[Closed] who isn't going to vote?

that is as good as not voting anyway.

What even if he lives in Brighton ?

Although I think he should make the effort and do it himself.

stupid thread.

Agreed, I'm not voting, green party or otherwise. I think we agreed on another thread earlier, voting slips should have a box labelled 'I think all the current political offerings are useless and/or liars/thick/****s/racists so I choose to not vote for any of them'

I'd make the time to tick that box. I guarantee if it were offered, that choice would be the most popular one. How that issue would be addressed I don't know though.

Can someone start a campaign to get a 'None of the above' box added to the ballot sheet? It would a landslide.
Samuai, maybe we could add our box at the bottom?

I agree Samuri. In the meantime, I'll vote.

The facility already exists - you can write : [i]"I think all the current political offerings are useless and/or liars/thick/****/racists so I choose to not vote for any of them"[/i] on your ballot paper, and it will be meticulously counted along with all the other spoilt ballot papers. The total spoilt ballot papers will be declared at the declaration of the count.

I don't think anywhere has yet achieved a 'landslide victory' for the spoilt ballot papers though.

Still never mind - do it......if you want to waste your council's time and money.

my dissertation is due on the 6th. before the deadline i will be writing. after the deadline i will either be writing another essay, or getting pissed.

i doubt i will be voting...

Do you have any idea how long it takes to vote hungry monkey ? Voting in the UK isn't like some third world country where you have to walk for an hour to the polling station, and then queue for another six before you can vote. The whole thing takes minutes - you won't have set the best part of a day to do it.

By all means don't vote because you can't be arsed - but don't pretend that it'll be because you'll be doing other things.

You can moan about the government if you voted for them, or voted for someone else.

it greatly reassures me that I live in a country where people are happier to vote week after week on TV reality shows but when asked to go and put a cross and a piece of paper decide it's not worth the hassle. Go and Vote even if you spoil you paper it's a vote.

For those that don't I hope never to hear any kind of complaint as to how the country is run for the next 5 years.

Not sure the 'if you don't vote you shouldn't moan' arguement is valid.

Surely you should only moan if the party you don't want gets in. So if you don't want/trust/like any of the parties offerred then your only recourse is to not vote.

This should give you the most valid reason to complain as whovever gets in was not your choice.

Those who complain about the party they personally voted for are the ones in the wrong.

The problem with spoiling the ballot paper is it can and probably will be reported by some news agencies as less of a protest and more of incompetence of the voter, which is not the voice of the action. If someone does not want to follow as system they see as unfair, then spoiling the paper is not voicing their concern but is still supporting the process.
People fought and died for future generations to have the freedom to vote but they also fought and died for people to choose not to vote and use their free will and choice without persecution too.

For the "none of the above" issue, how about one of those petitions online to number ten that never get any action. You know, the ones set up to empower the people while giving them nothing.

if you don't vote don't moan when you have a BNP member of parliament because they could be arsed to turn out....

"Agreed, I'm not voting, green party or otherwise."

Translation:

"I'm too lazy to even vote by post."

I would never trust a politician and I reserve the right to bitch, whine and whinge about whichever untrustworthy conniving sod gets in, but I will have exercised my franchise. ffs! there's people all over the world dieing for the right to vote in a democratic election, and people in the UK spoil ( =waste) their vote or can't be arsed to get to a polling station.

(hmm, needs more swearing and a few more capital letters to be a proper rant)

jam bo - Member

that is as good as not voting anyway

not true at all, even a little bit.

i don't want the greens to win, but i do want them to keep their candidate deposit, so i'll vote for them (I live in a Lib dem safe seat) to bump up their vote share - hopefully over the 5% required to get their £500 deposit back.

i don't want the BNP / ukip / other idiots to win, and i [b]don't[/b] want them to get their deposit back, voting for [i]anyone else[/i] decreases the idiot's share of the vote, making it more likely they will lose money.

and a green vote makes a point, if the conservatives want to win here, they'll have to make moves to win green voters.

But that does mean that this time round it's a wasted vote, even if future voting may be better placed because of it. Your vote has had no effect on the outcome of how your area is controlled.

I live in brighton, so could vote for the greenies for ya (and it might make a difference). but I shan't be. I consider it to be a waste of my time, however small, and that whichever party is in power will have a tiny impact on my life as I just pay a lot of tax and don't use a lot of services (I'm too old for education, too young for kids).

also, that bunch of hippies in brighton just started this up
http://www.theargus.co.uk/news/5016367.Brighton__bike_train__set_to_be_unveiled/

which caused gridlock on the lewis road today. top marks - more fumes rather than less

if so, can you vote on my behalf for the Greens Party?

I'm a bit concerned by this to be honest. If you're not in the UK but entitled to vote here then why did you not register for a postal or proxy vote? Alternatively if you're not entitled to vote in UK elections, then you don't get a say and really shouldn't be asking anyone to "vote on your behalf".

As for voting Green, frankly their stance on a lot of things can be described as anti-science so there is no way I'd consider voting for them

yep I reckon if you don't vote you don't deserve the right to complain about the gov't

Your vote has had no effect on the outcome of how your area is controlled.

I was definitely in the if you don't vote you don't deserve to complain camp but the more I think about it the more I think a vote for a mainstream party is a vote in favour of the current political system. The biggest story of this election (or any election come to that) could be a mass abstention.

On balance, I'll still vote though and vote Lib Dem, if for no other reason than to bolster their total national vote and further highlight the absurdity of the imbalance in the difference in the votes to seats ratios of the main parties.

"I'm too lazy to even vote by post."

My polling station is nearer than the post box

I hear your pain convert. I grew up in tory safe seat constituency, so I found myself a solution: Emigrate 😀

Anyway, no matter who you vote for, the government still win. 😉

DaRC_L - Member said

yep I reckon if you don't vote you don't deserve the right to complain about the gov't
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So if, for the sake of simplicity, there are 5 MP's standing in my area, and I do not agree with or want any of them, then by this standard I would still have to vote for one of them to give me the right to complain about whichever one gets in?

yep I reckon if you don't vote you don't deserve the right to complain about the gov't

Nonsense, surely you can still moan about all the people who voted for the winning party, regardless of whether what they do when in power bears any resemblance to their manifesto.

Mind you, I'm happy to not spend time moaning, especially moaning about other people not being allowed to moan about something 😉

I'm not voting.

I think it's an archaic, non representative system and I'm not supporting it by turning out. A spoilt vote would just get lumped in with those of the idiots who can't colour between the lines and would have no real consequence.

And yes "millions of people have died" for freedom but why freedom has to equate to a 3 party parliamentary stitch up in the minds of many I'll never know. Besides which more people have died for communism - does that make it right?

Spoil your ballot, its 1 less vote for the BNP, and less chance of their getting a deposit back.

Greens want to legalise weed, having seen the effect of heavy use over a year on my flatmate, I won't be voting for that, he doubled in weight and lost the ability to string coherent scentances together.

"who isn't going to vote?"

Who cannot vote?
"people who have a severe mental illness and are unable to understand the voting procedure."

http://www.adviceguide.org.uk/index/your_rights/civil_rights/voting_procedures.htm

who was it you wanted me to vote for again? ... it was a colour... er.. what colour was it?

I never really accept the argument that if Singletrack Magazine isn't very good I should write articles for it for free, becuase I can always not bother, and that has no effect on my life.

For most people, who forms the government has quite a substantial effect on their lives, because government in its various forms has a substantial effect on their lives.

You can sit around saying that you don't support or agree with any of the people putting themselves forward to be your representative in the parliament from which your government is chosen, of course. But no-one ever achieved political change by bitching and whining. If you reckon you're somehow not getting the government you feel you deserve, but also not voting then it's not that you forfeit your "right" to complain about the government. You're probably getting screwed.

I'll always vote. And I'll vote on issues and attitudes that are important to me, and in concert with people I feel are in my tribe, or in a tribe that I respect and want the best for. And the people putting themselves forward to be our representative will listen to what I'm saying and the ones I don't usually vote for will work to get my vote from my usual lot. Because it's easier to get my vote that it is to get yours, because they don't know what you want in a representative, they may think you don't know, and you've no track record of getting off your arse to vote anyway. So they'll do things they think I'll like, and not worry about your stuff much. And you know what? The country will be basically fine. There'll still be a government. It'll be democratic to a very high standard. It will do a reasonable job of running the country. But it won't have a chance of doing what you want it to do, even if it knew or cared what you want it to do.

It doesn't do what I want it to do all the time, and it could always be better. That's the way democracy, and indeed real life, seems to work. But I have some tiny influence through voting, and some sense that how I am governed is a project that I'm involved in. If you don't vote at all, ever, you don't even have that minimal influence. And if the country isn't being governed in the way you'd like to see you have some responsibility for that, because you didn't do the one thing you could easily, cheaply and quickly do to get that influence.

Seems a shame to me. 😐

[i]And yes "millions of people have died" for freedom but why freedom has to equate to a 3 party parliamentary stitch up in the minds of many I'll never know. Besides which more people have died for communism - does that make it right?
[/i]

The mind boggles. This is very sad. 🙁

Go on then, why?

I find it hard, quite simply, to envisage the sort of ingratitude and lack of awareness that leads someone in the UK to refuse to vote because they do not have "freedom" or because they cannot really see the difference between an open liberal society and the sort you get if people aren't allowed to choose their government in free elections.

But I'm assuming you live in the UK. Maybe you're talking about the elections in Zimbabwe or somewhere. 🙂

EDIT: I don't care, obviously. The System will survive and won't notice. Unless you're missing out the bit about how you're not voting, but you are getting ready to de for communism. In which case I fervently hope you merely break an ankle and look a bit silly for communism instead. 🙂

Who cannot vote?
"people who have a severe mental illness and are unable to understand the voting procedure."

Wrong thread, but as an aside, not sure what I'm thinking about the latest issue in the convert household. My wife works for a charity that supports adults with severe learning difficulties. Coming across her desk on Friday was a leaflet from Mencap explaining the rights of those with learning difficulties to vote and how they should be supported in doing so. All worthy stuff and for those with mild issues eminently sensible. But for some.....the images in my head would not go down well with some of the PC brigade that work there. I can just see some centre manager feeling honour bound to wheel the centre's residents down for a day trip to the polling booth. I can categorically say in the odd hour that I spend weekly supporting a lad down there I've never had conversations about worldly issues. Fortunately I only go down there at the weekend & polling day is mid week so not my concern. I guess he will not be the only constituent without a lot of knowledge to make his mark. I'm sure common sense will prevail.

That's an interesting one convert. I think if those with profound learning difficulties were a major force in British politics I'd want to look at the issue pretty hard. But until that point I reckon treating people with learning difficulties as much like everyone else as possible is the right way to go. As you say, a lot of people's ideas about why they are voting in a particular way wouldn't survive a lot of rational scrutiny.

I think you probably misunderstood the intention of my post, which is probably because I tried to keep it short instead of ranting on.

Basically I don't see the current system as being the pinnacle of the democratic process and that it has a lot of room for improvement. Unfortunately part of the improvement would (imho) come about with the scrapping of party led politics (which political parties are unlikely to introduce), the introduction of greater accountability to the public beyond one vote every 5 years and more power to individuals via referendums etc.

So whilst we do (thankfully) have free elections and our system is much better than that of many countries around the world I don't believe it's the be all and end all of democracy. As such I'll exercise the freedoms others paid for and not vote for a system I don't believe in. Obviously I acknowledge that if I was more motivated I could further exercise these freedoms by campaigning to change the system.

In a nutshell then -

Whilst being thankful that we've got freedom as a concept I don't agree with the current system with which that freedom is implemented...

The line about communism was just to illustrate the flaws in the idea that somehow it's numbers of dead that decide the legitimacy of a system which is inherent in the "millions have died" argument often used to try and shame people into voting.

Fair enough. I don't know. I honestly can't help feeling that the change you want is unlikely to be achieved by not voting though. The trouble to my mind is that not voting doesn't send a message that can be easily deciphered by anyone.

This, absolutely: [i]if I was more motivated I could further exercise these freedoms by campaigning to change the system[/i], but I reckon I'd be voting until I'd got the energy.

And apologies, to the extent that I made the mistake of taking you for an idiot. 🙂

I genuinely believe one easily implemented idea which would make a difference would be a proper "none of the above" option with a list of reasons why to choose from. I think that the politicians would be shocked by the amount of people who would bother to register a real and clearly identifiable protest vote.

As for taking me for an idiot - don't worry, you're not the first. Unfortunately 🙁 😉

I would say the vast majority of my mates and work collogues do not exercise their right to vote. I always have even if I am unsure who to vote for. To be honest I have never really had an idea who to vote for.! I suppose I got this from my old man who hates people who waste their vote.

I will vote but I always get the feeling I am p!ssing into the wind.

Can someone start a campaign to get a 'None of the above' box added to the ballot sheet? It would a landslide.

So what would happen in a constituency where "None of the above" won? Would it have no representation in national government or would nominations for new candidates be re-opened and a by-election scheduled?

I am not going to claim that politicians are blameless but the current level of cynicism regarding politics is very depressing. I wonder how many principled, decent people consider standing for parliament but then decide not to because they don't want to be automatically reviled by so much of the populace simply for wanting to make a difference?

I'm afraid no representation is the only fair option.

Anyone (give or take) can stand for parliament after all. You do not have to accept the candidates put forward by existing political parties, or indeed the fringe nutters. But if you really, really think you are qualified to say [i]none[/i] of the above on a ballot paper with 20 names on [i]and[/i] you can't/won't articulate a policy platform and put yourself forward then I'm not convinced that the system need necessarily bend over backwards to ensure you are represented by somebody. A lack of representation would build up enthusiasm among most of the electorate in a constituency for electing someone pretty rapidly I suspect.

EDIT: That's a collective "you", for the electors of a constituency. It's hard to imagine a majority for NOTA though. A [i]huge[/i] proportion of those not voting is laziness, apathy and disorganisation rather than an active rejection of the franchise on principle.

[i]I wonder how many principled, decent people consider standing for parliament [/i]

Lots, I reckon. Mug's game at the moment. 😐

You see, if I was convinced that most modern politicians were in it to make a difference, I'd feel differently about it. The 3 main candidates I have to choose from are early to mid 30s, no real experience of "life" and on the surface look like they are in it as way to jump to the top of society. Too many politicians give the impression they are in it for the power and position rather than an urge to help shape the world in a particular way.

My grandad was an old school union man, coming up through the ranks working in the industry he went on to be a national union leader in through the 70's. He stood for parliament but didn't get in. I remember going around his house to smoky rooms full of rather over passionate fellow members full of fire in their bellies. There was a lot in retrospect not to like about the old boy, but you had to admire his passion and determination to see the world change for what he thought was the better. I want a bit of that in my modern day equivalents.

ChrisL - Member

So what would happen in a constituency where "None of the above" won?

easy, the candidate who came second would become MP, but he/she would thereafter be addressed as 'the dis-honourable useless tw*t'

i'm serious.

I wonder how many principled, decent people consider standing for parliament but then decide not to because they don't want to be automatically reviled by so much of the populace simply for wanting to make a difference?

i don't think that's a problem, most decent people would never get the oppurtunity to stand for MP, they'd be stabbed in the back by the machiavellian power addicts long before they got that far.

the problem with spoiling the ballot paper is it can and probably will be reported by some news agencies as less of a protest and more of incompetence of the voter

I've never been aware of it being reported in such a way. I have always assumed that 'spoilt ballot papers' were protest votes, based on the assumption that even a complete idiot, can probably manage to draw a cross in a box.

And anyway, if sufficient numbers of people wanted to spoil their ballot papers in protest against 'all of the above' how TF could 10, 20, or 30, thousand spoilt ballot papers be dismissed as voter incompetence ?

The reality is, that the "none of the above" brigade lacks widespread support amongst voters.

[i]you had to admire his passion and determination to see the world change for what he thought was the better. I want a bit of that in my modern day equivalents. [/i]

Trouble is, we don't seem to want the sort of change these days that is forced forward by the kind of people who were in union politics in the 70s.

It's really hard to come up with an issue that divides big slabs of the country and that gets people that fired up. It is simply not possible to come over all fire and brimstone on the issue of whether financial services should be subject to tripartitie regulation by the BoE, Treasury and FSA or whether that function should be performed by the BoE alone. People who stand for parliament need to care, but the people electing them generally don't really. There is a fairly genuine consensus across a very wide centre ground, with substantial agreement about how, actually, this is supposed to work.

You probably get the real conviction guys still in the BNP and UKIP, and the Green Party. Barnbrook and Griffin must wake up every morning convinced that they've another shot at saving Britain today and that if people only listened to them then it could happen.

Cameron and co are basically promising to do essentially the same things on broadly the same budget and in similar ways, but with delicate changes of nuance and priority and with fresh, shiney little faces. No-onegoes into politics in that climate because they want to reduce the amount of inheritance tax that the richest 5% of the population pays slightly, or to abolish surestart centres and the child tax credit. It's just not a passion that animates anyone. Instead, they come into politics because it's an interesting, highly challenging status job and more exciting than working at a bank.

Or, if they're properly mental they spend an entire political carrer explaining with great passion and enthusiasm that the blacks should go home, or that the British economy should be replaced with a peasant agricultural society and a lot of wind-farms. And they don't generally get elected in great numbers.

[i]even a complete idiot can probably manage to draw a cross in a box[/i]

I suspect a proportion of idiots get carried away when they realise they've mastered the technique and do a couple more just to show off. 😉

So even if you do happen to actually give a shit who gets into power, we all know one vote isnt going to do anything, so what's the point?

The best argument in this thread I've seen so far for voting is that theres a small chance you'll cost the BNP 500 quid. Even that is unlikely enough that it's probably not worth the hassle.

[i]we all know one vote isnt going to do anything, so what's the point?[/i]

This isn't correct, so I rather hope we [i]don't[/i] all know it. 🙂

Your vote (in common with every other vote cast in your constituency) decides who will represent that constituency in parliament, and legitimises their presence there.

Seriously, you can't see the point of voting unless your vote is the only vote that counts? Or you think it's actually rigged somehow?

I don't think I will because I have a feeling the local council will not send my postal vote through. This will really piss me off.

my vote counts. lots. four times more than the average voter apparently.. 8)

Do I think it's rigged somehow ?

"More people voted for the Conservatives in England than for Labour - but the Conservatives won 92 seats less than Labour within England (285 to 193). The Conservatives received 60,000 more votes than Labour in England."

http://www.historylearningsite.co.uk/2005_british_general_election.htm

For every million who voted Labour they secured 37 MPs, for every million who voted Conservative they achieved 22 MPs and for every million who voted Liberal Democrat they secured 10 MPs.

http://www.makemyvotecount.org.uk/opus19056.html

I always have even if I am unsure who to vote for.

Why? And what do you do, just go for a random box? If you accept responsibility for the political outcome, surely you owe it to yourself and everyone else to be sure what you're actually voting for?

I'm in agreement with Ivan and would have voted on previous occasions if PR was in place. I like the point about extremist parties losing their deposit, this actually inspired me to investigate further. I wouldn't want Arthur Pendragon to loose his cash though, so might have voted for him. Sadly, it's too late for me to register now, maybe next time.

gusamc - that's not really "rigging" though is it? It's an electroral system that isn't designed to do what you feel it should do.

An election is rigged if votes are counted which are not cast, or are not counted or people are prevented from voting.

A system which returns a member elected with the greatest share of the vote in each consitutency is not going to replicate the results that would be achieved by a party list voting system which tried to translate national voting shares into parliamentary representation.

We may not like it, but to call it "rigging" is like calling disappointing sex "rape". 🙂

Democracy needs voting to survive. The present voting system is unfair and puts people off voting. So vote to change to a fairer system and save our democracy from decline.

I am fortunate enough to live in an area where a Lib Dem (lady) can win the seat. By voting for her I'm doing my level best to give us a hung parliament!

A hung parliament result illustrates the problems of our system. Only by acknowledging the problem will politicians be aroused to fix it.

There's an election on??

My grandad was an old school union man, coming up through the ranks working in the industry he went on to be a national union leader in through the 70's. He stood for parliament but didn't get in. I remember going around his house to smoky rooms full of rather over passionate fellow members full of fire in their bellies. There was a lot in retrospect not to like about the old boy, but you had to admire his passion and determination to see the world change for what he thought was the better. I want a bit of that in my modern day equivalents.

Sounds like he was a dirty party hack, who fought and backstabbed his way through the party machine so he could get a chance of catching the gravy train... Or at least that's how it may appear to a cynical outsider. You saw him as a person so know he had principles and can tell he was obviously in it for heartfelt reasons. Unlike modern candidates obviously, as you can easily see through any utterance of sincerity they produce.

Now you see, I'm rather concerned about quite a few comments on here. The people who are quite clearly pro voting can't even read the comments posted by people who aren't, and they're the people choosing the next government.

To make it clear then, the people who are actively not voting are not doing so because they're lazy or stupid or want BNP to win, they're making a stand much as our grandfathers etc did to allow us to vote (where the hell does this come from anyway? You know Hitler was voted into power don't you?), if someone thinks all the candidates are useless, why should they be forced to vote?

I'm glad I live in a place where I have the option not to vote and I'm sorry so many people here wished it was different.

You know Hitler was voted into power don't you?

Doesn't that completely undermine your argument about not voting ? Obviously voting makes a difference then.
Or am I missing something ?

It only undermines people claiming that our ancestors went out and fought for us to have the vote. Do you think people were queueing up at the recruiting stations demanding to be allowed to go and fight the hun because they might take their voting rights away?

I'd be careful about suggesting it's a good thing that Hitler got voted in by the way, people might take it the wrong way.

A lot of people won't vote because they can't be arsed. This has to be bad for democracy and it will mean that the minority, some might say motivated parties, will appear to do better, this could lend them some legitimacy in much the same way as Nick Clegg gained a heightened profile after the first TV debate. Having the BNP strut about because they got a larger proportion of the vote, or even worse get an MP elected, should bring shame on all those who decided not to bother voting.

Of course it has to be recognised that there are loads of reasons why people just won't bother (many of them discussed in this thread) and it has to be up to the parties to get these people out to vote.

That said, I reckon turnout this time will be up.

Do you think people were queueing up at the recruiting stations demanding to be allowed to go and fight the hun because they might take their voting rights away?

Yes of course I do. In the 1930s thirties fascism was very much seen as a threat to democracy. And many people volunteered to fight fascism precisely for that reason. Had the nazis been committed to democracy and elections, then I see no reason at all why Britain would have declared war on Germany. Obviously any occupation of Britain would have been rendered meaningless, if the British people were to be still allowed to choose a sovereign government.

btw, I'm not sure what you mean by : "I'd be careful about suggesting it's a good thing that Hitler got voted in" .......why would I suggest that ? 😕

my dissertation is due on the 6th. before the deadline i will be writing. after the deadline i will either be writing another essay, or getting pissed.

i doubt i will be voting...

Ah, the ****less youth of today; destined to become the moaning **** of tomorrow, blaming everyone but themselves for the nation's decline....

🙄

I think you will find that most of the people moaning on this thread are the middle-aged wingers suffering from election fallout and getting their knickers in a twist because other people dare to have a difference of opinion and chose to express that opinion.
If you really want your part of society to be a nicer place to live for the next four years, then forget about the election and try being nicer and more understanding of the people around you and be more constructive to your community.

[i]btw, I'm not sure what you mean by : "I'd be careful about suggesting it's a good thing that Hitler got voted in" .......why would I suggest that ?[/i]

I said
[i]You know Hitler was voted into power don't you?[/i]

Then you said
[i]Obviously voting makes a difference then.[/i]

Lots of people turned out to vote Hitler in.

hth.

gonefishin - Member

[i] if so, can you vote on my behalf for the Greens Party?[/i]

I'm a bit concerned by this to be honest. If you're not in the UK but entitled to vote here then why did you not register for a postal or proxy vote? Alternatively if you're not entitled to vote in UK elections, then you don't get a say and really shouldn't be asking anyone to "vote on your behalf".

As for voting Green, frankly their stance on a lot of things can be described as anti-science so there is no way I'd consider voting for them

i wasn't aware until yesterday when i picked up the Times at the station that i can vote from outside the UK via postal voting. and i am saddened by and apologise for my ignorance (i'm not taking the piss here...).

i heard a green lady on the radio the other week and she seemed a lot saner than most of the other politicians you hear talking.
when asked about the economy and how they'd rescue it, she said she'd rather see a society that puts more value on families, time spent together as a family and move away from money as an indicator of wealth. i was surprised to hear someone talking and matching my idea of a better world.