning enough to be in the highest tax bracket.
I would say that a hell of a lot of people could not buy the houses their parents owned when they were growing up, and probably most people couldn't afford to buy the houses they now live in at current market rates. That is what happens when tax rates are low and no investment is made in social housing.
The implication from some on here is that nobody is entitled to a three bedroom house with a garden in somewhere like Edinburgh.
If it's my mouth you are trying to put those words into, you've got it wrong.
imnotvery good. so I am entitled to a 3 bed house with garden am I? could someone please give me the £100 000 or so I would need to have my entitlement? I earn more than the national average in a job that quite frankly very few of you even have an inkling of the stresses involved and that very few of you could do. Let alone do it for long enough to be earning above the national average wage.
Its about reality chaps - and some of you simply have no understanding of what reality is like for many folk in this country.
Its about reality chaps – and some of you simply have no understanding of what reality is like for many folk in this country.
This.
There is no excuse for it either.
If you earn it TJ then you are entitled to get a house you can afford. I appreciate that people have it rough, but by and large that isn’t the fault of the people living in a three bedroom semi. & to return to the op the point is I don’t think you get to the root of the problem by upping the tax of such people. There is much more wrong with system than just that.
by and large that isn’t the fault of the people living in a three bedroom semi
I don't think anyone is arguing that it is.
If you earn it TJ then you are entitled to get a house you can afford.
Well some seem to be making the argument that some high earners feel entitled to houses they cannot afford.
I certainly could not afford to buy my flat now. I realise that makes me lucky. I couldn't afford to buy anything in Edinburgh bar a small flat in a rough area even earning over the average wage. ( ah - thats what I did buy all those years ago fortunately for me gentrified now)
I bought my flat for £48 000 when I was earning £20 000 ish. 2 and a bit times my gross earnings. Its now worth maybe £200 000 and I earn £32000 gross pa. More than 6 times
And some high earrners are claiming poverty because they only have £1500pcm after tax and housing costs.
And some high earrners are claiming poverty because they only have £1500pcm after tax and housing costs.
I think you are putting words into peoples mouths there. Stating that you don't think you are rich doesn't mean that you are stating that you are poor.
Definition of Rich; "people who have more than I do."
BUPA have, in the last 10 years or so, taken a lot of the slack up in surgical admittance and the funding model channels the costs over to them from the NHS. This is obviously costly, BUPA wouldn’t undertake such initiatives if the pricing model wasn’t lucrative enough.
You do know BUPA isn't a profit orientated company? The firm is a private company limited by guarantee; it has no shareholders, and any profits (after tax) are reinvested in the business.
It doesn't harm the NHS at all to have them provide services at a fair price.
Gonefishing
Roughly £50k pa = £2.5kpm take home.
Take out £1000 for mortgage and utility bills and you are left with £1500pcm for living.. that’s not a lot of you have a family..
Not a lot? that sounds like claiming poverty to me.
And according to the tax and NI calculator, 50k gives you a take home of 37k a year which is just over 3k a month.
https://www.gov.uk/estimate-income-tax
50k gives you a take home of 37k a year which is just over 3k a month.
But then deduct pension contributions and tax on company car and fuel. It's soooooo unfair having to pay your way leaving a mere £1.5k to play with each month. How can I be a sugar daddy on that?
I was lucky enough to have a grant when I went to Uni and so was MrsG. It enabled us to go when no one else in our families had done before and I’d pay more tax to see that sort of social mobility return.
Also I lost my mum and MrsG’s mum this year. The NHS was brilliant and so clearly underfunded. I’d pay more tax for the NHS.
I also pay more tax than I get it out in services and benefits but I have no problem with that.
Just to be clear, I didn't;t say people in the 40% tax bracket are rich. I was saying that if you earn £50k per year you don't NEED more. i.e. you don't NEED a 3 bed house with a garden, you don't NEED a brand new Audi etc,.
People in tyhe 40% tax braket are amongst the richest few % in the country. this is indisputable. To most of the population me included this is riches that they will never attain. People earning that much are rich.
We got somewhat distracted in a debate about house prices - house price inflation has far outstripped earnings. My salery would need to be more than twice what it now is if my wages had kept up with house price inflation
Another indisputable fact is that we are a low tax country. Not only is the tax take significantly lower than most european countries. We get outr healthcare included in that low tax. Most other countries not only do you pay significantly more tax but you then pay for your healthcare on top. A significant further cost.
This is why our public services are poor. We simply do not pay enough tax to have good services.
And some high earrners are claiming poverty because they only have £1500pcm after tax and housing costs.
👏👌🤷♂️
If that’s directed at me then I’m happy to state that I DO think that it’s not a lot to live on (after morts/utilities) and then feeding a family and adding in childcare, you are absolutely right... and I made my calculations easy for people to read and absorb ^^
BUPA = NFP organisation
Yeah, I did know that thanks. And whether it’s right/wrong or indifferent that BUPA take some of the slack up doesn’t make it right that the NHS has closed Smaller Cottage Hospitals and Care units down that have a direct impact on local people’s lives... and ability to get to the (not local) Super Hospital in the next County.
Well the fact that you think £1500 a month for a family of 4 to live on after housing costs is not much shows just how out of touch you really are. Its far more than the vast majority of the country have to live on. the very fact you factor in childcare costs shows how well off you are. Most people cannot afford paid for childcare.
On hospitals - actually the bigger hospitals have very much better outcomes than the small ones. Well proven by research. cottage hospitals are both hugely expensive per bed and provide substandard care.
So thats on two aspects of your argument you are wrong. Not misguided, not an opinion. simply wrong.
People in tyhe 40% tax braket are amongst the richest few % in the country. this is indisputable. To most of the population me included this is riches that they will never attain. People earning that much are rich.
Says the man who owns multiple properties in one of the UKs most expensive city and then pleads poverty.
It’s rong, not wrong. This is the internet’s and you must play the game.
Sorry if you think I’m out of touch, I maybe in Yoir eyes but not really. I come into touch with people who have similar views, so that’s not out of touch, that’s listening to others who have thoughts about earnings and income and costs for running a family.
To make this absolutely clear:
I have no kids, it’s a choice decision made very early in my life. I have no dependants, nor do I intend to inherit any either.
If you think £1500 a month is unachievable, then you must only mix with people from your own peer group. In the same way I mix with people in my peer group.
We clearly have very different lives, and it seems income streams (based on your views about my perceived views) Not that makes much difference to the thoughts around what my estimated cost for a family of today to live on.
I purposely didn’t factor in the tax credits or child benefit allowances or other benefits that can be claimed for, purely because I have no idea and no need for them. Maybe you could enlighten us?
Start with say an arbitrary income figure of... ummmm... £2000 excl morts/utility’s, deduct what you think is about average for those morts/utilities then add back in tax credits and childcare benefits and other benefits and see where you end up..
I maybe stabbing in the dark here, but I’d guess tax credits are worth what? £250pcm, childcare allowance £300pcm? So add back in £550 to the net figure and let’s see what you can come up with.
Getting all stroppy and pointy fingering me becuse you think “I’m out of touch” simply outlines you are possibly not thinking about a lot of people who do earn an income and have £1500 net to spend..so You are out of touch.
Off you go, give it some of Your real world figures and calculations...
I, and a few others no doubt, are itching to see them.
And you are TJ, and I expect some sort of rebuttal...
*sits pensively scratching my arse.....
Gonefishing - I do not plead poverty. read my posts on this thread. I am rich by comparison to the average adn lucky / have good judgement with it.
Bikeboy - for the vast majority of this country the idea of having £1500 a month after housing costs is totally unattainable. thats the reality and you need a reality check. You idea of what tax credits is is miles off.I earn well above the average. I do not have £1500 a month left after housing costs and I have a comparitiuvly tiny mortgage.
really - claiming poverty on £50 000 pa is ridiculous
t
gonefishing
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I realise I am both lucky and rich owning two small flats between 2 of us which if we sold both would not pay for a 3 bed house with garden within pedal power of my work. I also earn just over the average wage, my other half well under.
Knowing I am relativity rich I would be perfectly happy to pay more tax. Even tho I am poorer than many of you.
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Amazon’s recent payment of tax was laughable. I know a bloke down the road who has just started a distillery, bringing employment, training and tourism to the town and his company has paid more tax in the past year than amazon. They’ve been open since may.
Your mate paid £4.5m in tax? And he's been open 3 months? Are you sure. He won't have even been paid any revenue until the end of Q3/4.
