[Closed] Work place bullying

Do what everyone else in the NHS does when they're bullied - change jobs. Horrible politics in that organisation.

Id happily go back to Private sector but the money isn't as good. And lack of pension in private sector.

The upside of being bullied in your profession is the provision of a large, powerful union who take bullying very seriously. Use it. Record every incident (not with a camera - a notepad should suffice) and wherever possible, join forces with others who feel the same way.

I had a P/T job with the local council and ended up in a similar position. After a short, bitter battle I "won". But changing position is probably the way forward, sadly.

Record & Document, then at least if it goes to Crostructive you have something. All large organisations have problems, it's always easier to sort out the victim than the bullies in these cases as moving a whole team on is tough.

You need a meeting with HR/manager who is independent from the circle, they should also have some confidential reporting mechanisms. Make sure your point of view is raised even if you just want it recorded officially rather than making a complaint.

I would expect that the organisation's data protection leaks like a sieve and it to get back to people fairly quickly.

I know that doesn't sound good but cover your back, unions might be a good route unless they are mates with the people doing the bullying.

I took it on very head on back when I was in the bank- and I guess I'd say I won, but you know, it was a bloody long and dirty fight and in the end not much of a victory. I don't have any great hints to offer, it was all common sense- keep records, have witnesses, union on speed dial, and above all play it very straight in the face of crookedness... But I'll be honest, I wouldn't do it again. In my case, it was a manager so it was very me vs you, in your case if it's colleagues then you can stop them from being so aggressive but you can never make them be good to work with.

Best of luck anyway. If all else fails, get your big brother to beat them up.

Didn't think at 27 I'd be asking about bullying. I could quite honestly say I felt more comfortable when I was in the Army. Proper camaraderie. And I'd do anything to be back in as a Nurse but hypertension controlled by meds stops me. Normally when dealing with bullies at School a verbal torrent and a good punch worked, but that won't work in this situation.

Maybe it will improve but I doubt it.

Didn't think at 27 I'd be asking about bullying.

Chin up, keep a record and keep your nose clean. Don't fall to their level, and try and leave work at work.

this is an infection of the nhs's own making.. more job titles, abbreviationsand pay grades than i can count in one short post.

give folks a title grades then that leads to division which leads to friction and abuse.

your not being bullied, your asking for help a lot and taking 3 months off in your first 8 in the job has put your colleagues under pressure.. of course they feel agrieved.

Yeah you should bloody well have hobbled in on that fractured leg you lazy sod! 🙄

[quote=GaryLake ]Yeah you should bloody well have hobbled in on that fractured leg you lazy sod!
Steady on, lop it off and he done with it 🙂

I'm only asking for help on stuff I don't know. We have a computerised system for requesting and sending blood results etc to path lab. I asked once and that's all I needed. I don't need help doing my job role unless it requires two people. I.e bed bathing a patient.

But if people wanted to get picky because I ask a simple question, I could write a long list about the quality of care demonstrated.

I didn't plan on taking 3 months off it was a accident, the long recovery was due a fracture being diagnosed asa sprained knee. When iI did come back the proper way is a staggered back into work. They put me on 7 shifts in a row, and I slipped and now have torn cartilage in my knee. Other staff members have regular time off due to sickness.

And it's most likely I'll be off again. When I have debridment of my knee or microfracture surgery. If the latter that's six weeks off. I seem to get more support from the ward manager and ward sister. If I narrow it down its just one Assistant Practioner who has a problem and one other RGN. We have two wards for Orthopaedics and not one person has a problem on the other ward with me.

This "person" is a human being just like yourself so nothing to be scared of.

Sounds to me that this "person" is very insecure and, which is more likely the case, jealous. Not that you've had a leg fracture but that you've had time off work and they've had to pick up a bit of slack in your absence when all they wanted to do was play foxy bingo.

I've been bullied a couple of times at work in my adult life. Humanizing the person doing to bullying has always worked for me. Then do a little digging, the internet is a wonderful thing. I almost always seem to find that there is something missing in their life or something going wrong for them. Right or wrong, i take some comfort in that and chose my moment very carefully before broadcasting it at the perfect moment "OH, I HAD NO IDEA YOU LIKED DOGGING"

A good few years back, I was working in some horrible restaurant. the shift manager was a grade A twonk, a proper bully and possible sex offender. Long story short, I live happy in the knowledge that I've tripled my salary since then and he was done for trying to fiddle fruit machines at his last job.

Unfortunately, some people are just born ****ers

Make friends with them be nice to the point of charming, if they hate you this will really wind them up.

NHS can be a refuge of workshy moaners and whiners. Hence the huffing and puffing when being asked to do their job.

Don't take it personally, just pride yourself on how you treat your clients/patients and your colleagues. If a better post comes up, take it, otherwise, seek to improve the environment by picking off and winning over the the least worst of them one by one with charm, good humour and cups of tea, isolating the real nasties to stew in their own juices.

Having been involved in a harassment and bullying case as an independent; if you genuinely feel that you are being bullied then you have a couple of options

a) Ignore it and hope it goes away

b) Try to resolve the matter informally by explaining that you feel the individual’s behaviour was both unwanted and unacceptable and what you want them to do about it. Make notes before-hand and consider taking an independent person with you (TU Rep/Personnel Officer/Senior Line Manger 2+ above you). Speak to them directly in a calm civil manner briefly describing what they said/did that caused offence, listen carefully to any response and absolutely avoid getting involved in any argument. If they start try to start an argument walk away stating that you “will discuss the matter again after a period of reflection” (not when they have cooled down!).

c) Make a formal complaint of bullying or harassment using your internal procedures. My advice for what’s its worth is before going formal is speak to your Line Manager/TU Rep/Personnel Office Equality and Diversity Advisor (or similar). Its surprising what the jungle drums will result in!

This may sounds extreme, but if you get to a serious level such as constructive dismissal and you haven’t got records you’re stuffed.

So make notes; what, when, who; issue notes of what you understood was agreed/not at meetings; ensure all correspondence in writing; record if you are approached by others not directly involved who speak to you about the case either inside or outside of work (it happened and was used as evidence I/we/they said, bla, bla, muddy waters!).

On the positive side any individual who behaves badly once approached by someone who is prepared to tackle their behaviour head on and will make a formal complaint inevitably backs downs, as suspension or unemployment is bad

By change jobs, I dont mean stop being a nurse. I mean go find a different nursing job.

It won't be a one-off, the bully will have history, and will continue. HR should know about it already, but won't admit to you. If they don't know, they and all the other victims need you to start HR earning their money.

i cant understand how a grown up can be bullied.
stand up for yourself.
if you have a grievance, bring it out in the open.

My problem is I take stuff on the chin for a bit and then I explode. This is not professional if I do this..

Do what I encouraged and assited my staff with, report the issue firstly to you line manager and also HR. There's no horible polotics in the NHS just those who let things happen.

Ton most bullies do it by just staying under the threshold of actually bullying - just like many stay just under the threshold for trolling on here

We all know what they are doing but they dont quite do enough that they cannot deny what they are doing

I do agree soem folk are easier to bully than others and IME most bullies are deeply insecure hence they attack all the time to "protect" themselves

That said there are no easy ways to deal with them but the main ones have been mentioned

It is better to get people on your side and confront either informally or via a formal process but it wont magically make everything better

It is hard to prove it though as it is usually ones person word v another.

i cant understand how a grown up can be bullied.
stand up for yourself.
if you have a grievance, bring it out in the open.

Bullying can happen in so many little ways, not just direct aggression. It can be people making little snide remarks (like the OP's situation), undermining peoples work, making out that they do all the work, even just constantly questioning if someone is correct all the time and making them justify everything they do.

I've seen incredibly confident and competent colleagues slowly whittled down by insecure bullies where you don't realise what they've been doing until it's too late

OP I'd suggest if you have a ward manager and/or ward sister who are approachable then go have a coffee and a quiet word with them. Keep records, have specific examples to provide if requested and if that doesn't work then raise it up.

Edit for additional info: I've bitter experience of receiving this kind of workplace bullying and have also had to step in to help out a colleague when they were receiving it. One thing to be careful of is that I've had someone who was trying to bully me try to turn it round and accuse me of bullying them, that took a while for the managers to unpick before they nailed the bugger

i cant understand how a grown up can be bullied.
stand up for yourself.
if you have a grievance, bring it out in the open.

Wow - super helpful 🙄

It's difficult to just "stand up for yourself" because you have to be professional, and bullies often gather a lot of power in the workplace - they get people "on side" simply because people don't want to be on that person's bad side, they don't want to be a victim themselves. If you stand up to them, you end up painted as the bad guy, unfortunately.

@Ton -Workplace bullying is common enough that when it happened to me I was genuinley suprised at friends and aquaintences that told me of their experience. It is difficult when your superior/line manager starts as you initially accept their authority, a bully then takes advantage of this.

As mentioned above - take notes, at the end of each day, before you go home of what the circumstances were and what was said/done. Then go to HR and report them, remain calm, it will get sorted in the end. The opther option is of course to beat the shit out of them but this may not be in your personailty to do so. Good luck.

As an aside I once worked with this old boy when I was a student, he had been in the army and served as a Batman to a senior officer who was a ****, so everynight when told to draw a bath for the officer, he peed in it. 😀 Revenge can be served warm too.

Junkyard hits nail on head as does the spawnof yorkshire

My problem is I take stuff on the chin for a bit and then I explode. This is not professional if I do this..

Be nice and polite to her and then ask her how she got all the sand in her vagina

whittled down by insecure bullies

surely the person whittled down is the insecure one?

I'm with Ton on this, why is every clash of personalities automatically deemed to be bullying??

To be honest, if someone joined a department I worked in, then took 3 months off sick, I'd probably be a bit annoyed at being put under additional pressure during their absence.

On that person's return, I might be a bit inclined to me pretty annoyed if they were asking questions on things they'd have been up to speed with, had they not gone off for 3 months.

So rightly or wrongly - although perfectly understandably - you're not the most popular person in the department, despite your self-proclaimed affable nature.

So in this situation, as in life, you're gonna have to work that bit harder to win your colleagues over. And whinging, whining and accusing them of bullying isn't going to help that cause.

MTFU, change your attitude and crack on.

surely the person whittled down is the insecure one?

not originally they weren't, or at least not in a work context

that was the purpose of the bullying, to make someone who was more confident and competent at their job less so so the bully didn't look as crap as they actually were

Stand up for yourself and don't let the self serving prick get to you, smile and wave and be painfully nice to said person, bound to wind them up.

There is a difference between a personality clash and bullying.

Personality clash - I have heaps of those in the workplace. Doesn't mean I go out of my way to put those people down, be negative towards them, or undermine their work, even if I don't particularly like them. I deal with them professionally when I have to, and avoid them when it's not necessary to deal with them. There may well be people I work with who feel the same about me, but because they behave sensibly, I am unaware that they don't particularly like me. And so what - you can't please everyone, but in a workplace, you do have to get on with all sorts.

I find the most effective way to deal with this sort of thing is to have it out with the person by calmly confronting them about it.

Often this kind of stuff goes on just below the surface where it is hard to see.

The people doing this may have gotten away with it for years and are not used to being confronted about it.

This can be tricky though. If you are not able to back this up it can backfire.

@littlemisspanda

+1

@ Ton and @ Shibboleth - glad you are not my line manager or working for me either. Well done you, as you have obvioulsy grown up to be a well balanced and considerate individuals.
Bullying is by its very nature insidious and intended to make the recipent feel insecure. If someone has time off due to an actual medical condition/injury that is something they are entitled to and they should not be made to feel that they are letting anyone else down. The failure is the organisations, or in some cases the individuals inabilty to cope.

that was the purpose of the bullying, to make someone who was more confident and competent at their job less so so the bully didn't look as crap as they actually were

Put yourself in his colleagues' shoes panda: he's got a job (presumably the department needed his input) and then went off sick for 3 months leaving a huge hole in the workforce and no doubt putting extra strain on the remaining staff.

So he's proven himself to be unreliable, and he's also admitted to suffering from hypertension, so their might be further reliability issues.

It doesn't sound like they're undermining his work, just showing the fact that their patience is wearing a little thin, and if he'd not spent 3 months sitting at home*, he'd probably be up to speed with procedures by now.

I'm not saying they're right, but there's 2 sides to every situation, and it might help for him to recognise this and work at rebuilding his reputation within the department rather than whining about bullying!

* Right or wrong, this will be the perception of his workmates...

surroundedbyhills, i agree with you that bullying is terrible.
i just dont see how a adult can be bullied, especially at work and moreso in a big set up, where there are unions/hr departments/managers.

bring the dispute out in the open and let the correct peoples sort it out.

@ shibboleth
From the OP:

I didn't plan on taking 3 months off it was a accident, the long recovery was due a fracture being diagnosed asa sprained knee. When iI did come back the proper way is a staggered back into work. They put me on 7 shifts in a row, and I slipped and now have torn cartilage in my knee. Other staff members have regular time off due to sickness.

So he

then went off sick for 3 months

So he's proven himself to be unreliable

Who's going to help you when you get sick then? or Pregnant maybe...(making no assumptions here).

To me, it doesn't sound like bulling, it sounds like someone who's not very nice. You'll find them everywhere, so you might as well deal with it where you are working. Never worked for the public sector, but there are very few employers in the private sector who would tolerate such a lot of time off for a knee problem, so things don't sound too bad to me.

So, if you get sick, through no fault of your own, and have time off work, or dare have a long term medical condition, then you should expect your colleagues to make negative comments and undermine your work?

Glad I work at a place where that doesn't happen.

There is obviously a personality crash there, just avoid the other chap or ask him/her straight out what his problem is with you, it sometimes works.

If you seriously think its bulingly , go to your mnager and explain the situation, saying youhave written notes about what has happened,that ususlaly gets them to do something.

But when i left school at 16 and started industry a few eeks in to my apprenticeship realised bullying didnt stop i school, spoke to an old timer 63 about it it, and he sauiid the imortal words.

"just because you have left school, doesnt mean all the children and bullies got left in the playground".

and oh so true years later.

@ Ton

surroundedbyhills, i agree with you that bullying is terrible.
i just dont see how a adult can be bullied, especially at work and moreso in a big set up, where there are unions/hr departments/managers.

bring the dispute out in the open and let the correct peoples sort it out.

Like at School where kids have friends, teachers, and also parents.

Bullies exist, their motivation may vary but the behavoir and it's effects are varied too.

I used to have a car that broke down a lot and had to spend a lot of time in the garage...

It wasn't the car's fault, but it was freakin unreliable!

Jeez, how do you people get through life???

I get through life by smiling and seeing the best in folk, its called empathy but you may need to google it 😉 I even have it for those with tattoos and those who like to provoke a reaction on the internet

To be honest, if someone joined a department I worked in, then took 3 months off sick, I'd probably be a bit annoyed at being put under additional pressure.

Compassion counts for nowt when you have to do the work of an absent team member for no extra pay. Then when that person returns and is asking questions about stuff he should be an old hand at, it would be human nature to lose patience.

THAT, my friends, is true empathy. Not bad for a self-confessed sociopath... I must be softening up in my old age. :p

Compassion counts for nowt when you have to do the work of an absent team member for no extra pay.

Then when that person returns and is asking questions about stuff he should be an old hand at, it would be human nature to lose patience.

THAT, my friends, is true empathy. Not bad for a self-confessed sociopath... I must be softening up in my old age. :p

Well you are trying I will give you that 😛

but NHS will have minimum staffing ratios so I assume they got cover

Haha, now that's funny! 😀

So, if you get sick, through no fault of your own, and have time off work, or dare have a long term medical condition, then you should expect your colleagues to make negative comments and undermine your work?

Glad I work at a place where that doesn't happen.

3 months off in the first 9? I wouldn't expect to get negative comments, but I wouldn't have a job either. I'd be glad to work somewhere where that doesn't happen, but for many people, that is the reality.

I had it once, done very slyly. I'm no shrinking violet but it was so underhand I couldn't do much about it and left.
Learnt my lesson now, I actually don't think I'm bullyable; I don't give enough of a f. Snide comments would be met with a shrug or at worst maybe a "good job nobody cares what you think" or a "f off".
It's in your power to stop it getting to you. Once bullies see that what they're doing has no effect they'll find someone else to be a **** to.

The thing to remember is that it is a job and a professional one at that. Anywhere where job grade is seen as a factor on who can help you or talk to you is a crap place to work. I would go in with a professional head on and do your job and ask people for the help that is needed. If anyone says anything back then look down at them and remind them that you are trying to be as professional as possible. There are two many people who bring their petty lives into work and bully or make snide comments to people. Just don't accept it and on any counts.

These people love having power and you just have to not let them. For starters it will piss them right off.

Shibboleth - Member

* Right or wrong, this will be the perception of his workmates...

It wouldn't be my perception. But then, I'm not a ****.

It wouldn't be my perception. But then, I'm not a ****.

Rubbish. You're quite clearly and asterisk x 4 if you you don't see that.

If I was working my butt off whilst the new starter was sitting at home watching TV, the majority of people would feel a little miffed, broken leg or no broken leg. It's human nature. Not very good at empathising, are you Northwind?

A long period of absence for a specific illness or injury is not generally frowned upon in most places. We had someone off for 4 months after a car crash, nobody whinged about picking up her work. Ditto with someone else who was diagnosed with MS and had 8 weeks off. An employee is more likely to be seen as "unreliable" if they consistently take a few days here and there, or if there is some kind of pattern to the absence, such as always being right after a bank holiday or something. You cannot brand an employee unreliable for breaking a bone, and if an employer sacked you, it would be unfair dismissal.

If the workload is an issue, managers should be hiring temps/bank staff if possible to cover. Bank staff are pretty readily available in the NHS. If they are making others cover the extra work with no pay, that's bad management IMO and it is likely to lead to resentment of the staff member that's off sick. Maybe that's why OP's colleagues are acting the way they are - possibly management have encouraged it in order to cover for their own failure to manage workloads when an employee is on long term sick.

Employees can however be disciplined for frequent or unexplained absences. If the OP falls into this category, then again, managers/HR should be addressing it, so as to minimise the effect on co-workers. However, I know from previous experience working in the NHS though that they are pretty poor at addressing poor attendance and performance.

Shibboleth - Member

If I was working my butt off whilst the new starter was sitting at home watching TV, the majority of people would feel a little miffed, broken leg or no broken leg. It's human nature. Not very good at empathising, are you Northwind?

In a nutshell, LOL.

If the workload is an issue, managers should be hiring temps/bank staff if possible to cover. Bank staff are pretty readily available in the NHS. If they are making others cover the extra work with no pay, that's bad management IMO and it is likely to lead to resentment of the staff member that's off sick. Maybe that's why OP's colleagues are acting the way they are - possibly management have encouraged it in order to cover for their own failure to manage workloads when an employee is on long term sick.

I'm glad I don't work anywhere near shibboleth. Who seems to think a broken leg is a skive. Management look crap as they couldn't fix cover, as well as failing to give the OP a graded return to work.

I read about bullying when I recognised it going on near to me, along with what I believe was nepotism. And the two often go together, that social psychopath trend line, y'know. It seems the victims are often quiet, competent, good at their jobs sorts of people. The sort who are of value to their employer, but seen as competition by the bully. So any clued-up HR dept. should be red hot in dealing with it. We wish.

It's time HR started earning their money. Does the NHS have an outside helpline, independent of them, to report these things?

We have plenty of bank staff to cover staff who are off sick. Infact the staffing levels are very good for a Nhs ward 12 staff split between 30 patients on a early, 10 on late and 5 on a night shift. The ward could quite easily be run on 8 staff on the early and late. And if anyone rings in its either covered by our own Nhs bank staff or Agency.

Me being off wouldn't of even made a difference, it would have been covered straight away. A fibula break, three torn ligaments and cartilage damage was hardly skiving. I can't transfer patients from bed to chair/toilet etc if I'm at risk of falling due to instability myself.

I came back to work on physio's advice and did 7 shifts in a row and fell due to my knee giving way. I'm not awaiting a operation to tidy up my Articular cartilage and I'm seeing Occupational health on Tuesday.

I now manage to avoid the culprit by requesting to be moved onto our other Orthopaedic ward.

If I was working my butt off whilst the new starter was sitting at home watching TV, the majority of people would feel a little miffed, broken leg or no broken leg. It's human nature. Not very good at empathising, are you Northwind?

To the OP make sure you have someone to talk to and an anger release mechanism outside of work. Speak to somebody more senior as a matter of priority, express your concerns and see what they say - this will give you a better idea of whats going on than some of the MTFU crowd in here.

Does no-one do the bucket of piss over the toilet stall these days?

Works wonders.

Just make sure you wait until the trousers are down. 🙂