The Coronavirus Discussion Thread.

Don't confuse the fact the media have moved on, with it being over.

You were the weird one. It’s over and has been for a long time.

Complacency is not your friend given the way viral infections evolve over time. There's background infection ongoing which may cause the virus to evolve to a form that can spread and infect the vaccinated 433 died of it in the last week (source) and just under 19400 tested positive. That's a sizeable reservoir of viral talent. Ongoing caution may still be appropriate.

You were the weird one.

I am the cautious one, being married to a severely immunosuppressed wife.

Keep that argument up and you'll never wear a seatbelt, helmet, pads or wash your hands.

It’s over and has been for a long time.

While the press have moved on, and the overall numbers are down, like all all forms of flu, it's kicking around. Currently in my son's halls of residence, seems half of them have come down with it, my son included.

I also had hospital appointment yesterday, and they were being very fussy about washing hands and mask wearing.
Posed an issue when they gave me a cuppa and biscuit after the treatment...

Everyone was masked up at the vaccination clinic on Monday.

Oh - other than the sore arm, I seem to have escaped any side-effects. Having said that, I ran a seasons-best 10km on Monday night so I'm considering going back for more.

Well certainly at Stepping Hill Hospital eye clinic and my local vaccination centre in Stockport masks are still required.

Common Covid myths busted... https://theconversation.com/six-common-covid-myths-busted-by-a-virologist-and-a-public-health-expert-188396

A bit of research pertinent to family_oab with an immunocompromised person in the household. The evidence for a vulnerable group is clear - a combination of shielding and vaccination has saved a huge number of lives.

By April 2022, only 23% of individuals with immunodeficiency had suffered one or more SARS-CoV-2 infections, compared to over 71% of the general population. This large discrepancy is likely due to the community continuing to shield from infection.

The peak of hospitalisations and deaths in the general population occurred in January 2021 during the alpha wave of the pandemic. In contrast, the majority of infection amongst individuals with immunodeficiency occurred over a year later during the Omicron wave. This delay meant that individuals with immunodeficiency received more vaccine doses by the time they were infected

SARS-CoV-2 vaccinations have significantly reduced hospitalisation and mortality from COVID-19 amongst patients with immunodeficiency. For example, in individuals with primary immunodeficiency, mortality has fallen from 1 in 5 at the start of the pandemic, prior to vaccination to around 1 in 33 following the deployment of vaccinations.

However, SARS-CoV-2 continues to pose immediate and significant risks to the immunodeficiency community. The Omicron variant, which has been dominant in the UK since mid-December 2021, has been mooted to cause less serious disease than previous variants of the SARS-CoV-2 virus. Yet amongst those with primary and secondary immunodeficiency, 10% of individuals infected with Omicron required hospitalisation and 2.7% of individual died compared to 2.2% of the general population requiring hospitalisation and 0.2% succumbing to COVID-19.

https://www.frontiersin.org/articles/10.3389/fimmu.2022.984376/full

Anti-vax in-laws have it again, and are apparently fairly bad with it, but not hospital bad. Not sure if it's their 3rd or 4th time. Apparently there're around 200 kids off with it at their sons school! Peterborough.

Protection by having it doesn't seem to be working for them, meanwhile (touch wood), our fully boosted family haven't knowingly had it yet, and that's with my wife testing atleast weekly for work.

The little hospital where I used to work all staff are still wearing masks.  I cannot believe there are healthcare settings where they are not.

I see Twitter has relaxed its rules on accounts spreading Covid misinformation. Ffs. Yay for that.

I've got it again. Last time was two years ago.

Not seen anyone in an extended indoor setting other than work for the last week or so and there are people there who have openly been claiming to have seasonal sniffles. Seems lots of work places have learned nothing in that time.

I had my 4th vaccinaton last week - along with the flu vaccine. Didn't really seem to get any symptoms but I now have an itchy patch at the injection site and it's slightly raised. Anyone else experienced this? Looks like it happens in around 4% of cases.

My sister has it for the 3rd time now, the joys of having kids tht are 3 and 9. Both if their schools are reporting a decent amount of cases so it definitely isn't 'over' yet.

Amazingly I've still not had it, am expecting the get it this winter though as no booster for me.

<Slow handclap>

https://twitter.com/Helen_Whately/status/1603487876712390672

She really is as thick as she looks.

I thought we already learnt the hard way that this virus loves Xmas?

I can't believe it still was compulsory frankly. Smiles are good.

MIL's old care home is rampant with Covid at the moment and folk have died. MIL passed 6 months ago though (respiratory issues some weeks after Covid).

Of course. Living to see next Christmas is often appreciated though.

From the above link:

Guidance on the use of face masks in all care settings and on outbreaks in care homes has been updated to give settings the flexibility to ensure ongoing COVID-19 measures are proportionate.

From Thursday 15 December, providers can make risk-based decisions on when face masks are used, and care homes can initiate their own outbreak risk assessments to make decisions about which outbreak measures make sense for their individual settings. Decisions around masks will be based on factors like the risk to specific individuals, if the setting is in an outbreak or the preferences of the individual receiving care. Support remains available from health protection teams and other local partners for care homes when needed.

It all sounds perfectly reasonable to me but I am not an epidemiologist, so if it isn't perhaps someone who is an expert can explain the problem of allowing care homes to do their own risk assessment?

What is wrong with a care home where all the residents have been fully vaccinated and boosted allowing visitors without symptoms not to wear face coverings.

Or a care home resident who 2 weeks previously fully recovered from Covid hugging their unmasked daughter?

I don't understand why one rule fits all situations is the correct approach when it is clear that an endless variety of situations is likely to exist.

TiRed earlier on this thread suggested that typically we might come in contact with a specific coronavirus perhaps once every two years, which is why topping up your immunity with constant low-level exposure is unlikely, do we really need to apply universal and immovable strict rules without realistic risk assessments?

Elderly and frail people have always been prone to infections from staff and visitors, why weren't face coverings a statutory obligation before covid?

Avoid the quick tests sold in Morrisons (and some pharmacies), made by Getein Biotech. They might not actually be fake - although I wouldn't be surprised if they were - but are such poor quality they might as well be.

The paper strip doesn't absorb the buffer solution. Tried 6 of them, with different people, from different sources. Even dismantling the test cartridge and dipping the strip directly into the solution fails to register any kind of result.

Stick to the Flowflex ones sold in Boots, they're leagues ahead in terms of quality and reliability.

My mother died of COVID in a care home 10 days ago. It's not over. In the last year I think her care home had made entirely sensible choices about their mask policies based on the situation, and we had been able to visit her unmasked for most of the year.

(No need for condolences, her dementia had got to the point where her passing was a blessing. In the last two or three months the last embers of who she was had gone out. It was time.)

What is wrong with a care home where all the residents have been fully vaccinated and boosted allowing visitors without symptoms not to wear face coverings.

This is primarily about whether care staff moving between many different residents (or caring for many different people in their own homes) should wear masks while working. Visitors have been able to be with residents mask free, with other mitigations, for a while now.

Human tragedy on a vast scale unfolding in China. It's a reminder of how dangerous a virus it remains in a sub-optimally vaccinated and vulnerable population.

https://twitter.com/DrEricDing/status/1604748747640119296

We will undoubtedly feel the effects of this, economically given the likely chaos in China, and perhaps in terms of new variants emerging from hundreds of millions of new hosts.

They are in a better position than we were for our first few big waves. The numbers who are hit hard, or unfortunately die, may well be huge, but that's in absolute terms (China is obviously a hugely populous country). In percentage terms this shouldn't be nearly as disastrous as 2020/21 was here.

At this point, it depends on how many sick people their health system can deal with at a single moment. They are speculating about doubling times measured in hours. If the Chinese health system is overwhelmed by one absolutely ginormous spike over a couple of weeks, then excess deaths will be far worse than ours.

Its quite concerning we might have another wave here, in fact it's fairly certain is it not? Roughly calculate from the Travelling Tabby site, we seen a rise of 2%, 5% then 10% over the last three weeks.

And its bang in "peak" respiratory season.

It is not unreasonable to assume that large Chinese cities will soon look like Hong Kong did with Omicron. Relatively low vaccination rates in the elderly and less effective vaccines in the general population mean that there will be a large wave of morbidity and mortality. That is a wave of ordinary people suffering and dying. Hopefully some of the effective treatments will be used to help blunt the mortality. I think we will see a realisation of what might have been, had we not taken lockdown steps in the absence of ANY vaccination or treatments.

For the record, there is only limited evidence that Omicron in otherwise naive subjects is less virulent than Wuhan. It has a propensity for upper respiratory tract, but the experiment in a much more naive population is currently ongoing 🙁

China have trebled the vaccination rate among the elderly since March. Boosters have been made available at 3 rather than 6 months for the older population as well, to offer as much protection as possible. They are far more ready for this now than they were then, and we were back in 20/21. Vaccine take up levels surpass those is in the USA in all age groups. Yes, hospital rates are going to be very worrying, but many seeking care will be offered a great deal of protection from serious illness by their vaccines, and are being met with a medical system backed with more knowledge and more tools available to them then we could have dreamed of here two years ago. Yes, the numbers are ******* scary, but people are not facing the same odds that we were back in 20/21.

Its quite concerning we might have another wave here, in fact it’s fairly certain is it not?

We're already in it, it's just that the flu wave is currently worse and COVID isn't sexy for the media anymore.

We've just been told we don't need to wear masks anymore (wearing since July 21) in my NHS lab which is bizarre given the higher risk now of infection than there was in the summer

ONS COVID survey is now a lagging indicator (since the dashboard for admissions is updated daily), but shows the next BQ.1.1 wave. Vaccine and antibody escape by BQ.1.1 is demonstrated by in vitro data (lots of papers e.g. https://www.medrxiv.org/content/10.1101/2022.12.06.22283000v1). I still think protection against morbidity will be shown, but some of this will be from the bivalent booster and more from past infections by Omicron in the spring.

Virtually ever teenager or working adult I know over here in China, if they got a booster, had their last vaccination 12+ months ago. Mine was 8+ months ago.

Inactivated versions that may be offering minor protection to those infected with the virus so long after the last jab. We can't just roll up to a pop-up booster centre and get one. All the students I know were denied one, even though their last one was 12+ months ago.

Also, loads of people i know simply refused to get boosters. That included supposedly educated persons. In the West it's normally those in low income jobs who fell victim to the conspiracies. But with all the conspiracy theory rubbish that spread on the net here, I guess trust in the government is actually low judging by the poor response to vaccination drives.

This Omicron variant is weaker, but the population number, how they live, and some other factors mean that the numbers of deaths could be in the millions. Luckily they've managed to stop counting them so no can get upset /s.

Be nice if the pharmacies had prevented people hoarding OTC drugs as soon as pandora's box was opened. The best thing I've found to help deal with the fever and body pains is a hot toddy. Paracetamol isn't working, and I can't use ibobrufen. Sleeping more than usual to reduce the number of hours I'm awake and in pain also helps.

Jeezus that's a bleak update mrdestructo. Sorry to read that.

I am assuming that you are currently suffering from Covid? Hope you make a speedy recovery. And make your hot toddy without whisky - alcohol won't boost your immune system!

Its quite concerning we might have another wave here, in fact it’s fairly certain is it not?

We’re already in it, it’s just that the flu wave is currently worse and COVID isn’t sexy for the media anymore.

We’ve just been told we don’t need to wear masks anymore (wearing since July 21) in my NHS lab which is bizarre given the higher risk now of infection than there was in the summer

Tested positive on Sunday. I’m doubled boosted, so symptoms are very mild. I’ve managed to avoid it up until now. Probably caught on work night out last Thursday, that I didn’t really want to go to anyway 🤬

I may have had it last week. Thought I had a heavy cold and cough but a friend contacted me to say she and her dad had both tested positive. We had all been sitting together at a concert the weekend before. I did 3 tests and all failed. Odd, I did loads of tests last year and they always worked OK. Anyway I'm fine today so it's anyone's guess whether it actually was Covid.

Friend and dad are feeling better, neither of our partners have shown any symptoms.

I’ve got it at last, double jabbed and it’s horrible - I don’t usually get colds/bugs either. Four days in and still testing positive, so looks this will be a third Christmas without seeing Dad - can’t believe it.

@bearnecessities - that's really shit timing for you. Hope you recover in time for part of the festive season at least.

Cheers matey 🙂

5 days after your first +ve you're good to go with very low levels of virus. It's possible to test +ve for a long time after actually being contagious.

Has anyone heard if there are any plans in the UK for the under 50's to get another booster jab?

I've had some health complications this last year or two, and I'm very keen to avoid another dose if I can avoid it...

friendly reminder that masks don't work and neither do the jabs.

Feel free to post your medical and/or scientific qualifications to back up your assertion.

I'm on Day Six and each day I seem to have had a different collection of symptoms. 3 jabs of sinopharm/vac or whatever I got and I guess it prevented serious issues.

I am drinking portioned whisky because on day one of the announcement people hit the pharmacies and cleared the shelves of anything colds/flu related. There's nothing left. There was a news conference today where they mentioned low stocks. Zero stocks more like! I gave a few neighbours some stuff I can't take myself, and have some paracetamol I may have to stretch into the future. They won't even allow family to post us some in. Only licensed importers can bring it in.

Thw state pension burden in China is going to be a bit reduced before the end of next year. Already two of my coworkers lost a parent. Expat surveys suggest 55% infected. Some conversations between nationals hint to 80-90% infection in some cities. There's nothing anyone can do. Some regions, like mine, those in government jobs with mild symptoms were told to go into work. Gonna be a rough ride.

5 days after your first +ve you’re good to go with very low levels of virus. It’s possible to test +ve for a long time after actually being contagious.

Easier said than done! I'm still testing positive this morning (symptoms started Saturday), but whether I'm contagious or not is a lot easier to think "yeah I'm fine" if deciding to go shopping for crisps, versus risk of passing this horrible crap onto your 77 year old Dad that's not got any family around him.

(and for the record I've done neither, but I'm also running dangerously low on crisps)