That England team just shouts that Farrell will kick everything away and then back the defence to keep Wales out.
Wales game plan for the first 20 minutes. Phillips to wind Farrell up and the "backs" to run up the 10 channel. If fighty Farrell turns up I can see cards being branded about left right and centre.
Wales to kick long and invite the England back three to run at them and risk turnovers on the floor. England to kick to the corners and pressure the welsh lineout which will be missing Ryan Jones. Wales will be wanting to play the game in the england half, England will want to do the same, expect lots of kicking. Wales will try and do what they did to Italy and Scotland which is build a lead through a strong kicking game combined with pressure defence and strong scrum then try to force england to open up and run at them. England will do the same but kick to touch more and pressure the lineout rather than scrum.
In summary expect lots of kicking
Unless of course England try to run about lots like they did agaisnt Italy but I doubt they will be that daft twice.
I f I were wales, I'd be trying to get North and Cuthbert running at Ashton and Brown. Plenty of blindside plays too.
I can't see England winning without scoring a try*
*subject to the scrum and breakdown being ref'd correctly 👿
They tried that first half v ireland and look what happend. They need field position first. Boot it long, good kick chase and then bosh bosh bosh, its the welsh way you know!!
*subject to the scrum and breakdown being ref'd correctly
if that happens England could be screwed... very unlikely though.
Jenkins capt!
thta was "announced" on gwlad on monday! whats the res of the team?
Wales: Leigh Halfpenny (Blues); Alex Cuthbert (Blues), Jonathan Davies (Scarlets), Jamie Roberts (Blues), George North (Scarlets); Dan Biggar (Ospreys), Mike Phillips (Bayonne); Gethin Jenkins (capt, Toulon), Richard Hibbard (Ospreys), Adam Jones (Ospreys), Alun Wyn Jones (Ospreys) Ian Evans (Ospreys), Sam Warburton (Blues), Justin Tipuric (Ospreys), Toby Faletau (Dragons).
Replacements: Ken Owens (Scarlets), Paul James (Bath), Scott Andrews (Blues), Andrew Coombs (Dragons), Aaron Shingler (Scarlets), Lloyd Williams (Blues), James Hook Perpignan), Scott Williams (Scarlets)
Edit: Beaten to it
Wales: Leigh Halfpenny (Blues); Alex Cuthbert (Blues), Jonathan Davies (Scarlets), Jamie Roberts (Blues), George North (Scarlets); Dan Biggar (Ospreys), Mike Phillips (Bayonne); Gethin Jenkins (capt, Toulon), Richard Hibbard (Ospreys), Adam Jones (Ospreys), Alun Wyn Jones (Ospreys) Ian Evans (Ospreys), Sam Warburton (Blues), Justin Tipuric (Ospreys), Toby Faletau (Dragons).
Replacements: Ken Owens (Scarlets), Paul James (Bath), Scott Andrews (Blues), Andrew Coombs (Dragons), Aaron Shingler (Scarlets), Lloyd Williams (Blues), James Hook Perpignan), Scott Williams (Scarlets).
Wales backrow has 3 players who play like 7's whilst englands has 3 that play like 6's. Hopefully it'll be a good game and the right team will win!!
Ireland:
R Kearney, C Gilroy, B O'Driscoll, L Marshall, K Earls, J Sexton, C Murray; C Healy, R Best, M Ross, M McCarthy, D Ryan, P O'Mahony, S O'Brien, J Heaslip.
Replacement: S Cronin, D Kilcoyne, S Archer, D Toner, I Henderson, P Marshall, P Jackson L Fitzgerald.
Scotland:
Backs: Stuart Hogg (Glasgow Warriors), Sean Maitland (Glasgow Warriors), Sean Lamont (Glasgow Warriors), Matt Scott (Edinburgh Rugby), Tim Visser (Edinburgh Rugby), Duncan Weir (Glasgow Warriors), Greig Laidlaw (Edinburgh Rugby) vice-captain, Forwards: Ryan Grant (Glasgow Warriors) vice-captain, Ross Ford (Edinburgh Rugby), Euan Murray (Worcester Warriors), Grant Gilchrist (Edinburgh Rugby) Jim Hamilton (Gloucester), Alasdair Strokosch (Perpignan), Kelly Brown (Saracens) captain, Johnnie Beattie (Montpellier).
Replacements: Dougie Hall (Glasgow Warriors), Moray Low (Glasgow Warriors), Geoff Cross (Edinburgh Rugby), Alastair Kellock (Glasgow Warriors), Ryan Wilson (Glasgow Warriors), Henry Pyrgos (Glasgow Warriors), Ruaridh Jackson (Glasgow Warriors), Max Evans (Castres).
France:
Huget; Clerc, Bastareaud, Fofana, Medard; Michalak, Parra; Domingo, Kayser, Mas, Vahaamahina, Maestri, Claassen, Dusautoir (capt), Picamoles.
Replacements: Guirado, Debaty, Ducalcon, Samson, Nyanga, Machenaud, Trinh-Duc, Fritz or Fickou.
Don't forget Wales 16th Man on the pitch - Mr Walsh. Expect skulduggery in the scrum which Wales will hope leads to thier decision via Mr walsh bias, and therefore penalties, and running at the England wingers.
There could be a nasty 1/2p / Tuilagi clash at some point also, bravery vs brawn...
My view - england to deny Wales the ball and carry through the forwards, Tuilagi and Barrit, Farrell to kick the penalties is the strategy.
Don't forget Wales 16th Man on the pitch - Mr Walsh. Expect skulduggery in the scrum which Wales will hope leads to thier decision via Mr walsh bias
you go girl, get your excuses in early! Why would Wales resort to dodgy scrumaging, their scrum is excellent
Wales backrow has 3 players who play like 7's whilst englands has 3 that play like 6's.
Interested to know how you come to this conclusion, and What you think's "like a 6" or 7.
Granted Wales might have two player who usually play 7 on the pitch, and Faletau could do that job ok too, but he plays very like an 8 for me. More carries than any other Welsh player, sometimes three times as many. That might not define an 8, but it's vastly different to how the other two play.
And for England, Robshaw's playing exactly how a 7 needs to do. First to the breakdown. 16 tackles in his last game, that's as many as any Welsh player all tournament. (Tipuric 16, vs Italy too.). Ok Wood is a 6 playing at 8, but Croft's a bit of a freak in how he plays and certainly not a traditional BS flanker.
should be a good battle.
and
Ireland fly-half Jonathan Sexton has been ruled out of his side's Six Nations clash with Italy on Rome on Saturday - just a couple of hours after he was named in the starting line-up.
Jackson in. Madigan on bench.
Well Tips and warbs are 7's very much in the fetcher roles, Faletau replaced warbs in this role for the third place play off at the world cup and did very well. He also tends to play up in the defensive line like a flanker rather than dropping back to field kicks as the likes of Parisse or Morgan do. For England Wood is a six playing 8, croft is a six who seagulls around on the wing (very good in the lineout mind) and The Lions Capt elect is a 6 playing 7 and when playing with Wood at 8 does a lot more carrying and does the dropping back to field kicks bit. None of the England backrow are strong on the ground, Cole is England best breakdown pilferer.
A_A, you did read Hibbard's comments on "playing" the ref last weekend, so it's perfectly valid for us whiteys to be nervous about refs and the scrummage 😉 and Walsh hates the English!!!
Surprised about warburton as he was excellent last time out
Hibbards comments where he said they waited for the ref and didnt try to be first to the hit ie cheat?
As an ex-hooker myself, I got exactly what he was saying!!
One day I hope to be at Cardiff for the WvE just to hear Hen Wlad Fy Nhadau in all it's glory. I would pretend to be Welsh at that point albeit in John Redwood style 😉 (my granny was welsh!) Best anthem of the lot, especially at Cardiff. If only the Scots could find something better than the endless dirge of FoS!!!
As an ex-hooker myself, I got exactly what he was saying!!
Can you point me to a link re his comments?
all I can find is this from the scotsmen.
FOR Wales forwards coach Robin McBryde, the secret to success in the scrum is to forget about trying to beat your opponents to the first hit.“It’s about not giving the referee the opportunity to penalise you, especially early in the game,” said the 37-times capped Welsh hooker.
“The ‘early engagement’ has become a big thing for officials, so we have taken the opinion that we have to be squeaky clean there to give us as much opportunity as possible.
“We’re confident in our ability to scrummage so there’s no reason for us to go early but it does mean sometimes you lose the ‘hit’ and we’ve been quite happy to do that on occasion rather than err the other way.
“It’s a fine line but we’re not going to go early now because of the way it’s refereed. We just rely on our ability to take the hit, regather ourselves and stand firm. The scrum should be stable. It shouldn’t be moving. So that’s the approach we’ve taken and, in the last few games in particular, it has paid off.”
Welsh 30-year-old loosehead Paul James is not the most lauded prop in the tournament, but his ability, along with hooker Richard Hibbard, to outfox Euan Murray was central to nullifying Scotland’s ability to use the scrum as the attacking platform they had expected.
“You just have to be smart with the scrum,” James said. “At the start Scotland went a bit early, and we knew we just had to hold our discipline and not be drawn in to trying to beat them to the hit, and it paid off. There were a couple of 50/50 calls that went against us, which we felt were harsh, but you have to take those because the ref’s not going to get it right every time.”
Having moved to a new set of referee calls, “Crouch, Touch, Pause and Engage”, to aid safety in the scrums, and last year shortened that to “Crouch, Touch and Set”, on advice from players, the IRB will trial another alteration in the upcoming Pacific Nations Cup. It adds the requirement for props to bind onto their opposite numbers at the “touch” stage, before the scrum comes together.
James added: “I think the new call [crouch, touch and set] is better than the old ‘pause and engage’, because it gives you time to get set and solid before engaging and, whatever change they make now, you still have to go with the ref.
“Against Scotland, he [referee Craig Joubert] came in and warned both teams before the game, so we knew he was watching for early engagements.
“And we had watched Scotland in the championship and saw them going early. The scrum is all about the timing and the speed, and discipline, but it’s not for me to say how Scotland fix it – that’s for them to work on.”
why would wales have cheated they had the scottish scrum screwed over all day long... bigger test ve England to come and Gethin for James weakens the scrum somewhat
[i]Even more dubious than Ashton, Freddie M keeps his place for France![/i]
Do you think there's an element of pure stubborn-ness in the selections? Like: "Everyone says I should change this, so I won't!"
Can't bloody understand it otherwise!
I will have a look. BTW, this wasn't a dig at you, Hibbard or the welsh team. It made me smile to read it (need to find link) as all hookers work out how to play the ref. I was once described to my parents as a "total crook" by one county ref but it took him 81 minutes to work me out!!!
All he was saying is that they deliberately practiced soft hits to make th Scots look guilty of early sets and Joubert swallowed it. It was in one of th Sunday papers. And then John Beattie was moaning about it on BBC website later.
I wasnt bothered by your comments just Kryton getting his excuses in early when Wales on paper have the stronger scrum.
I played 7 and was described as being offside all game by a GCSE PE assessor. He saw this as a bad thing even though I was pinged!
All he was saying is that they deliberately practiced soft hits to make th Scots look guilty of early sets and Joubert swallowed it.
I dont think thats what he said I think he said they conceded the hit and then went from there. its what they did v italy too
A number 7 not offside and not infringing in the loose doesn't exist, surely? 😉 Well perhaps in the U11 4XV
IMHO, Robshaw has put all the "not a proper 7" nonsense firmly to bed.
I wasnt bothered by your comments just Kryton getting his excuses in early when Wales on paper have the stronger scrum.
With Youngs and Marler in, I think it's on more than paper.
anagallis_arvensis - Member
I wasnt bothered by your comments just Kryton getting his excuses in early when Wales on paper have the stronger scrum.
Its not an excuse, I expect wales to sneak this game unfortunately. But I've played too and the comments above about playing the ref are a part of the game now matter how good you are. If Wales can gain a penalty by using Walsh in the set pieces whilst in Englands half 1/2p will slot them over.
I played o/s centre once with a broken coccix because the ref didn't believe me as he had a hatred for our team. I paid him back by scoring my first try of the season. Mind you I had to be lifted off the in goal area by the boys. Nevertheless, guess where the opposing 10 kicked all the balls, and him and the scrum half were chatting in his ear all game. Playing the ref... ...we lost!
When I moved to Hampshire having been a borders 9. I was playing in my usual style. After being punched thessecond time by my opposite number. The ref said "I don't know what you're doing but if you do it again I'll penalise you."
To be fair I was raking his ankle bone just as he went to put in.
wrecker - Member
IMHO, Robshaw has put all the "not a proper 7" nonsense firmly to bed.
Exactly my point too.
I wasn't a fan before this season. Now that I've watched him closely, I admit I was wrong. I was probablly reading too much media guff.
He might carry the ball more than other sevens, but that's an additional bonus on top of everything else he does. His workrate and tackling are absolutely top class. He is every where that the ball is. He's a proper 7, and starting to remind me a bit of Peter Winterbottom.
7's very much in the fetcher roles
What do you mean by this "fetcher role" definition? IMO, it might be a red herring. You obviouslly know about playing 7 from an offside position. Is that not to be first one there in defence?
IMO, first one there makes the tackle. Second one secures the ball.
Robshaw's first more often than not. Like a true 7.
Incidentally, this is one of the reason's I reckon Warburton will be a good 6. Tipuric there first to make the tackle, Warburton next to win the ball. That's one of his strengths when he's second man. As long as he's not too fragile.
Ioum to my mind you've got the 6 and 7 roles the wrong way round. For wales last season Lydiate chopped them down and Warburton went in to jackle the ball. For me a fetcher is the guy who does the arse up head down digging for the ball. Dank Hole is very good at this for England. Robshaw doesnt do this for England but thats due to different tic taks. Wales chop and jackle to try and win turnovers/pens. England tackle higher and drive players back and then counter ruck ( apart from when Dank Hole gets a go). So Robshaw may be good at that role we dont really know. Seems a good player, nice bloke and good captain for england but imo a Lions captain should be a bit more inspirational on the pitch like Johnson or Bod. Robshaw is good and very consistent but doesnt set the world alight. Not sure who that player is though tbh.
I do get what you mean about the jackel. An expert in skulldugery a la Neil Back and Martyn Williams. It's true that Robshaw isn't one of these types (to be fair, he is 6ft 2 and nearly 18 stone).
I think he offers more than the traditional 7. He gains yards, tackles like a machine, catches high balls, passes well and jumps in the line out. At times, he has held the team up by the bootstraps. I don't know if he is the best man for the Lions capt, but I think he's very inspirational. 2 MOM awards in a row, and consistently englands best player. He's like my gav 😀
Oh No, Ashton picked. oh sh1t! Well done, victory to Wales. just please dont be quite so sanctimonious when you win this time please!
Fair enough aa, that system did seem to work great for wales last year.
Lydiate tackles, Warburton jackals. I guess both sides play to the strengths of their own players, and as long as the balance of skills is there, it can work anyway. Incidentally, your explanation raises my opinion of Lydiate. He's an excellent tackler, but I always felt he lacked that little bit extra as a 6 compared to someone like Ferris. It seems he was playing his role in his team's system to perfection.
😉 But IMO, it's Wales that are playing them the [s]wrong[/s] unconventional way around, not england. First one tackle, second win ball. And seven should be first if he's any good. 😉 (agrees to disagree and leave this point alone?)
Anyway, it all goes out the window on consecutive plays. You're never first to two in a row from the bottom of a breakdown, assuming the rucking's a fairly decent pace, so a bit of balance to the skillset helps any back-rower. And Ireland spoil any explanation by trying to tackle without ever putting players on the floor.
Agree about Cole. Gethin's got a bit of it too. There's a few other players with that skill not playing flanker too, BOD's been at it for years.
And about the captaincy. At the moment,for me, the most certain starters don't match the most likely captains. My outside pick, [s]assuming[/s] hoping he'll make the team at 6 or 8, would be SOB. I reckon he does have that little bit extra going forwards and in defence.
Can't agree that Cole is a good turnover player....yes he does it, as does Hartley a fair bit....however both of them are penalty magnets at the breakdown. Something that Warbs, Robshaw et al manage to avoid.
Physics mean that a squat dwarf is always going to be better at a game involving 50% of play onto a ball on the ground.He can squirrel into tight places better and get to ball on the ground faster.If he can grow a good engine and has a good rugby brain, he is on a winner. That is why Back was so good. I rate Warburton as better than Robshaw in the position as his rugby brain is a bit sharper. I played 1xv at London Scottish and was at 6"3" considered too tall for 7 for the game Ally McHarg wanted. And at 16 stone too light for 6.....Mind you I was only 20,nothing a couple of years drinking Guinness because London beer was so grim couldn't cure 😀
I have a lot of sympathy for Robshaw, he is a 6 who wants to play for his country, who wouldn't?
On the topic of Wales and turnovers it seems that in the last year or so it has mainly been Gethin and J. Davies getting the turnovers (I don't know the stats but this is how it appears).
I am a big fan of Davies and he has improved a lot as an international since he came on the scene. At the start the thought of him kicking or running out the line at weird times must have given Edwards nightmares! I would love for him to make some nice line breaks against England like his early Scarlets form that got him noticed in the first place 😀
I hate to be negative but I can see England playing 9 man rugby to great effect at the weekend- playing the territory game to get in the Wales half and forcing penalty upon penalty. Wales have the players to beat England at their own game but appear to be much more determined to go for tries and just pick up penalties as a consolation rather than as match winning points... Maybe I am seeing this in a funny way 😕
Perhaps in RWC form, warbs [i]maybe[/i] had the upper hand but he hasn't been in that form in a long time and robshaw has been far superior for quite a while.
He's a good a 7 as any lions contender. The fact that he may also be as good at 6 is neither here nor there.
Both teams will kick the leather off the ball. Wales will only go wide in the oppos 22. First half v ireland apart they have been solid in defence and taken chances well. As ever though I fear a lineout collapse is always just around the corner!
He gains yards, tackles like a machine, catches high balls, passes well and jumps in the line out
sounds like the perfect 6 to me, most good sixes can cover 7 very well. Hill was a great 7 but a better 6.
Traditional 6 or 7 or 8 in the modern game really gone as the with prop forward who turned up to trundle from set piece to set piece......
croft could be the man to turn the match for england BUT fitness and match ready may not be there.
Result likely to be settled on pens
I thought that Croft was looking off the pace towards the end against Italy and he only played for 20 odd minutes. I guess that the coaches are pretty sure that he's fit though.
I agree with vondally that pens will most likely decide the game which would be a real shame. I feel England have the upper hand here.
Croft is a worrying inclusion from an English point of view. There must be a game plan but some of the selections appear a little iffy (no-one mention Ashton again 😀 )
Croft when fit is absolutely superb. I'm interested to see how bigger Croft plays for a full (weill, until Haskell comes on) 80. If nothing else, it's amazing to see him back after an injury as bad as he's had!
How much has Croft played since coming back? Cant say I've ever been that impressed with him.
This is all irrelevant as I know Ashton is going to win the Grand Slam with one of his swallow dives with 1 min to go. I've seen it in my tea leaves. On the plus side we need a new telly anyway and window repairmen always need work!!!
Not a lot, maybe a couple of games? I did read that he's a little concerned going into contact so put back on the stone he lost after the accident, plus another one... Gym monkeys rock!
Ashton looses the game by petulantly throwing the ball at Norths head, forgetting he's actually still in play and watches north run 70 yards to score. At which point he'll blame the ref.
