[Closed] Why our food is making us fat

+1 FeeFoo, possibly the most educational post in the whole thread.

Because it's harmful to health and addictive much like other highly taxed substances.

This would cause it to be used less in foods in place of less harmful ingredients and put a sense of balance into paying for the effect of it's mass consumption.

I prefer to allow people to make their own lifestyle decisions

How's that working out so far?

So you think we should take the tax off alcohol and cigarettes?

I prefer to allow people to make their own lifestyle decisions

That's working really well isn't it, what with the looming obesity/diabetes crisis in the western world.

+1 FeeFoo, possibly the most educational post in the whole thread.

Not really - why is it that people who profess to have no interest in diets/healthy eating keep cropping up in these threads to offer their 'wisdom'?

What I see more and more is middle-aged knobs moaning about not being "beautiful" any more.

Why the hostility? Bit unhappy are we?

Not really - why is it that people who profess to have no interest in diets/healthy eating keep cropping up in these threads to offer their 'wisdom'?

I think one of the main problems is knowing what is actually a 'healthy' diet.. theres a mass of contradictory information that is confounded by what are apparently healthy foods. From reading this thread you could come to the conclusion that most foods arent actually that good for you and now im not even sure what i should eat that is 'healthy'. Im not overweight but im sure my diet could benefit from a slight shake up to take some of my bad habits away.. the problem i find is knowing what to replace the things you thought were ok to eat with? I havent really read that much into it but there seem alot of followers on here of the idave diet.. Is the idave diet just for people who want to loose weight or is it more of a permanent dietary change??

-1 Fee Foo..then again i am not a fatty 😉

Is the idave diet just for people who want to loose weight or is it more of a permanent dietary change??

Not really sure how it works ( I have an idea though) but if you're a chubster you'll become less of a chubster by quitting the sugars, pastas and chips etc. Yet it will get you down to and maintain a 12-15% (or in the region of) level of body fat.

So what if your not a fatty and not bothered about loosing weight but are pretty active (mtbing and surfing.. plus an active job)??

Worth noting that even if you're a healthy weight it's worth avoiding eating pro-inflammatory foods such as grains and sugar.

Really abusing those things causes big issues, eating a moderate amount of them still isn't great for overall health.

Cloudnine: If you're lifestyle requires lots of easily accessible energy from your diet then still eat carbs. Just try to make it around your activity and from clean sources, eg white rice, and potatoes, etc.

So what if your not a fatty and not bothered about loosing weight but are pretty active (mtbing and surfing.. plus an active job)??

Even that's changing Don Simon. They have a clear need for large amounts of carbs through simple sources such as gels, but it's worth checking out [url= http://twitter.com/teamskychef ]the Team Sky Chef [/url] to see what "rubbish" a top cycling team eats.

hmanchester - thanks for the link to Chris Kressler and shall read that another time. Although he's not actually a doctor, a cursory scan showed some interesting topics.

see what "rubbish" a top cycling team eats.

True.. Just read a ton of online articles about diets and how apparently bad a high carb, suguar diet is that i should maybe change a few things but couldnt actually find what i wanted.

As cinnamongirl has done, check out [url= http://chriskresser.com/perfecthealth ]Chris Kresser [/url]

As a book [url= http://www.amazon.co.uk/gp/aw/d/0982565844 ]The Paleo Solution [/url]by Robb Wolf is excellent as is [url= http://www.amazon.co.uk/gp/aw/d/1609611543 ]Wheat Belly[/url]

Also worth checking out Mr Wolf's [url= http://robbwolf.com/podcast/ ]Podcast [/url], loads on there and worth starting from the beginning.

Thanks!

Y'know,

I'm really confused about this 'carbs are bad' thing.

I'm 40, 5'10" and about 11 stone. I generally buy 30" waist jeans. For all the various criticisms that could be levelled at me, "fat" isn't one of them.

I eat what I like with little (visible) consequence, but my diet is very carb-heavy and light on protein. I'm vegetarian, can't eat cheese, and eat mostly dishes based around pasta, noodles, rice, potatoes and other veg, and suchlike. I get protein from Quorn and suchlike and not much else, and can go days without eating anything protein-rich at all. Pretty much the polar opposite of the Atkins style diets.

I'm intermittently active. I ride, walk, run, climb etc, sometimes every day and sometimes not for weeks. I have a largely desk-based job. I'm not tremendously fit, but I'm not wholly unfit either. I feel like I have a 'fast' metabolism, like things run quickly for me; my natural walking pace is much faster than most, for example.

Most things I'm reading here are telling me this is all massively 'wrong' but, I seem to be doing ok. Yet anecdotally, I seem to contradict most of the advice given out here.

What gives? Am I going to die?

your diet just isn't very fashionable Cougar.. and from what I've read here.. that's all that matters

yunki +1

Junkyard - Member
oh ok I will join in

Breakfast - nowt

Not having breakfast is possibly the biggest dietary fail around.

Not really - why is it that people who profess to have no interest in diets/healthy eating keep cropping up in these threads to offer their 'wisdom'?

I read lots of stuff on here. I do find it interesting that people are so weight/food obsessed.

Why the hostility? Bit unhappy are we?

I'm happier now (mid-40s) than I've ever been.
**stuffs down doughnut to suppress the misery**

How/what you eat isn't just about controlling your weight. It's also about minimising the risks of avoidable future illnesses such as heart disease and diabetes

http://www.bbc.co.uk/programmes/b01jxzv8

A link and reminder for the program, on tonight 9.00pm BBC2, which the thread's original article is based on: [i]The Men Who Made Us Fat[/i] for anybody interested.
For those not interested, please don't take offence. 😉

Cougar +1. Very similar to me (although I eat cheese). Very high carb diet also which goes against "conventional" wisdom.

I do find it interesting that people are so weight/food obsessed.

I know, ridiculous isn't it. It's not as if what we eat has an impact on our everyday lives and future health.

I wasn't going to return to this thread after yesterday afternoon.

But I'd just like to thank, Miketually, Phil.w, loum, Pedalhead, hmanchester and a few others for keeping the thread mostly on track with useful info and links.

I'll have to iplayer tonights program as I do not have TV.

Thank you.
😀

Cougar, I don't think anyone is saying [i]Carbs are bad m'kay[/i].
My interpretation is that excess added sugar/HFCS in processed food is of no nutritional value.
On this "lifestyle* diet" theme, the way I see it is eat as much veg as you like, and some protein, and some fat. For most people, there's plenty of carbs in veg so it shouldn't need to be supplemented with extra portions of processed carb-heavy food unless activity levels are particularly high.
Everyone is different and you seem to have found a diet that works for you within your own restrictions. From the stats, you're more of the exception than the norm. With 2/3 of Brits being overweight, there's obviously a lot of people who haven't had that result yet. Maybe they need the guidance more than yourself. Although for all the complications and contradictions, I reckon a simpler message may just be "Eat more Veg".
One other thing, if you think you're not eating enough protein have a look at quinoa, its a seed with a higher than average protein content (+ carbs) and the protein is of a very high quality. It contains all the amino acids known to be needed, so is particularly recomended for vegetarians. Myself, I prefer fish 😉

miketually - Member
I had no visible abs and my arms weren't particularly vascular...

After 6 (7?) weeks of iDave...I've got something approaching a 4-pack and veiny arms.

[img] [/img]

I have know vegetarians who are massively overweight eating carb rich diets and massive amounts of cheese, as well as very skinny veggies.

The same as exercise, some people respond differently to different foods. If your overall health is good and you are happy, that is fine.

But I do agree that there is huge evidence that the change to a high-carb diet has had a detrimental effect on the overall health of the population.

Shred - Member

I have know vegetarians who are massively overweight eating carb rich diets and massive amounts of cheese, as well as very skinny veggies.

😆

I recall reading in "Life Without Bread" a couple of years ago, that there are also large number of people who are seriously underweight due to eating too much carbohydrate.

I cant remember the bio-chemistry behind this, but clearly as ever with diet/nutrition its not a case of one size fits all.

You need to find what works for you.

vegetarians who are massively overweight eating carb rich diets and massive amounts of cheese, as well as very skinny veggies.

Modern natural selection at work right there.. survival of the chubbiest

[img] [/img]

Most things I'm reading here are telling me this is all massively 'wrong' but, I seem to be doing ok. Yet anecdotally, I seem to contradict most of the advice given out here.

What gives? Am I going to die?

If it works for you then great - you don't make it sound like you eat many vegetables though.

But unbelievably, people are different, and general advice that seems to work for most people doesn't always apply absolutely in every single case.

By the way low GI isn't an 'Atkin's style' diet. It's lower carb than what we've come to consider normal but it's not really 'low carb' as such. It's also not really a trendy fad diet, given that it fits in with most current medical healthy eating advice. i***e is a somewhat extreme version of it though.

Cougar I'd echo the comments re quinoa , but if you look at veggie foods there are more proteins than you may first think - mushrooms , peas and beans /lentils as well as tofu and quorny stuff if you like .

Just found this: http://www.fitbomb.com/p/why-i-eat-paleo.html

It's about the paleo diet, but a lot of the explanation covers a lot of the slow carb stuff.

But I do agree that there is huge evidence that the change to a high-carb diet has had a detrimental effect on the overall health of the population.

And this is the point.

We're talking about population level changes.

For everyone who, as an individual, appears to buck that trend, great. Carry on.

.

Junkyard - Member
oh ok I will join in
Breakfast - nowt
Not having breakfast is possibly the biggest dietary fail around.

vegetarians who are massively overweight eating carb rich diets and massive amounts of cheese, as well as very skinny veggies

the fatties would never catch me and I would distract them by dropping biscuits and crisps.

Is there a link to Idave diet as I am intrinqued

I don’t need to diet so don’t know much about it tbh any handy precise online?

Not sure why the Paleo diet lumps legumes in with grains and processed foods, but there is some interesting stuff in that article. Good article it links to here about how some kinds of exercise could be counter-productive:

http://www.time.com/time/magazine/article/0,9171,1914974-1,00.html

JY:

For everyone who, as an individual, appears to buck that trend, great. Carry on.

Surely with your rational scientific mind you can see that one individual's anecdotal experience isn't particularly compelling evidence. 😉

the fatties would never catch me and I would distract them by dropping biscuits and crisps.

Should I get all pissy about your fatties digs like you do when I take the piss out of Man U? 😛

For everyone who, as an individual, appears to buck that trend, great. Carry on.

This. With a caveat:

I buck the trend. But, I feel healthier on a slow carb diet than when eating lots of sugar and crap. Weight isn't the be all and end all of health.

So, I'm going to continue to eat differently.

any one fancy a big mac?

They are not aimed at you unless you have put on a lot of weight* and removed meat from your diet
Cheers for the link - i get the argument [ not opinion of whether it is true or not] but what would i be expected to eat on an Idave diet?

I suspect being vegan it wont be easy as everyone seemd to have eggs for breakfast.

* Tries flattery as distraction*

but what would i be expected to eat on an Idave diet?

I dunno, think it's probably pretty hard for Vegans - why would you want to do it anyway though when you are already such a paragon of health and beauty?

Vegans are all pale and wasted anyway, surely? 😉

I suspect you'd have to eat lots and lots and lots and lots and lots and lots and lots and lots and lots and lots and lots and lots and lots and lots and lots and lots and lots and lots and lots and lots and lots and lots and lots and lots and lots and lots of beans and vegetables.

Surely with your rational scientific mind you can see that one individual's anecdotal experience isn't particularly compelling evidence.

Oh, sure. But it nonetheless throws a question mark over some of the ABSOLUTE FACTS that get cited, no?

There's been plenty of talk of how human bodies metabolise foods, presented as irrefutable facts of biology. I have a human body, last I checked, and from everything I've read I should be about 20 stone.

So, logically, either there's something wrong with the original hypotheses, or there's something wrong with me. Is there a third option I've missed?

I can get a calorie controlled diet, with extreme exercise, to work for me. I never bothered looking into sugar or carbs. I do cook virtually all my meals from basic ingredients, although use white sugar in my chinese green tea to make it palatable (I'm starting to shift to not using sugar)

This year I've eaten more processed foods and I've put on weight fast. I don't even know why I was eating that crap? Pizzas, pre-flavoured noodles/noodle soup. I'm guessing it's better to have a cupboard of spices and a veg drawer in the fridge with fresh items. It's a lot more expensive though.

What gets me, is that last year wasn't there a push to get salt out of peoples diets and there was a lot of "replace half the salt with sugar" nonsense that surely is a bad thing now everyone's getting round to the idea that sugar is the issue?

Oh, sure. But it nonetheless throws a question mark over some of the ABSOLUTE FACTS that get cited, no?

There's been plenty of talk of how human bodies metabolise foods, presented as irrefutable facts of biology. I have a human body, last I checked, and from everything I've read I should be about 20 stone.

So, logically, either there's something wrong with the original hypotheses, or there's something wrong with me. Is there a third option I've missed?

Surely you're intelligent enough to realise that people are different and just because something is generally true for the vast majority of people it doesn't make it startlingly evident in every single case? I thought that was a pretty basic/obvious concept.

Sugar isn't THE issue.

It is however a big issue, and one of the easier ones to pinpoint.

Myself, I prefer fish

I made an ace quinoa and smoked mackerel kedgeree recently.

Right, off out for lunch with colleagues. Carpaccio salad awaits.

I have a bottle of corn syrup in the cupboard that an asian student left me. I didn't know what it was for. It appears it is to make food like pizzas taste nicer and preserves food then? I don't see many fat asians if this is a common food item for them. That said, a bag of MSG I use makes my food nice (as a salt/sugar replacement)

Surely you're intelligent enough to realise that people are different

I think you're missing what I'm getting at. We're presented with nutrition advice as fact, if you do x and don't do y then you'll gain / lose weight, because sugar does this and carbs do that etc. I've seen it time and again on here and elsewhere, backed up with scientific explanations (and often then argued about with other people with contradictory science).

There's no wiggle room afforded, no-one ever says anything about people being different. No-one suggests biology only works most of the time.

Might be worth people remembering this basic, obvious concept during the next round of "let's all have a pop at the fatties, they can't stop eating cake and pies," hey?

Might be worth people remembering this basic, obvious concept during the next round of "let's all have a pop at the fatties, they can't stop eating cake and pies," hey?

Too true. Some (many) on this forum are guilty of all too easily swapping fat for lazy, stupid, lower-class, anti-social etc.

I've seen that time and again.

FWIW I'm not particularly overweight. I eat what I like and am probably 5 or 6 kg heavier than I could be. But happy enough with myself and my health not to worry about food.

http://www.3fatchicks.com/regular-vs-high-fructose-corn-syrup-the-difference/

http://www.flyingpenguin.com/?p=7841

Although HFCS is really just sugar, it is a highly processed form of sugar patented by Yoshiyuki Takasaki.

http://www.intermartialarts.com/article/sumo-wrestler-diet

There's no wiggle room afforded, no-one ever says anything about people being different. No-one suggests biology only works most of the time.

I think it's like any scientific 'fact' - eg when people talk about evolution etc - most (intelligent) people realise it's not a 'fact', it's just by far the most convincing theory available to us based on current evidence. But it just gets boring having to repeat that caveat every time you mention evolution.

Might be worth people remembering this basic, obvious concept during the next round of "let's all have a pop at the fatties, they can't stop eating cake and pies," hey?

I dunno why you seem to be directing this at me - I am one of those fatties.

Too true. Some (many) on this forum are guilty of all too easily swapping fat for lazy, stupid, lower-class, anti-social etc.

Yeah, or calling people knobs for trying to lose weight and feel healthier.

But happy enough with myself and my health not to worry about food.

Great, but why the need to demean other people for feeling differently? Not really a sign of being happy with yourself tbh.

[img] [/img]

http://www.intermartialarts.com/article/sumo-wrestler-diet

Oooh all the advice is so conflicting! So should I do the sumo-wrestler diet or a low GI diet?

I think it's like any scientific 'fact' - eg when people talk about evolution etc

That doesn't really hold up as an analogy unless you're suggesting that the nutritional advice and their corresponding biological explanations are really just theories? I'd be interested to see whether STW's resident nutritionists would concur with that or not.

I dunno why you seem to be directing this at me

I dunno why you think I am. I said "people" (and meant "some people" I guess), I wasn't referring to anyone specifically.

why would you want to do it anyway though when you are already such a paragon of health and beauty?

SO still what do I eat in the idave diet - si ther eoa fact sheet somewhere on the interweb - gogling only gets lots of results for here would you believe it !

That doesn't really hold up as an analogy unless you're suggesting that the nutritional advice and their corresponding biological explanations are really just theories?

Yes they are just theories - but some of them have a lot of evidence to back them up. TBH I agree that sometimes people can be too keen to promote things as fact when they mean it is merely the most plausible theory. The trouble is though that leaves it open to idiots (or people endlessly playing Devil's Advocate on forums 😉 ) to go 'well that's just a theory, I have a theory too which is just as good' based on virtually no evidence whatsoever.

I dunno why you think I am.

Because you quoted me at the top of the post.

SO still what do I eat in the idave diet - si ther eoa fact sheet somewhere on the interweb - gogling only gets lots of results for here would you believe it !

I do have a pdf somewhere if you [i]actually[/i] want me to send it to you 🙂 - I don't actually do that diet anyway.

You can be thin/light and still have a high % body fat. You could be a thin fat person.

You can also have a low % body fat despite eating crap, perhaps because of a low insulin production?

http://www.intermartialarts.com/article/sumo-wrestler-diet

not a jot of science in there.
I can probably pull up a dozen articles that claim the opposite effects of skipping breakfast/empty stomach training etc.

I put it to you that if you eat 10,000 calories a day - no matter what time of day, no matter how much you spread them out - you will get proper fat.

I want to look my best [in my Man U kit] at your wedding

DIE. (do I need to put a smiley here?)

I put it to you that if you eat 10,000 calories a day - no matter what time of day, no matter how much you spread them out - you will get proper fat.

Um... I think that's kind of the point if you're a sumo wrestler.

yes but remember to have 6 pints of ale with every meal...I think we may be loosing many STW ers to Summotrackworld 😉

Cougar - Member

.....nutritional advice and their corresponding biological explanations are really just theories? I'd be interested to see whether STW's resident nutritionists would concur with that or not.

I concur 😀

The concepts and proposed explanations are [i]just theories[/i]
when they are applied to individual cases (people) and the results observed, recorded and analysed they become facts relevant to that particular case.
When a significant number of cases are studied and recorded using the same methodology, the data becomes facts relevant to that particular population group.
However, it is not until the data appears on Wikipedia, is found in a google search by a big hitter and discussed on a bicycling message board that it becomes :FACT:

Yesterday's lunch weighed in at 500g. Today's was 650g. I am rather full.

Sure. The day that two 'nutritionists' agree on something, there will be a parade. It's a branch of pseudoscience best taken with a pinch of low sodium iodised salt.

I'm really talking about the biology and chemistry side of things though rather than whether olive oil is good or bad for you this week. How the body converts carbs into sugars, for instance; I've never read anything to suggest that's anything other than accepted fact. Is it? Or is it just a theory?

It makes sense to me that eating a lot of processed food and sugar would be bad for you, not just in a weight sense but in that it's nutritionally poor.

I kind of go by these principles (along with being gluten free through necessity)

1) Cook from scratch where possible using unprocessed ingredients

2) Don't shop when you're hungry - anyone see that episode of Secret Eaters? People chose higher calorie and higher fat foods when they shopped after not eating all morning, and ate 3x more.

3) Listen to your body - after several years of living with digestive disorders, that's become the main one for me. My body knows what it likes and doesn't like - I can't tolerate large quantities of starchy foods, dairy products or pulses, the skin off apples, pears and potatoes (weird I know) or fizzy drinks.

4) Eat for a healthy lifestyle and long term health, don't "diet" (unless you are really overweight/obese obviously) if you make your diet a positive lifestyle choice not about deprivation and motivated solely by being thin, you are more likely to stick to it.

Cougar - Member
It's a branch of pseudoscience best taken with a pinch of low sodium iodised salt.

.........is that "just a theory" or a :FACT: 😆

Oh, sure. But it nonetheless throws a question mark over some of the ABSOLUTE FACTS that get cited, no?
There's been plenty of talk of how human bodies metabolise foods, presented as irrefutable facts of biology. I have a human body, last I checked, and from everything I've read I should be about 20 stone.
So, logically, either there's something wrong with the original hypotheses, or there's something wrong with me. Is there a third option I've missed?

You seem to be confusing questions with answers?

I wasn't concluding or criticising anything, I was looking for an explanation.

[i]Yesterday's lunch weighed in at 500g. Today's was 650g. I am rather full[/i]

Lunch today was 167g hummous, Salami Milano, 230g of chick peas, 250g of Tuna.
Don't think I 'll be able to worry any of the food at home tonight.
Stuff'd !.

Obviously Genetics play a significant role in how predisposed each one of us are to either partition the calories we consume to body fat or to energy.
In the same way that our faces are all distinctive.
Most of us may possess two eyes, a nose and a mouth, but we're all a long way from looking the same.

Cougar, theres been a lot of testing going on since the 19th Century and there is alot that is considered to be well established fact, now.
Wiki or no.
😉

Thought I'd pop back here after watching the first 5 mins of that Robb Wolf video.
He makes a point I've been trying to get across for a while.
Theres a lot of stuff going on inside our bodies ( no shit Solo ), that we aren't, [b]outwardly[/b] aware of.
Also, it can take a long time for noticeable symptoms to develop from eating foods which have been part of a diet for half a life time.
check Robb Wolf's comment about cinammon bagels and arthritis.

Which has been my point in a few flame-offs.
You don't get conditions like atherosclerosis, over night, because you consumed some[b]thing[/b].
It may take years, decades, to get that way.
Which is perhaps why AWAIK, most chronic cases are diagnosed in later life.
Which brings me to this.

[i]miketually - Member

For everyone who, as an individual, appears to buck that trend, great. Carry on.

This. With a caveat:

I buck the trend. But, I feel healthier on a slow carb diet than when eating lots of sugar and crap. [b]Weight isn't the be all and end all of health.[/b]

So, I'm going to continue to eat differently.[/i]
Plus 1

http://wiseandfit.com/fitness/knowing-the-body-types-ectomorph-endomorph-and-mesomorph/

How can I work out what type of a [i]Morph[/i] I am.

I can't seem to find anything in the Manufactuers hand book.

http://www.livestrong.com/mesomorphism/

[img] [/img]

Fooooouuuuuurrrrrrr-UNDRED