[Closed] Why don't caravans have four wheels then?

It’s a pivot point for turning.

Because its essentially a trailer.

Some do have four wheels admittedly

You have a thesis and and anti-thesis, now you need a synthesis.

Reversing a four wheel caravan/trailer with an axle at each end is really difficult, as you have two pivot points to cope with. Probably be great otherwise.

Kayak, you unpatriotic bar steward!

Baden Powell conquered the world in a 2 wheeled caravan and will do so again once the UK achieves Nirvana!

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#4wheeltraitor

Because caravans are built to be light, adding another axle is probably 150kg which would put it above what most SUVs/large saloons can tow safely.

Also a twin axle caravan is very hard to manoeuvre by hand especially if you need to turn it due to tyre scrub, which means lots of people add motor movers, which is even more weight.

P.S That 'chimney' is a stabiliser that prevents yawing (sway) of the caravan...

... 😉

Can you imagine the chaos if caravan owners were suddenly unleashed on the world with drawbar steering trailers (like wot tractors use)?

[img] [/img]

Half of them can't even reverse a single axle trailer, it would be carnage.

Setting up on uneven ground may also cause some hilarious moments issues

Nah, still think a system like that trailer up there would solve more issues than it creates. For that reason, I'm out.

Nah, still think a system like that trailer up there would solve more issues than it creates. For that reason, I’m out.

You have clearly never had to maneuver a drawbar steering trailer.

Dual axle trailers are much easier to manuver than single axles if you have loaded it right. They are slower to turn so you get a chance to correct it.

Single axle trailers tend to continue in the direction they have gone unless you draw forward again imo.

But of course it matters little when some people cannot comprehend how to reverse with a trailer. I actually fully support the licencing for trailers.

Cost.

Next question.

Cost.

Next question.

Looking at some of the outfits folks in camp grounds have and the vehicles towing them, cost is not an issue. 😉

I come from a farm, and have decades of experience reversing trailers.
In fact, i passed my bus test in a double decker with a trailer on the back.
I would not feel confident reversing a trailer with drawbar steering.
I will also point out, reversing a tractor with a trailer on the back is easier than reversing a car with a trailer/caravan, due to being higher up and having a much better view.
Most car drivers would have great difficulty manoeuvring a trailer with drawbar steering imo.

swaying about, overtaking me at 70-odd.

That's not a caravan design flaw.

Caravans are pretty stable and easy to tow if you load them right. I've put a fair bit of effort and some money into getting mine well sorted, suffice to say that a lot of people don't bother.

Also I don't think you'd be able to manoeuvre a four wheel trailer by hand, whereas with single axle it's dead east and you can slot them I to small spaces or park them accurately by hand or with a small motor.

I saw one last week in Austria. A BiMobil AX575 aka expensive Swiss behemoth.

See now, that's more like it. The majority of caravan places I've seen, you really don't need to do much manoeuvring. It's just like parking it on a drive.

As mentioned above though, I suppose most issues with them fish-tailing come from bad loading but I saw several over the weekend where the rear suspension on the car was so compressed it was like a lowered and stanced car for a youth.😊

Another set of wheels would remove that.

Wheels? Why not use some good old fashioned British ingenuity and invent the hover caravan?
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Why not add some sort of active steering and perhaps a supplementary drive system?
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Murray

Why not add some sort of active steering and perhaps a supplementary drive system?

It's a great idea but it'll never catch on... 🙂

Slap a VW badge on it and idiots will pay way over the odds for it!

Molgrips is right...its a problem of driver skill and judgement...or rather lack of it. The boys back in the '60's who used to rally cars towing caravans seemed to have no issues hustling them at speed.

Molgrips is right…its a problem of driver skill and judgement

Or....training.

This video taught me a thing or two after a bit of a moment towing a car trailer a short distance (off of a rally stage, not on the road);

There is still a 60mph limit when towing caravans in the UK right???

Just checking..

I once closed the M56 eastbound (2 lane section) with my very poor trailer driving technique, found a new job the following week, not for me.

There is still a 60mph limit when towing caravans in the UK right???

on motorways. 50mph anywhere else with a National Speed Limit.

Setting up on uneven ground may also cause some hilarious moments issues

Although if they were also fitted with hydrogas suspension that auto-levelled that would be cool.

Fifth wheelers are probably the best solution but require a specific type of tow vehicle.

Because roads have corners and bends. Next question?

What's the difference between a corner and a bend?

Monumental things, longer and longer, swaying about, overtaking me at 70-odd.

I've witnessed caravans fishtailing at 70mph and pulling the cars towing them 360 degrees before exploding into matchwood. Not pretty.

I think the legal limit for towing a caravan is 56mph. Can't think why.

I think the legal limit for towing a caravan is 56mph. Can’t think why.

No that's hgv.

I think the legal limit for towing a caravan is 56mph. Can’t think why.

60 on motorways, 50 on single carriageway roads.

Fishtailing is caused by a number of things - not enough nose-weight i.e. poorly loaded caravan; tyres too soft; also not helped by having a rear washroom and leaving the toilet full of water and/or sewage.

My van needs 64psi in its tyres which is the max on the reinforced commercial tyres. I've got a large plastic tote box full of all the sundry bits and pieces like electrical cables and wheel chocks, and I can move this around to get the balance right. However since fitting a spare wheel under the rear and keeping a second gas bottle up front things are nicely balanced, and I've got air spring assisters on the car which helps keep it level. It's really pretty good now.

What’s the difference between a corner and a bend?

A bend is a section of road that curves.

and a corner is a section of road that bends?

RE: trailer years and competence.

Don't forget that anyone who passed their test before 1997ish, so most over 40's who partake in caravanning, haven't had to have any extra training whatsoever to tow these things. When the trailer test was first mooted the Caravan Club strongly campaigned against it as they could see their numbers dwindling as eligible towers died off. It's the reason you can tow a small trailer up to 750kg on a normal license. So the vast majority of caravanners have never done any formal training about speed limits, safe driving methods, loading correctly or reversing skills. There is nothing inherently wrong with a single axle caravan, a lot of issues are caused by user errors, particularly poor loading.

I’ve witnessed caravans fishtailing at 70mph and pulling the cars towing them 360 degrees before exploding into matchwood. Not pretty.

A34 northbound near Didcot last night.

Ford mondeo (whats left of it, facing South) plus former 2 bed detached bungalow on wheels sufficiently battered that i couldnt tell if it was upside down or not whilst driving past southbound.

Caravans are an extreme case for towing, they're big but quite light and the cog isnt all that low.

Compared to most stuff youd put on a trailer which tends to have a lower cog, higher density (lower moments of inertia) and less windage.

I dont think licencing is the problem, it's caravans. Towing something small and heavy like a boat or trailer full of waste is easy, and reversing with it is just a matter of practice. Caravans on the other hand are just big. And the bigger they are the more likely they are to crash.

On the upside, i cant see many people bothering to do their towing licence just to tow a larger caravan so once the current owners are gone there'll be a lot less on the road.

We have reached Peak STW arguing over corners and bends.

I’ve witnessed caravans fishtailing at 70mph and pulling the cars towing them 360 degrees before exploding into matchwood attack ships on fire off the shoulder of Orion. I watched C-beams glitter in the dark near the Tannhäuser Gate.

No that’s hgv

Only in Scotland. It's been 60mph in England & Wales for a few years now on DC and motorways.

dont think licencing is the problem, it’s caravans. Towing something small and heavy like a boat or trailer full of waste is easy, and reversing with it is just a matter of practice. Caravans on the other hand are just big. And the bigger they are the more likely they are to crash.

It's as easy to have a badly loaded small trailer of waste bouncing about but the car can mask the drivers obliviousness to it. There's not enough momentum or windage to bother the car.

Then there's the what you do when you notice it's wobbling....instinct reactions is what gets people into jackknife situations.

What’s the difference between a corner and a bend?

Do you know the difference between a square and a circle? Same idea.

Don’t forget that anyone who passed their test before 1997ish, so most over 40’s who partake in caravanning, haven’t had to have any extra training whatsoever to tow these things.

You can still tow without training if you aren't over 3.5t. I think this is a bad thing despite benefitting from it.

I dont think licencing is the problem, it’s caravans. Towing something small and heavy like a boat or trailer full of waste is easy, and reversing with it is just a matter of practice. Caravans on the other hand are just big. And the bigger they are the more likely they are to crash.

Still don't think so. Towing caravans is easy if you load it right. You just drive. Manoevring is no different to a boat or any other trailer, and tends not to be fatal if you do it wrong. Just have another go.

I guarantee that almost all the crashes you see are due to poor loading, tyres too old and/or too soft, or idiotic behaviour from drivers. And those things can get you into trouble whatever you are driving. I've seen plenty of crashed cars, vans and flipped over HGVs. But every time someone sees a crashed carvan it's 'oh caravans are crap'.

Because roads have corners and bends. Next question?

So you're saying that a caravan with a double axle, front axle pivoting, would take a significantly different path around a corner than a caravan with a single axle?

Can't see as it'd make any difference unless the corner was very tight. If you unhitch the caravan and are manoeuvring it by hand then maybe it would, but towing, the caravan follows pretty much the same path as the car.