To the folk higher up this thread/ page asking about lft testing post infection.
The guidance from our health protection team is (this changes regularly, in October my instructions from them were infection then no lfts for 90 days):
You get covid, you do your lfts until neg.
Then you stop testing for 28 days.
PCRs are:
Infection -> No testing for 90 days.
HTH
Not sure how relevant this is in my sample size of one, but of the three different lateral flow tests here, only the ones made by SureScreen (purple and white box) will show a second line.
How that works going forward, if people are getting reinfected within a few months, I don’t know.
Our school has already had reinfections of people that were infected late last year. Symptomatic and backed up by PCR.
Then there's also the requirement to do seven days of lateral flows to avoid isolation as a vaccinated close contact. Like in a classroom.
It doesn't seem to have an "exemption clause" for previously infected.
It's getting a bit Matt Lucas again.
But with Boris just shouting Jimmy Saville in between the waffle.
Johnson joking in PMQs about measures to increase ventilation in schools in Scotland...
🤷🏻
End of the month sees the end of self isolation.
Who will still be isolating if positive? Guessing most on here probably will
End of the month sees the end of self isolation.
Well, the PM has spoken of his "intention" to bring it forward to the end of the month. Let's wait and see. Gives us all something to talk about while he's away on holiday, anyway.
The UK generally does seem to have accepted 250+ deaths a day as "living with" the virus. Hopefully that figure will have dropped by the time the decision of when to end self isolation is actually taken (rather than just briefed to the media as a distraction).
The UK generally does seem to have accepted 250+ deaths a day as “living with” the virus.
It’s all reminiscent of the Private Eye, Falklands War memorial joke where there was a bust of Thatcher and the inscription “They died to save her face.”
The UK generally does seem to have accepted 250+ deaths a day as “living with” the virus.
It could be double that and create the same level of (non)concern.
The UK generally does seem to have accepted 250+ deaths a day as “living with” the virus.
Currently 4th on the list
We'd have lower deaths if we focused the same amount of resources at preventing heart attacks.
It could be double that and create the same level of (non)concern
The sad thing is you've got to draw a line somewhere. The fact is that when 600k people a year die in this country covid will add to that number but it will likely be in the noise. That is not to take away from the personal tragedy people go through.
Fortunately for everyone the anti mask, anti lockdown dickheads will find something else to bang on about, so they're still something to look forward to. 🙄
Currently 4th on the list
Those are December figures, when deaths from Covid were running at about 100 a day, not 250. We can (and should) have better public health measures targeted at more than one thing at once.
We will. Probably not with this government though, despite their fine words. 😐
Who will still be isolating if positive? Guessing most on here probably will
This puts me in an difficult possition. I'm self employed, and run a village shop, wife is immunno suppressed, also works in shop but on less hours.
The insurance for the shop will only payout for shutting the shop inline with gov guidelines. So currently, If I or my wife catch Covid, as long as the other is testing negative the shop can remain open. If we both catch it I can shut the shop and claim on insurance.
When possitive test isolation is lifted, if we both catch it - either the shop will have to shut, and we'll potentially loose a significant income and community loose the shop for a few weeks.
<span style="font-size: 0.8rem;">Or I or wife carry on working an spread Covid to the community 🤷♂️</span>
Thankful for savings I guess.
Or I or wife carry on working an spread Covid to the community
Well surely this is the idea and that everyone else will be out and about with Covid anyway.
The sad thing is you’ve got to draw a line somewhere.
Sad? Certainly realistic. If we accept that Covid 19 is with us permanently then we do have to accept a certain, inevitable, death rate, much as we do with other causes of death. The fear is, of course, that another, more deadly or debilitating strain comes along and we miss the trend before it's too late.
The fear is, of course, that another, more deadly or debilitating strain comes along and we miss the trend before it’s too late.
That's the roll of the dice the world is playing right now isn't it? (Well some countries have got zero say in the matter unfortunately and others just don't care particularly.)
I'm just hoping I don't go on the BBC webby one morning, as you do, and think "ah, sh*t"
Who will still be isolating if positive? Guessing most on here probably will
Depends what your workplace requires for many of us, I guess. If I'm ill, I won't be in work, we can work from home if not that ill, but others aren't so fortunate. Staff already asking if the attendance management trigger points will reflect that we will probably all catch it, maybe several times a year.
I'm with scotroutes, living with it sadly means some will be at risk and die of it. And a more dangerous strain knocks us all vaccines to square one
The WFH/isolating thing does also beg the question of how we should be handling other, particularly respiratory, diseases. For too long, we've suffered from the martyr type who would turn up at work regardless of how ill they are, passing it on to their colleagues. Of course, I also accept that many are in the position where they simply cannot afford to take time off.
The WFH/isolating thing does also beg the question of how we should be handling other, particularly respiratory, diseases. For too long, we’ve suffered from the martyr type who would turn up at work regardless of how ill they are, passing it on to their colleagues. Of course, I also accept that many are in the position where they simply cannot afford to take time off.
We should be learning from all this, especially where staff are able to work from home. "Presenteeism is the biggest cause of absenteeism" is how I saw it described today.
The Yammer chat at work at the moment does reveal how many people are genuinely scared of the attendance management process being used as a stick to beat them with. Though I have seen it abused by both staff and managers, to be fair.
We can (and should) have better public health measures targeted at more than one thing at once.
On the news here today was how to prepare for what might be the first real flu season for 3 years. No doubt there will be lots of anti-vax propaganda coming about how if you have both covid and flu vax you turn into a werewolf or somesuch nonsense.
Australian international border arrivals are allowed in without quarantining if fully vaccinated from 21 Feb we're told. Waiting to hear whether that will be 2 or 3 jabs...
... but my healthcare employer has said we're not allowed to return to work for 14 days unless we apply for an exemption (which includes testing negative), so i'll be staying put for a while I think.
Who will still be isolating if positive? Guessing most on here probably will
From my experience of having caught it this week I might have had a day or two off, my (police officer) wife the same. We'd almost certainly left the house for a walk if it wasn't illegal. From mine and friends experience the current variant is just like a slightly bad cold.
Yeah, that sounds really great. It's not like anyone more vulnerable than you could catch it and die like the hundreds of other people that died yesterday is it?
How melodramatic. The same applies to any type of cold or flu. Should no one ever be allowed out to walk the dog if they have the vaguest of sniffles incase they accidentally kill on old person? Half the deaths recored at the moment are actually people dying with covid not of it. The bbc said so yesterday. So it's actually less deaths than a bad flu year now. People die that is life
No doubt there will be lots of anti-vax propaganda coming about how if you have both covid and flu vax you turn into a werewolf
That would be awesome.
Half the deaths recored at the moment are actually people dying with covid not of it. The bbc said so yesterday.
Did they really?
For too long, we’ve suffered from the martyr type who would turn up at work regardless of how ill they are, passing it on to their colleagues.
Experience from my office, the two people who were constantly turning up each winter with a biweekly new case of the sniffles, turned out to be the first two in the office to get jabbed - as in they were the extra vulnerable category which meant they got to skip the age based queue.
It is absolutely a good thing that, in terms of hospital admission etc, this wave is on the way out. But this virus isn’t a cold, it’s not time for a triumphant “it’s all over”, or bravely making it clear that you don’t care about those still at risk, that their illness or death is a “price you’re willing to pay”. It’s time to open up (unless you’re in England, where nothing has looked particularly closed at all this year has it), watch for new variants, and do the easy non-disruptive stuff we can to keep those in our communities still at risk as safe as we can, and act to stop illness and deaths from rising. They’re not just numbers. We have more and more smart treatments, vaccines and knowledge available, let’s use them. Let’s also insist our governments properly prepare for future waves, of this or other viruses, so we don’t have to fall back on dumb and disruptive tools like “lockdowns” again.
Serco HR dept finally sent us all en email stating that Test and Trace is inevitably winding down.
A few sites have closed/downsized recently but March will see a lot more going.
Half the deaths recored at the moment are actually people dying with covid not of it.
Do we really still need to explain what this means?
The pandemic in the UK has pretty much been over since last july when the current strategy got implemented, Omicron just threw a spanner in the works for a bit.
Delta had already done that.
Half the deaths recored at the moment are actually people dying with covid not of it.
Do we really still need to explain what this means?
@Drac, the statement seems to be fairly self-explanatory, although I'm not sure I trust the 50% figure.
My understanding is that throughout most of the pandemic the proportion of deaths where covid was incidental, not the cause, has been low. However with the high infection rates recently that proportion has been increasing. From a quick google the last estimate I could find was 22%, which related to the week after Christmas. An important caveat on the daily death figures, the actual registrations are probably a better guide, but that data is a week or two delayed.
https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/health-60000391
From my experience of having caught it this week I might have had a day or two off, my (police officer) wife the same. We’d almost certainly left the house for a walk if it wasn’t illegal. From mine and friends experience the current variant is just like a slightly bad cold.
You're all right, yeah Jack?
200 deaths a day for the last month, in the UK.
the statement seems to be fairly self-explanatory, although I’m not sure I trust the 50% figure.
You’d think it was but for some they can’t grasp what it means. Put simply those who died with covid would likely still be alive if they hadn’t caught covid.
Not quite Drac, there are a proportion who have died from something else, and coronovirus infection was incidental. That proportion is expected to be higher now than it was when infections were lower. Death certificates will let us know how many, eventually. So there's some logical basis in a 50% estimate/guess for current deaths... but it shouldn't be used to push the "it's just like a cold" nonsense. It isn't. It is still deadly serious for many.
Yes I guess the figures could be divided into 3 groups..
1) Covid primary cause of death
2) Covid contributory cause
3) Covid incidental, not contributory to death
My understanding is that the daily death figures capture all three of those.
The death registrations on the other hand only include deaths where a doctor has listed covid on the certificate. That obviously covers (1) plus I also think includes (2).... although I'm not totally sure about that ?
What purpose would dividing out 1/2 provide? How would you do so? We know most people who die due to Covid have comorbidities. They still died because they had Covid.
I've got no particular view on this kelvin. However it was my understanding that death certificates do indeed draw a distinction between primary and contributory causes (doctor's judgement).... but was hoping that someone could confirm. And if so whether that distinction is reflected in any of the stats.
I'd feel better about the whole ending of isolation thing if:
1 It wasn't so obviously based on Boris's ongoing quest to save his job.
2 SAGE had at least been consulted regarding the decision. It seems the government hasn't gone to the trouble of having a meeting with them over the complete ending of restrictions.
Which is nice.
3 There is still no clear route I've found to get hold of anti viral drugs for my old mum if she were to need them and there must be many others in the same situation, or worse, waiting for therapies which aren't quite here yet.
How melodramatic. The same applies to any type of cold or flu. Should no one ever be allowed out to walk the dog if they have the vaguest of sniffles incase they accidentally kill on old person?
So much ironing!
No, if you would be a little more British about this rather hysterical. The point was don't take your germs into work where you stand a good chance of passing it onto someone with a vulnerable relative or friend.
This is the attitude (martyrdom complex) that caused me to work excessive hours during a flu outbreak as all but 3 of 10 were out due to someone toughing it out. It's also why I remnd my current workplace that we're a team of 4, 3FTE, and any disease will cripple the operation. Stay home, get better and then return to work, remember managers have a duty to manage Health and should be reminded of this regularly.
Yes I guess the figures could be divided into 3 groups..
1) Covid primary cause of death
2) Covid contributory cause
3) Covid incidental, not contributory to deathMy understanding is that the daily death figures capture all three of those.
Of the 1,382 deaths involving COVID-19, 77.4% (1,070 deaths) had this recorded as the underlying cause of death in Week 2
Thats your answer to 1
3 will be negligible, so 2 is your balance
3 will be negligible
would it?
if one in 19* has covid, 1/3 are assymptomatic**, half of those have no compulsion or wish to test*** regularly and thus are going about their business normally - thats over half a million people on this island who might be hit by a bus or have a heart attack or any number of things.
Drac, or one of our resident doctors - whats the procedure for covid testing a patient en-route to the emergency room or one who is dead at the scene?
*heard this one recently
**fairly well accepted now
***total guess based on people I know
From the page linked above:
Coronavirus (COVID-19) deaths are those deaths registered in England and Wales in the stated week where COVID-19 was mentioned on the death certificate. A doctor can certify the involvement of COVID-19 based on symptoms and clinical findings – a positive test result is not required. Definitions of COVID-19 for deaths in Scotland and Northern Ireland are similar to England and Wales
So based on this wording I would understand the 77% figure to cover cases where covid was judged by the doctor to either be primary or contributory cause (1 and 2 in my list). With the other 23% being cases where covid was incidental (i.e. #3 isn't negligible)
assymptomatic
You've spelt that wrong. It's arseymptomatic.
Leave the doctors to it. People are dying of Covid, and it won't be recorded otherwise by mistake in any meaningful numbers. They're not being hit by buses and then having Covid listed as a cause of death on their death certificates.
. duuhh
Drac, or one of our resident doctors – whats the procedure for covid testing a patient en-route to the emergency room or one who is dead at the scene?
None we don’t test and don’t test the dead at the scene.