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So if it was 76m would you pull in?
If they ever get round to bringing retesting in I'll be a millionaire.
What really gets my goat in medium motorway traffic is the drivers who think 'better jump into the fast lane now otherwise I'll be one carplace slower in getting to my destination'. So they shoe-horn their car into your safety space causing you to brake. You know they are going to do it as you've seen their poisturing/positioning upto this point through traffic but its still annoying watching them fling their car sideways quickly.
[i]thats why i said 'anything OVER 75mtrs' [/i]
It was all going so well.
I was enjoying the gentle goading and mickey-taking, but to let this thread denegrate into mindless pedantry is just not on!
yep 76mtrs would be clear road. in the same manner as 70mph is within the speed limit whereas 71mph is braking the speed limit.
trolling zoo fighter - what is a clear road then?
Are you saying that if you can see another car on the inside lane regardless of how far ahead that may be then you will stay on the middle lane?
Possibly. Entirely depends on the context.
If I was obviously gaining on that car and the road behind me was clear then yeah, I would probably just stay out.
If there were cars behind me then I'd pull in if I thought I'd be in the inside lane for more than say roughly 20 seconds.
I definitely wouldn't pull in if I'd only be in the left hand lane for a "couple of seconds".
The Highway Code clearly states that in a car travelling at 70mph you should keep a distance of at least 75mtrs between your self and the vehicle in front.
Does it? That seems a little odd since the official stopping distance at 70mph is 96 metres.
Sure you don't want to go for those lessons? 😉
jim the saint - a clear road is a road with no cars on it. obvious really.
funniest- motorway down from Scotland, Sunday morning. 2 lanes closed two miles ahead so EVERYONE sits in one long queue for TWO MILES. Yes, filter upto the last 400m's say but why create the mother of all traffic jams?
mastiles_fanylion- Im thinking of buying the previous shape TT (1.8T) circa 2003 in dark grey. Not as flashy as yours but cheapy 😀
hora - let them do that. i really quite enjoy being able to go right to the front of that queue, past all the merge in turn signs, and watch the frustration building on the muppet drivers's faces.
in the same manner as 70mph is within the speed limit whereas 71mph is braking the speed limit.
One being safe and the other not?
What really annoys me is those idiots that pass me at speed in the outside lane, cut in like they'd like to take my front bumper off, pop briefly into the inside lane, then hop right back to the outside lane again.....
Its like they are trying to make a point or something.....
😉
As an aside - on recent frequent trips to Bristol and back I have noticed a correlation between (lack of) road manners / common sense and the presence of a 'Baby on Board' sign in the back - seems the sign is meant to be seen by other road users as another sort of indicator / special pass allowing the owner to move in and out of lanes / speed up and down at will and without warning.....
I think all of this argument stems from what one person (or group thereof) considers a clear road and another thinks is a sensible amount of space to warrant pulling in.
I would wager that the difference between the two won't be that marked really.
I can certainly understand what Graham S is saying - it is pointless swerving in and out of the inside lane at every possible opportunity. At the same time, if I could see a car half a mile up the road and clearly it was travelling at a sensible speed, I would pull back in and wait until I was right behind it before pulling back out to overtake.
Not as flashy as yours but cheap
Nice - I still like the look of the old shape ones. But then again, they match my perm and false eyelashes.
"The Highway Code clearly states that in a car travelling at 70mph you should keep a distance of at least 75mtrs between your self and the vehicle in front."Does it? That seems a little odd since the official stopping distance at 70mph is 96 metres.
It actually suggests you should leave at least 62.5856m at 70mph 😉
Of course in reality those HC stopping distances are based on 2/3g deceleration under braking, and pretty much any modern car should be able to do better than that.
trolling zoo fighter - i presume you're a driving instructor. do a lot of your students fail due to undue hesitancy? do you really think the highway code defines a road as being clear when there are no cars on it at all?
Jim The Saint - Correct - none have failed on that. None have ever had a fault on a dual carriageway either.
Clear road - not a term I would ever use.
highway code states 75mtrs braking distance and suggests a thinking distance of 21mtrs. distance chevrons painted on motorways are painted at 75mtrs apart.
and your point is what?
distance chevrons painted on motorways are painted at 75mtrs apart.
Actually, no they're not. I'm not really sure why you think the braking distance is particularly important in terms of the gap you should leave either (compared to the thinking distance).
I think all of this argument stems from what one person (or group thereof) considers a clear road and another thinks is a sensible amount of space to warrant pulling in.
Quite possibly. How about expressing it in time instead? What is the minimum amount of time you'd bother pulling in for? I rarely bother pulling in if I'll be in for less than 20 seconds (unless of course some **** is driving up my exhaust).
I would pull back in and wait until I was right behind it before pulling back out to overtake.
But then you are too close surely?
It actually suggests you should leave at least 62.5856m at 70mph
Huh?
Official typical stopping distance says 96 metres or 315 feet here:
And Rule 126 says "The safe rule is never to get closer than the overall stopping distance (see Typical Stopping Distances)"
And Rule 126 says "The safe rule is never to get closer than the overall stopping distance (see Typical Stopping Distances)"
Is that all it says? 😉
my last comment was aimed at grahams.
what i was trying to illustrate is that the highways agency seem to suggest that 75mtrs is a safe distance to have between cars travelling at 70mph. so you could also surmise that a distance between cars in the middle lane and approaching cars in the left hand lane far exceeding a distance of 75mtrs could be seen as contravening the highway codes suggestion that you should occupy the left hand lane when the road is clear.
What is the minimum amount of time you'd bother pulling in for?
I don't think I could answer that - I think the decision changes constantly dependant on road conditions, overall traffic flow and speed, awareness of what other road users are doing around me.
Totally agree with Hora's comments on clowns pulling into the safe space I leave - especially when the traffic is slowing due to congestion and they are swerving from lane to lane to attempt to stay in the one magical lane that *isn't* congested.
what i was trying to illustrate is that the highways agency seem to suggest that 75mtrs is a safe distance to have between cars travelling at 70mph.
Actually, no they don't particularly.
a distance between cars in the middle lane and approaching cars in the left hand lane far exceeding a distance of 75mtrs
Define "far". More than 1m? More than 10m? Enough that this strange 75m figure which seems to be your mantra is basically irrelevant?
Is that all it says?
[url= http://www.wolframalpha.com/input/?i=2+seconds+at+70mph ]Ahhh..[/url] I was wondering how you came up with such a precise figure.
jim the saint: I agree that 75m is an arbitrary and pretty generous stopping distance for cars which are travelling along in the same lane at the same speed.
But you can't just decree that as the blanket safe distance to pull in at, without first considering the relative speeds of the vehicles.
I was wondering how you came up with such a precise figure.
The silly precision was intended as a hint!
Regarding stopping distances, there's fair chance that in an 'inicident' of some kind on a motorway the objects in front of you won't stop dead in which case you'll have a damn site more than 75 metres to haul out the anchors **. Having said that it's impossible to legislate for the great and interesting variety the world offers (though the current govt would like to think otherwise) so I'm all for guidelines such as stopping distances - also because they stop traffic bunching so much which is probably (but I don't know this) one of the main sources of 'sheer weight of traffic' hold ups on the motorways.
** Of course something could come off a bridge, a foreign truck might pull out when you're in his blind spot, or stuff could fly over the central res in which case even mr cautious might have a lot less than 75 metres to play with.
So you can all screw your precise figures and just apply basic guidelines and [b]common sense [/b]and there in lies the flaw in my argument....
I'm a lorry driver and they really pi$$ me off. I can only do 56mph it's shocking the amount of people who do less than that in the middle lane...
...and don't get me started on the idiots that enter the motorway at 45mph aaaahhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhh...................
agreed. Stopping distances are completely irrelevant to some nobber in the middle lane when they shouldn't be in it. Agreed that inning and outing of the inside lane when the road has a number of vehicles is not always best. Also agreed that one person's clear road is not always the same as another person's - people have good driving days people have bad, yes people may get annoyed by others but on the assumption the annoyee doesn't make a habit of it it's not the main concern. The issue here is the dumbass who doesn't even consider the inside lane as an option and there are plenty of 'em, GrahamS surely even you'd agree these people should not really be allowed in the driver's seat of a car.
neilsonwheels attach a snow plough and do us all a favour 🙂
Why would someone tailgate you in the middle lane, would they not go out to the overtaking lane?
I think we have an answer!
Ahhhh "neils-on-wheels", for some reason I read that as "Neilson Wheels".
Anyway, yes, folk dawdling along in the middle lane at 50mph when the inside is completely clear are the real problem cases and are probably the muppets that most people imagine as "middle lane hoggers" and they make a strong case for periodical re-testing!
Incidentally, why are you limited to 56mph neils?
(Edit: dur.. Presumably you are not in the UK?)
I'll stay in the middle lane if I am going faster than inside lane and slightly slower than the outside lane.
Think is nobody will let ppl out to overtake lorries so they stay in the middle lane.
I love driving and overtaking is a peace of cake (In the right car too)then I get back into the inside lane again so I don't hold anyone up.
I find it funny when lorries hog the middle lane to overtake each other 60 Vs 62mph...
If you get angry on the road or can't overtake-learn or get off the road and relax.
He probably is - the nominal limit might be 60, but they all have limiters which stop them going over 56.Incidentally, why are you limited to 56mph neils?(Edit: dur.. Presumably you are not in the UK?)
I find it funny when lorries hog the middle lane to overtake each other 60 Vs 62mph...
Now there's a point - even worse than the middle lane hoggers are the jousting lorries on motorways / dcs with only 2 lanes.
4 pages already on this fascinating topic. I see Kerry Katona is too fat according to the daily mail.
Depends what you call middle lane hogging, if it's like GrahamS does and stay in the middle to pass constant streams of lorries, caravans, old farts and VW campers then that's fine, legal and within the highway code. If you mean like the OP example someone sitting in the middle lane in a trance when inside if empty then they tards but easy enough to pass them on the outside so no stress. The worst ones are the ones who sit in the middle moving the same speed or slower the the inside traffic.
More annoying than middle lane hoggers:
People who do 30/40 down the sliproad and then pull onto motorway at said speed and then accelerate as slooooowly as possible.
People who leave it till the very last second to go from lane 2 or 3 to sliproad to leave the motorway, slotting into gaps that aren't there in the first place and then anchoring on because they were going way too fast to start with. Especially when they cut up an artic!
Incidentally, why are you limited to 56mph neils?
All lorries are limited to 56 or there abouts. Most of the supermarket wagons are down to 52 to "save the planet" ect... And I am in the uk.
Now there's a point - even worse than the middle lane hoggers are the jousting lorries on motorways / dcs with only 2 lanes.
This is a real pain in the ass for all wagon drivers. Some, myself included will drop back a touch to let the overtaking lorry go past especially if it is only going 0.5 of a mile an hour faster. Other driver are quite happy to sit there and snarl up the motorway.
There are a lot of HGV drivers out there that would happily plough through other road users if it wasn't illegal.
Going waaaaaay back to the original post - there's hardly any three lane sections of motorway in Scotland. The southern half of the M74 from near Abington down to the border and the M8 from the east end of Glasgow out past the airport. There's a few miles on the M77 as well but I can't think of any more. So we're maybe not as bad as middle lane hogging because we're not used to having the option!
OK OK, I own up it's me! I love being in the middle lane. Leave me alone, have you nowt better to moan about. There's a war on you know.
There are a lot of HGV drivers out there that would happily plough through other road users if it wasn't illegal.
When they're not murdering prostitutes? 😉
Thought I'd try some illustrative figures.
If:
[list][*]like me you only bother pulling in if you'll be in the inside lane for more than about 20 seconds[/*]
[*]the next vehicle on the inside lane is going 20mph slower than you (e.g. an HGV)[/*]
[*]we're sticking with the 75 metre stopping distance [/*]
[/list]
then that vehicle would have to be [url= http://www.wolframalpha.com/input/?i=%28%2820+seconds+at+20mph%29+in+metres%29+%2B+75+metres ]over 250 metres away[/url] by the time you [u]complete[/u] your pulling in manoeuvre, to make it worth it.
I find it funny when lorries hog the middle lane to overtake each other 60 Vs 62mph...
Funny? For me that's the most infuriating of it all and IMV what causes the majority of non-accident/incident related congestion on UK motorways. Serious consideration should be brought to restricting HGV's from overtaking, especially at peak times, as they do on the continent.
And I agree, if you're not overtaking, get the **** over, there's no reason not to...
And I agree, if you're not overtaking, get the **** over, there's no reason not to...
I think everyone agrees on that. The rub comes in deciding what constitutes overtaking.