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Has anyone heard if there are any plans in the UK for the under 50’s to get another booster jab?
I’ve had some health complications this last year or two, and I’m very keen to avoid another dose if I can avoid it…
Depends on what your health complications are. Is your GP aware of them, are they heart/respiratory related, are you taking steroids etc. Worth having a conversation with the GP and asking the question, you never know, they might bung you into one of their clinics particularly if they have spare doses.
There have been some suggestions that the newest bivalent vaccine may actually help people with LC symptoms, but I'm pretty sure that is just some anecdotal observation rather than something with firm evidence.
There’s nothing anyone can do. Some regions, like mine, those in government jobs with mild symptoms were told to go into work. Gonna be a rough ride.
Hope you pull through quickly, but fascinating to hear an inside view of the situation
BN - understand your concern but the data suggests that after 5 days your ability to infect another is much, much reduced.
5 days after your first +ve you’re good to go with very low levels of virus.
It doesn’t seem like Imperial College agree with you: „In the study, two-thirds of cases were still infectious five days after their symptoms began, and one-quarter were still infectious at seven days.“
But what would they know:
https://www.imperial.ac.uk/news/239212/covid-19-long-infectious-when-safely-leave/amp/
Happy to be demonstrated wrong dude. How many days then? CBA to read it
It doesn’t seem like Imperial College agree with you:
The article which you linked doesn't really appear to contradict Del's claim that 5 days after your first +ve you’re good to go with very low levels of virus, other than to recommend using a lateral flow test:
"Based on our findings, we recommend that people with COVID-19 isolate for five days after symptoms begin, then use lateral flow tests to safely leave isolation."
Yes it says that in two-thirds of cases are still infectious five days after symptoms begin but it doesn't qualify how infectious the person is likely to be, so it is not necessarily contradicting Del's claim of "very low levels of the virus".
It does make the point:
"This is despite the levels of infectious virus people shed reducing over the course of infection."
The link also points out the NHS guidance that people should try to stay at home and avoid contact with others for just five days.
Presumably the amount of viral particles likely to be shed after 5 days isn't considered to be sufficient to be a serious risk. They presumably now have a reasonable idea of how much exposure to viral particles is needed to catch Covid.
HMG has made a risk assessment and settled on 5 days based on a variety of reasons, unless you're in contact with a person at higher risk of serious illness then it's ten days.
Ten days is also blanket advice from the WHO.
Has anyone heard if there are any plans in the UK for the under 50’s to get another booster jab?
I booked mine on the NHS online service at the same time I booked my flu jab. Had both jabs at same time too, and the vaccination centre I went to was taking walk-ins also. Worth trying the online route, though I've no idea if things in the 'background' are localised other than the flu/CV vaccination centres.
I'd managed to avoid it up until this week. Worked shelf stacking all through the Pandemic without a problem . Been retired a year now , went out for a meal with friends last Saturday, started to feel rough Monday , couple mates who were at the meal posted positive results on What's app Tuesday. I thought better do a test sure enough bam ! 🙄Wife tested positive yesterday another at the meal positive this morning.
Amazing how it spreads considering we've all been jabbed to oblivion and beyond . Personally I had my best night's sleep of the week last night and am feeling a lot better. I know I'm at the tricky stage where knowing me I'm likely to start overdoing it 🙄 My timeline seems to fit with the local surgery saying most cases currently are lasting around 48 hours .
The article which you linked doesn’t really appear to contradict Del’s claim that 5 days after your first +ve you’re good to go
Really?
„In the study, two-thirds of cases were still infectious five days after their symptoms began“
So Del says you are „good to go“ after 5 days but IC says 2/3rds of people are still infectious - I think most people would consider still infectious as not „good to go“. Unless of course you don’t care about infecting other people with Covid.
Also IC specifically say use LFTs after the 5 days to find out when you are not infectious. Again, contradicting „good to go“.
So Del says you are „good to go“ after 5 days but IC says 2/3rds of people are still infectious – I think most people would consider still infectious as not „good to go“. Unless of course you don’t care about infecting other people with Covid.
There is very little difference between what that article says and what Del claimed.
Del said "after 5 days your ability to infect another is much, much reduced", which appears to be what the article also says.
The article also points out that the NHS advice is that after 5 days it is okay to come out of isolation, which is no different to what Del suggested.
Just because you might still be shedding viral particles after 5 day, therefore testing positive, doesn't mean that you are posing a realistic risk of passing on the virus.
My understanding is that it takes more than a few dozen viral particles to infect someone. I don't know how much for Covid but I believe that it is several hundred particles for other coronaviruses, and several thousands for MERS.
Unless of course you don’t care about infecting other people with Covid.
It isn't about not caring it is about a realistic approach to a virus which is now extremely common and has affected millions of people, not a rare controllable virus. A zero covid policy is not feasible.
Exceptions obviously need to made for highly vulnerable people but that isn't simply in relation to Covid.
Edit: You didn't answer Del's question btw:
How many days then?
They presumably now have a reasonable idea of how much exposure to viral particles is needed to catch Covid.
I'm not sure that's true. There was a human challenge trial earlier this year where volunteers were infected by a 'single nasal droplet', but the conclusion from that seems to have been that 'not very much' exposure is enough. Presumably that changes according to how infectious that particular variant is.
I'm very much not a scientist, but I suspect a rigorous test of 'how much exposure' would be quite hard to achieve and involve exposing healthy people to a carefully metered level of the virus in a realistic setting for varying amounts of time. On top of that, different people are presumably more or less susceptible to catching the thing depending on the effectiveness of their immune system etc and you'd have to wait days to see whether people were infected or not.
I suspect 'not very much' is still the likely answer - which seems to be anecdotally supported - unless there have been actual experiments?
I suspect ‘not very much’ is still the likely answer
Yeah sure, but what is 'not very much'? I pointed out that the minimum infectious dose for other coronaviruses is apparently several hundred particles, that doesn't sound very much when you consider how many particles can be released in just one cough.
The question is how much viral particles are the two-thirds of people who still have detectable levels of Covid 5 days after first symptoms releasing?
Del said “after 5 days your ability to infect another is much, much reduced”, who is disputing that? The article isn't.
And Del's suggestion is is in line with NHS advice so why not accept it?
Although you could say "But what would they know", as J-R did.
Before we catch and develop the virus we get 'infected' - by that I mean come into contact with the virus. But then we have lines of defence, like mucus, nasal hairs, etc., before we then get to the virus getting a foothold and starting to multiply. So simply coming into contact with the virus even at significant levels doesn't mean you develop the disease, it might not gain a foothold in sufficient volume.
Amazing how it spreads considering we’ve all been jabbed to oblivion and beyond .
Then there's the effect of the vaccines and past exposures, that mean the immune system can start to fight the infection. In football terms, it might not win and keep a clean sheet, but it can significantly mitigate the effects and reduce severity. So that it is still spreading is not necessarily the point, it's the comparison of infections to hospitalizations to deaths that is now massively different than at the height of the pandemic.
Of course, it can be argued that each new infection is a chance for a new escape variant, which is also true. But a proper virologist needs to comment on whether that is still a major concern (or indeed if there is a tendency to mutate to more virulaent but less severe - the hypothesis that the virus replicants that enable it to spread better will be more favoured than those that don't allow their host to keep on spreading, etc.)
The “tendency to mutate to be less severe” hope has never made much sense with this virus, what advantage would it gain from that? Luck may get us there, but selection will not. Recent variants have mutated back to being as “severe” as original strain after we had some that were less severe. So can go either way. Of course most of us have far more protection, so the effects of these “more severe” variants are far “less severe” on the better protected population. And no variant has been “more severed” than original.
I finally got COVID this week after managing to avoid the sodding thing. Felt really ropey Friday but tested negative. The Mrs is recovering from Cancer so she got symptoms on Tuesday. Both tested and both positive. The Mrs has been given a load of antiviral drugs to help.
Both feeling a bit better today but my head feels woolly. Folk have been talking about brain fog, I hope i don't suffer from that as I'm slow enough as it is.
The NHS is just amazing, the care the Mrs has received has been superb.
Glad your other half is being so well looked after.
....what advantage would it gain from that? Luck may get us there, but selection will not.
I believe that by becoming less severe the advantage for the virus is that it becomes even more successful in spreading, in comparison to more severe strains. This has been suggested as a reason for omicron's phenomenal success.
Indeed it is apparently precisely because covid is so mild in most cases that it has been so successful. Often people are unaware that they have it as they walk around spreading it because the symptoms are so mild.
As I understand it one of the reasons influenza is considerably less successful than the common cold is because of the tendency of people to self-isolate when they are at their most infectious with it - no one wants to go to work or the cinema etc when they have full blown flu.
Apparently apart from low levels of immunity the principal reason that Spanish flu spread so phenomenally a hundred years ago was because it did the reverse of what flu usually does - it actually increased people's likelihood of traveling and therefore spreading it.
Spanish flu affected millions of soldiers on the front lines of WW1, as a consequence because they were too ill to fight they moved back from the front lines thereby spreading it further.
Then when WW1 ended millions of men moved across Europe and North American back to their communities spreading it even further in a very short period of time.
My mate is meant to be spending Christmas with me and the family. She was round at her brothers yesterday, he had been feeling rough for 10 or so days yet hadn’t even tested. Sure enough, after inviting her round it transpired he has covid. Absolute idiocy
So if he’s still feeling ill, with a faint line on the test, how likely is it he’s still infectious after 10 or so days? Obviously she’s not keen on coming round if she is likely to have caught it from him
I've just tested before going to my sister's for Christmas. Negative - not sure how much difference it'll make given that her family have all had winter cough/cold/flu of death... 🙄
I booked mine on the NHS online service at the same time I booked my flu jab. Had both jabs at same time too, and the vaccination centre I went to was taking walk-ins also
Mine wasn't having any of that. Not 50 or over = sod off. I did get my flu jab though.
So if he’s still feeling ill, with a faint line on the test, how likely is it he’s still infectious after 10 or so days?
If he still has symptoms quite likely I believe, unless the only symptoms are a cough and/or loss of sense of smell.
Temperature definitely a no-no
1st ever dose for me. Pretty sure I caught it from my boss who was pretty poorly last week, but because he doesn't like his family decided to come in to the office and share it around. 2 of us have now got it just in time for Xmas. Utter ****
My symptoms are strange. Sometimes I feel absolutely fine, sometimes I feel like someone's standing on my chest after playing 2 games of football back to back because I hurt so much. Sometimes even my hair hurts. Weird!
Anyone watching the cases rushing through China? There a ominous deja Vu feeling about it but hopefully the world is a bit more prepared.
Been feeling progressively worse over the last 48 hours. A bit achey and a bit of a cough. Had a shite nights sleep and tried to spew up bile first thing so decided to take a test… Feint line appeared in minutes… pretty dark after 5… nothing too awful at present (but I’ve had to cancel my family get together later in the week, the first ‘normal’ festive in 3 years). Hey ho. I was looking forwards to that as I actually get on really well with most of my family (and they seem to like me!).
First time Covid for me, don’t where I picked it up as I am pretty much a hermit and not really done anything different from the last 2.5 years.
Finally cought up with me,only a matter of time for us all I guess
Here we go again! Third time lucky for me. I should count myself lucky to get the hat trick, really. A bit annoying, as I just got over a heavy cold that had me off work for a week.
I'm guessing this may be the pattern of it now? As well as the usual cold going round, there'll be a new covid mutation to catch too?
Luckily I've had 3x vaccines, and everything is pretty mild so far. Still working pretty much, just not seeing patients face to face, obvs
there’ll be a new covid mutation to catch too?
Well the Chinese have opened the borders floodgates, I can't see how this is deemed responsible. Several countries are imposing restrictions upon Chinese arrivals. A bit like late 2019, it'll probably be about 4 months before the UK does.
4th time with Covid for me this week (3rd time in the last 6 months). Positive test again yesterday after feeling a bit odd, although I don't feel that bad and it's felt different every time I've had it. This time around I feel largely OK, but with very sore itchy eyes, like mega bad hayfever! Chest hurts and a bit of a cough but nothing too bad. I've had all the jabs etc so I just get on with it. The itchy/sore eyes thing though is definitely odd. I only took the test after a friend tested positive and also had the sore eyes thing.
Several countries are imposing restrictions upon Chinese arrivals
It hadn't clicked with me that they still had to unlock foreign travel. I've got mixed feelings, everyone has to move past the "zero covid/no travel" mindset, and I wouldn't want ordinary Chinese people being singled out and potentially abused as they were the first time round.
That said, allowing potentially thousands of people to travel again during China's biggest wave does seem a potential risk, as shown the first time round.
Wiser heads than mine will be making those judgements. Hopefully.
One worrying aspect of the Chinese situation, with most controls lifted and mass infections well underway, is that this will generate a huge round of continuing infection and re-infection, providing the virus with maybe as many as @1bn fresh opportunities to mutate into a more dangerous form, be it, more infectious, more damaging, better at avoiding vaccines, more inclined to long covid, etc... Every infection and multiplication of virus is an open door opportunity for a nasty bug like this, which seems to have many tricks up its metaphorical sleeve. Joy...
Several countries are imposing restrictions upon Chinese arrivals
Part of this is to manage the virus, part of this is geopolitical gamesmanship
I'm assuming I've caught the pox for the 2nd time in about 4 months over the Christmas week. Cold-like symptoms for several days, but not feeling completely flattened fortunately. I've not tested at all, as we're away in a holiday let and brought no tests with us, but my one brother has had v similar symptoms and tested positive a couple of times. We were both at a funeral last week. That said, brother no 2 was also there, has had similar snottyness etc too, and hasn't tested positive. So who knows?
I also have some sort of cold/flu thing going on. Testing -ve though, so there's more than Covid around.
^Might be your age @scotroutes after your subsidised efforts!I understand houns is feeling fine.
The chinese government will only ever do what's in their collectiveXi's self interest; any notion of them being responsible or global good citizens is for the birds.
Only a few countries have announced intentions to impose tighter control over chinese arrivals - notably the US and Italy requiring proof of negative test.
Before his announcement, flights arriving in Milan were already testing passengers flying from China.
On one flight, which landed at the city's Malpensa Airport on 26 December, 52% of passengers were found to be positive for Covid, la Repubblica reports.
The Italian government have clearly learned from 2019.
How long before steve barclay announces that the UK is '...monitoring the situation'?
The UK is, potentially, sleepwalking - again - into a medical crisis.
The UK is, potentially, sleepwalking – again – into a medical crisis.
We're already in a medical crisis.
To be more specific - another covid crisis.
I accidentally clicked on the title and went back to the first page just now
So here’s a thought, does the unprecedented lockdown of almost 50 million people suggest that this outbreak is much worse than China and the WHO are letting on, or are they overreacting?
still seems relevant today, whereas
the disaster fappers will be here shortly…you can guess who.
hasn't aged quite so well.
I wonder how little notice the UK gov have taken of the report that 52% of passengers on a flight from China to Milan tested positive when they arrived on Dec 26th.
There is no reason to assume the same does not apply to flights from China to the UK.
No, I'm not a disaster fapper - just a realist.
For some context. way back when in the mists of time, there were multiple Covid threads and some fairly wild end of days views being put forward.
But yeah. Not my best work.
I wonder how little notice the UK gov have taken of the report that 52% of passengers on a flight from China to Milan tested positive when they arrived on Dec 26th.
There is no reason to assume the same does not apply to flights from China to the UK.
No, I’m not a disaster fapper – just a realist.
A plane carries around 300 passengers. so 52% are covid positive - so thats about 150. They get off at Heathrow and wander into London and join the approx 200,000 people who'll currently be covid positive and not subject to any meaningful restrictions or monitoring in that city, or travel more widely amongst the 1.7million currently positive in the UK as a whole. Whats meaningful difference would those 150 people make? other than maybe being seen to be more diligent about wearing their masks?
One worrying aspect of the Chinese situation, with most controls lifted and mass infections well underway, is that this will generate a huge round of continuing infection and re-infection, providing the virus with maybe as many as @1bn fresh opportunities to mutate into a more dangerous form
A bit like Kent then 🙂
Whats meaningful difference would those 150 people make?
The current situation in China is likely to give us a new variant of concern. Trusting the authorities there to find and share information early on such a variant isn’t a wise move. Testing people coming from China (and doing further tests such as genomic sequencing on + cases) seems a proportionate response.
A bit like Kent then
Well, the numbers are “a bit” different, but, well, yes.
So how many multiples of 150 covid carriers should be allowed free and uncontrolled access into the UK?
Are any carrying a new variant?
A plane carries around 300 passengers. so 52% are covid positive
If it was 1 plane arriving as a one-off, then yeah, whatever, but how many planes arrive to the UK / one's country of residence from China every day?
I expect if any UK resrictions come about, they will come into effect too late to prevent returning uni students arriving here for the new term starting around 9th Jan.