Why would you take your 5yr old for a jab?
Really, why?
Because she's probably not old enough to go on her own?
Kids don’t need this vax
You're making a lot of bold statements here and you sound quite cross about it. Can you evidence any of your claims? Because
I can judge peoples reaction to events and give my opinion at will. As can you.
Is both correct and irrelevant. No-one cares about your opinion (or mine).
You may be right that kids don't need this vaccination but you need to explain why if you want your opinion to be taken seriously.
I'm back! What did I miss?!
Why would you take your 5yr old for a jab?
Really, why?
Oh wow ok. A combination of factors really - can't really be bothered to explain, but on-balance, we decided to get her vaccinated.
The whole thing was very slick, they'd obviously taken lots of advice from paediatric nurses - plenty of stickers given, mickey mouse facemasks, colouring-in etc etc. Having said that, we were in/out in about 6 minutes.
Batfink Jnr was completely cool with it - she (a 5 year old) was telling me all about vaccines and antibodies in the car on the way there. She had a bit of a wobble when she saw the needle, but I didn't even have to deploy the freddo in the end. However, a promise of ice cream was made and kept.
If you haven’t worked out that Oz has gone batshit mental, then you are probably batshit mental too.
hahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahaha...... no.
I typed a big response, but thought better of it. All I will say is that Australia's response has more examples of how to do the right thing, at the right time, executed well - than almost any other country. Conversely, the UK is all the way down the other end of the table. I expect it's hard to hear - but the rest of the world have been pointing at the UK (and the US) throughout saying "well, at least we're not **** ing-up THAT badly".
So..... yeah, nah
Glad it went smoothly.
Managed to get my two in just now, thanks to a couple of no-shows.
For the younger one we used the universal pain comparator of "not as bad as a bike crash" followed by "have a free Chuppa Chupp" and before I knew it I was listening to what great Lego set his pocket money is being spent on.
Good news! Our local pharmacy has been doing them, but vaccine supply has been a bit patchy, so we ended up booking into the main Sydney hub.
For the younger one we used the universal pain comparator of “not as bad as a bike crash”
Yes - she stood on a bee in the garden a couple of weeks ago - that is now her benchmark: "will it feel like that one-time I stood on a bee?"
Conversely, the UK is all the way down the other end of the table. I expect it’s hard to hear – but the rest of the world have been pointing at the UK (and the US) throughout saying “well, at least we’re not **** ing-up THAT badly”.
Hard to hear but oh so true.😐
Sorry to "at" you @TiRed but is there any reason at all that variants stemming from the huge infection rates omicron is giving rise to are likely to be milder or worse than omicron? Vaccine evasion etc?
Or is it roll a dice and hope for the best basically?
I’ll back up the fact the UK’s in the shitter with my 5am positive LatFlow. #winning
Guess it’s time to complete YouTube/Netflix/Disney
O/T, do they also use Freddo’s as an inflation indicator in Australia too?
Sorry to “at” you @TiRed but is there any reason at all that variants stemming from the huge infection rates omicron is giving rise to are likely to be milder or worse than omicron? Vaccine evasion etc?
My understanding is that there is significant selection pressure to be more transmissible, but the belief that being a milder form of the disease conveys a selection advantage is basically wishful thinking - I don't think a reduced severity of symptoms would significantly advantage a strain in real terms. I suppose it hypothetically could, on the basis that you might not know you have it and continue to be a super-spreader for longer, but I think the existing infectious-but-non-symptomatic period provides that advantage anyway.
*waits anxiously for TiRed to tell me I'm talking out my arse*
O/T, do they also use Freddo’s as an inflation indicator in Australia too?
I've never heard them used in that way - but I suspect that they probably are.
My kids are obsessed with Pavlova and Endamame beans at the moment - only because they are the subject of a Bluey episode that they find hilarious and insist on watching on repeat.
So O/T now ... but most of the forum is asleep so this is like late night radio.
I think the Freddo inflation thing was started by a UK facebook post ... the Australian CPI basket seems to be secret, although it does include a 'cakes and biscuits' portion!
My kids just worked out that Bluey's school is just down the road from us. A pretty exciting discovery.
Imagine my kids disappointment when arriving on holiday last week to "Blueys beach" only to find that it was named after the stinging jellyfish, rather than the cartoon dog.
but the belief that being a milder form of the disease conveys a selection advantage is basically wishful thinking
The virus isn't intelligent but humans are. Milder forms won't result in the same societal measures as more dangerous forms, if a strain with 90% mortality had appeared it wouldn't have done very well. Omicron is being let run because it's not as deadly.
Ah yet more tired and emotional night time posts from the usual suspect 🙄
My kids are obsessed with Pavlova and Endamame beans at the moment
Edamame beans, nom nom nom. 🙂
They both understand the concept that it will reduce the risk of them passing the virus to more vulnerable members of the population.
Not a good enough reason on its own to give kids a vaccine.
Kids don’t need this vax
I'm going to imagine a world in which someone who's spent a considerable amount of time studying this shit has done the sums and figured out that the protection offered from vaccination beats that gained from contracting the virus, or virus + vaccination offers better protection again, and that protection is better than natural exposure aka 'doing it the old fashioned way' and so they're getting a headstart on protection from a virus that at some point they will need.
They have balanced that against the risks from this vaccination in particular and vaccinations in general and decided that it would be better for kids to have it rather than not.
Then I expect they've had to show their workings out to a whole bunch of other people who have also spent a considerable amount of their lives studying this shit, who've then gone over the numbers very carefully, and agreed with them and each other that, on balance, vaccinating kids is the right thing to do.
You're welcome to play your hunch against the accumulated knowledge directed at the problem and what I imagine is a very rigourous process the details of which are very likely in the public domain. That is your right. I hope for both you and your kids that things work out.
It's a bit beyond me why you'd submit them to one approved vaccination but wouldn't submit them to another but I'm sure you've looked in to it very carefully.
OK, I'll stick my head above the parapet. I suspect when the time comes for 5-12s our kids will have the vaccine.... but I have to admit to having slight reservations about it. Which hopefully isn't too controversial, as far as I know JCVI are still on the fence about risk-benefit for that age group. Another consideration is that by then most kids will have probably had the real thing at least once.
EDIT - for context, I'm fully vaccinated, kids have all their normal childhood jabs
Which hopefully isn’t too controversial
Not at all, you considerations are objective.
1/5th of pupils are absent from Madame's school this week, anecdoteally the unvaccinated seem to have more severe cases but all have made full recoveries within a couple of weeks so far.
They have balanced that against the risks from this vaccination in particular and vaccinations in general and decided that it would be better for kids to have it rather than not.
@Del I don't believe this is the correct for the U12s in the UK, not yet anyway? See below for the latest JCVI statement.
No, not controversial at all - we certainly weighed up the pro’s/cons. We have somebody in our family that is very heavily immunosuppressed - that was a significant factor.
Thanks Paulo. I have no skin in the game. It's clearly pretty finely balanced. Edited to add that I also understand why you'd have reservations.
As Ed reports regarding France I know in the UK from my partner that this thing is still running rife in primary age kids. My partner had 4 classes that had got the 10% infected threshold so those classes had to be kept separated from the rest of the school. Staffing and logistical nightmare.
Not a good enough reason on its own to give kids a vaccine.
F*** the vulnerable, right? I hear ya.
Pondo - there are 2 sides to this. For the vaccine to be approved in kids, it must have benefits purely for them.
when it comes to deciding whether to vaccinate your own kids, the societal benefit comes into that decision.
My kids are older, and are as vaccinated as they can be.
For the vaccine to be approved in kids, it must have benefits purely for them.
Do you consider that an absolute for all vaccines, or just those related to Covid?
Have you determined that the vaccines for Covid aren't beneficial "purely" for the kids receiving them at all, or just that there is not enough of a benefit? What's the threshold?
Pondo – there are 2 sides to this. For the vaccine to be approved in kids, it must have benefits purely for them.
I think (and I admit I have only a shallow grasp on this) that that was the nub of the JCVI's "on balance, the benefits of vaccinating children outweigh the risks by so little that we're not going to mandate it" statement, which of course became "well, the JCVI have recommended against it" in certain social media circles. AIUI, their statement made it clear that their decision solely rested on the individual child and not the broader societal impacts.
Do you consider that an absolute for all vaccines, or just those related to Covid?
My understanding from earlier discussions on the thread are that it is the key factor in any vaccine, especially for kids? The benefits to them as individuals must outweigh the risks.
Edit - what pondo said!
Kids receive vaccines that are required to protect other people who have not even been born yet, and do little to benefit the kids themselves "purely". If we decide that childhood vaccination must significantly protect/benefit the recipient directly (again what's the threshold), then there's a whole load we can stop giving to kids. Vaccination programmes always take the effect at the societal level into account. Risk at the individual level is key though... which is why so many countries took longer, and wanted more evidence, before moving to childhood vaccinations for this virus (and rightly so).
Myocarditis isn’t real? OK, believe that, I’ll believe it is
It’s very real. Sadly as a young child’s parents found out recently. I had to do the welfare support for the staff who went to that death. 😟
How you (and they) do your job, I'll never understand. But thank *insert deity if you have one* you all do. Thank you again.
Latest ONS infection survey data published today shows that the ONLY age group in which infections are increasing is the unvaccinated school-age children (Age 2 to School Year 6). Up to 8% prevalence from 7.3%. Vaccination is a means of controlling this spread and other countries will most likely show differences in due course. The UK has chosen to allow the natural infection experiment in these children, and infected they will be. Hopefully immunity from boosting in their families and other adult contacts will not have waned when they do.
New data is in the data sheet and plots will be updated in due course
https://www.ons.gov.uk/peoplepopulationandcommunity/healthandsocialcare/conditionsanddiseases/bulletins/coronaviruscovid19infectionsurveypilot/19january2022
Up to 8% prevalence from 7.3%
And as I posted earlier, in Mrs Onewheel's school (a primary, so the age group you identify) it's at least 16%. This morning she tested positive too - the only surprise is how long its taken, given that she's worked in the school throughout, even first lockdown when she was one of the few staff actually in as they had to look after the key workers' children and the vulnerable kids. I expect it will be my turn soon.
GP being interviewed in the paper today cited the "unknown long-term side effects of mRNA vaccines" as the reason she's unvaccinated. She didn't mention the AZ vaccine, so presumably is just using this as a convenient excuse to suit her own ignorance.
General population is definitely safer without her being able to prescribe medicine.
All measures in England yanked from next week. Those parties having quite the impact!
From BBC
"The prime minister also said the government intended to end the legal requirement for people to self-isolate after they test positive for Covid.
He said while self-isolation regulations remain in place for now, as Covid becomes endemic they would need to be replaced with advice and guidance.
When the current self-isolation regulations expire on 24 March, Mr Johnson said he expected not to renew them. If the data allows, the government will "seek a vote in this House to bring that date forward", the PM added."
Too much too soon?
Do we get a mahooisive U turn if another variant turns up?
Similar boat. Both our kids are in the 5-12 bracket. And it's certainly requiring much more consideration for if they'll have it. It's a weird one, I was happy to get it - stick it in me. But suddenly I'm very defensive about the proposition of the kids getting it.
Actually, I've just been had the booster over lunch! I was putting it off slightly tbh as was pretty ill with Covid November and was just enjoying geting back into training again and feeling good. Zwift last night, so fingers crossed take today as a rest day and then get back to it! 50w ftp boost apparently with Pfizer
Potentially risking the whole country to save his job.
What a man.
I'll be wearing ffp2 in shops till Spring or later if need be. Makes them divisive again though. Nice one Boris.
Legally "enforced" self-isolation has to end at some point. I just hope they continue to offer at least some access to free PCR tests to look out for new variants. Swapping many things around from legal enforcement to free support would be wise in fact. Remove the "requirement" to test on arrival from abroad, for example, but offer free PCR tests to all new arrivals... so they can help us monitor for new variants without being out of pocket. Stop "restricting" and start "supporting". Same goes for extending the amount of, and scope of, sick pay, for those with symptoms.
The mask stuff... the cheers in the parliament shows where Johnson is stuck... so many of his MPs consider mask mandates to be a severe restriction, and he needs them onside to keep his job. The problem is, without a mandate, or at least a clear lead and guidance, mask wearing will all but end, because venues and shops just have to accept mask wearing is over, they can't "ask" everyone to use them... they will just be ignored.
The problem is, without a mandate, or at least a clear lead and guidance, mask wearing will all but end, because venues and shops just have to accept mask wearing is over, they can’t “ask” everyone to use them… they will just be ignored.
Anyone can refuse access to their premises for any reason, other than the protected characteristics in discrimination law.
Whether businesses can afford to lose the custom of anyone refusing to wear a mask is a separate issue.
It's not just about losing custom, it's also about avoiding conflict.
Cases still dropping fast...
Cases
People tested positive
Latest data provided on 19 January 2022Last 7 days
652,469
⬇️ -386,031(-37.2%)
And Deaths (presumably) peeking...
Deaths
Deaths within 28 days of positive test
Latest data provided on 19 January 2022Last 7 days
1,865
⬆️ 141(8.2%)
Case rates support looking to reduce social distancing measures.
Death rates still suggest to me we should have done more over New Year.
The unknown means we should continue to test (PCR not LFT, now we need early warning of new variants, rather than to stop rising case numbers of known variants).
[ all three of those are just opinions ]
The rush to remove masks in schools seems political to me. But then perhaps I'm just in an area where schools are being hit far harder than elsewhere right now.
Cases dropping fits in with the post Christmas and New Year celebration figures dropping, they’re still high and deaths high too.
Removing masks in school from tomorrow is ridiculous, dropping them for all next week even more so. He’s doing this to try and appease the public due to his scandal.
Good news is turns out the Covid Pass conspiracy seems to have been just that, makes you think.
Up until Omicron there had been no cases on in-school transmission in Madame's school which suggested the protocols and mask wearing were effective. With Omicron replacing Delta there have been a mass of cases at the school with evidence of in-school transmission despite the masks. Add to that reports that you need an FFP2 mask to limit Omicron transmission and schools are faced with imposing FFP2 masks if they want to stop the spread. I don't think that will happen, it's a step to far, they are just too unpleasant to impose on kids all day.
It's hard to convice parents on the utility of masks when they're clearly no longer as effective.
Covid Pass conspiracy
Educate me on this please?
He’s doing this to try and appease the public due to his scandal.
Yep, allowing Covid to let rip, affect some people long term and kill others in the short term with far more of an impact than necessary so he can keep his job. What a deplorable excuse for a human being.
Educate me on this please?
That’s all this pandemic was about to enforce a vaccine so a pass could be introduced, you’d need it just leave house and go to the shops. You’d not be able to go abroad without them checking your identity with the pass, you’d need to scan in places you visited. Something about sheep and waking up.