Yeah, I have to say the mood music is that if you ignore it then it'll just go away. Sadly, that isn't how the virus works, as we will sadly find out in a few weeks time.
Maybe we could just lock down London and the third of the population living there who haven’t got a single vaccination dose?
Just got a nice NHS letter presumably offering me the chance for some timely antivirals should I get infected. Apparently they're sending me a PCR test in the post, which I then post back when I get ill, they analyse, then ring me up and offer the magic pills.
What's the window of antiviral efficacy, and have they allowed for the Christmas post? 🙂
Maybe we could just lock down London and the third of the population living there who haven’t got a single vaccination dose?
That's been debunked
Its based on out of date GP lists, 1000s have moved out of London since pandemic & indeed the UK, but lists haven't been updated
Maybe we could just lock down London and the third of the population living there who haven’t got a single vaccination dose?
Its basically happening here already at least in my corner of SE London. Fair few restaurants are shutting early for xmas, coffee shops back to take away only, and most pubs and restaurants that are open are empty.
the mood music is that if you ignore it then it’ll just go away.
I don't think that's it at all. From what I can see people are just exhausted by it and think it's inevitable they'll catch it at some point so they might as well stop hiding and get on with their lives. Also I wouldn't underestimate the level of antipathy towards the govt. As far as I can see any remaining collective will to make sacrifices to suppress the spread has disappeared with a massive wave of 'well if Boris and his mates don't follow the rules why the f*** should we?'. That may well be petty and self-defeating but you can hardly blame people.
Except that it will inevitably make things worse than they need to be.
Except that it will inevitably make things worse than they need to be.
Of course it will. But any remaining energy or goodwill to 'do the right thing' is gone. It's no different to climate change. People have concluded that anything they do individually is pointless and if our leaders can't be bothered to lead by example then why should they?
As far as I can see any remaining collective will to make sacrifices to suppress the spread has disappeared with a massive wave of ‘well if Boris and his mates don’t follow the rules why the f*** should we?
Depends on your echo chamber I think. A lot of people understand that position, but most people I know are reluctantly getting ready to do whatever they need to do.
A lot of people understand that position, but most people I know are reluctantly getting ready to do whatever they need to do.
Pretty much the same with me & the people I know. Various planned events have been cancelled. Nobody is happy about it, but at the end of the day it doesn't matter what Boris does.
As above, fed up and sort of grieving for a past life. However, whatever the P.M and his lot do I will ignore and do what's right for the greater good.
Getting on with life and learning to live with this virus, doesn't mean the life we had before.
Some of us have elderly relatives that we really care for, also know people working in the nhs. I'm not prepared to say 'sod it'.
Those that would pay attention to a ‘lockdown’ are probably already self imposing it.
those that wouldn’t, well they wouldn’t anyway.
It's all playing out exactly the same as it did at the beginning: businesses and the public are a few steps ahead of the government and restricting what they do and the associated risks well before being told to. If we go to similar timelines then we'll be locked down again after New Year but it really needs to happen now. The predictability of this makes me very angry and depressed all at the same time!
Depends on your echo chamber I think. A lot of people understand that position, but most people I know are reluctantly getting ready to do whatever they need to do.
I've so far cancelled a planned trip to Cornwall to see a friend on her 40th (me, her and her partner for a pub lunch), visiting family in London, a meet up with a few of my old work colleagues and a meal with one of the companies I have done some work for over the summer. I do have a day's riding with a friend and an uplift day with a few of us booked for the gap between Christmas and New Year, both of which I fear won't happen due to new restrictions and one of us calling it off.
London has declared a major incident; staff shortages due to isolation and illness now means services can not be fulfilled at expected levels.
https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-england-london-59710649
Why is London suffering so badly compared with the rest of the country - the gov.uk daily summary for today shows admissions nationally at 900 which is around the same level it has been for 3 to 4 months now, and a quarter of what it was at last winters peak.
If you filter by NHS region it actually says London has 200 admissions per day at the minute which is still a quarter of the level it was in the last winter peak so are they really being overwhelmed?
^seems it’s staff isolating rather than theoretical hospital capacity that is the limiting factor
Which is basically staff staying off because they want to avoid catching it and having to isolate at Christmas...
Why is London suffering so badly compared with the rest of the country – the gov.uk daily summary for today shows admissions nationally at 900 which is around the same level it has been for 3 to 4 months now, and a quarter of what it was at last winters peak.
If you filter by NHS region it actually says London has 200 admissions per day at the minute which is still a quarter of the level it was in the last winter peak so are they really being overwhelmed?
The most densely populated, the most reliant on public transport, NHS close to capacity already and understaffed, those staff getting ill and having to isolate....
Our health minister was on France Inter this morning, he made it clear that the problem is the non-vaccinated. The answer is making the pass sanitaire a pass vaccinal so a recent PCR or lateral flow test no longer gets you into bars, swimming pools, cinemas... The idea is that if people won't look after themselves they don't get to go to places where people mix and they risk catching the virus and end up in a hospital bed.
We now need to be vaccinated to cross the German border, a PCR test won't do.
Only 9% non-vaccinated but they are still the vast majority of hospital admissions appararently.
Which is basically staff staying off because they want to avoid catching it and having to isolate at Christmas…
Yes of course, large numbers of NHS staff are faking illness and isolation to save their Christmas.
Have a word with yourself
Yes of course, large numbers of NHS staff are faking illness and isolation to save their Christmas.
Have a word with yourself
If it isn't that then what is it? We cant have the NHS shutting down at a quarter of its capacity because a virus with a 99.97 percent survival rate is moving between the staff. Surely that means it's time for change the policy?
The reason for isolating is to avoid spreading it, not to avoid catching it.
But it's spreading anyway, at lightning speed, so why does that even matter now?
The isolating is doing more harm to NHS availability than the filling of beds itself if three quarters of the beds can't be used.
NHS is not at a quarter of its capacity though. You can't suggest that rates are 1/4 of what they were some time in the past and extrapolate to that conclusion. NHS is doing a lot more besides, the covid capacity is only a proportion.
And this enables London services to be adjusted in preparation, does not mean it is overwhelmed yet.
London declared an incident last winter too.
We cant have the NHS shutting down at a quarter of its capacity because a virus with a 99.97
Airvent are you genuinely that clueless?
You think covid +ve staff should be in hospital with people who are already sick and exactly the very people likely to be in 0.03%?
If a patient is already in hospital with covid what difference does a staff member with covid treating them make?
It's the 1000s of patients in hospitals without covid you have to worry about!
Cmon it's not that hard
And I was in no state ti be working when I had it a couple of weeks a ago!
Airvent, quick question to satisfy my curiosity. Are you in a think tank that advises government policy?
Airvent, im going to assume you’re being deliberately obtuse rather than that you have no grasp of what you’re suggesting. Also that you have no idea of what the situation actually is in hospitals around the UK, let alone in areas under increasing pressure.
A major incident being declared also allows other measure to be put in place to help deal with the situation; re-deploying staff, cancelling leave, JESIP kicking in to increase collaborative assistance for pre-hospital care etc…
UK deaths are currently at 170k (with Covid on death certificate) - that's 0.25% of the population and we haven't all caught it yet....
The 99.97 survival rate doesn't wash anymore.... Even if everyone in the UK (67.22million) caught covid that would be around a 20k figure unless my maths is out.
It’s the 1000s of patients in hospitals without covid you have to worry about!
Cmon it’s not that hard
Just re deploy them on a covid ward then
Just re deploy them on a covid ward then
Yeah coz any NHS staff member can do any other staff members job 🙄
I’m guessing that somebody’s belief that COVID was over when Freedom Day was announced has suffered a little bit of a battering at the hands of reality
It’s the 1000s of patients in hospitals without covid you have to worry about!
Cmon it’s not that hard
And I was in no state ti be working when I had it a couple of weeks a ago!
Exactly.
I had a recent hospital stay, appendix. (6 days as an inpatient) I would guestimate they are running at 95% capacity on a very good day - that is dangerous and unsustainable. (this was just before omicron became known).
On top of that, I was being swabbed for covid about every 48hrs, and covid positives were being moved to covid + wards.
It's a huge disruption and burden on top of the already known isssues with NHS funding.
That’s been debunked
That was claiming a third of adults. A third of “the population” still seems a good estimate, even with the exodus.
A GP gave me my booster last week which seems like a total misallocation of resources.
Surely someone less 'valuable' can be found to administer the vaccination?
Just re deploy them on a covid ward then
I'm not sure I posess the vocabulary to express just how much beyond selfish and stupid this statement is.
A GP gave me my booster this morning. Of course they are involved… the current scaling up is huge.
There will be more NHS staff isolating now than when there were the same number of patients with covid in the previous wave. Because of vaccines there are fewer in hospital for the number infected, ie, there are more infected, and hence more isolating, for the number in hospital.
If a patient is already in hospital with covid what difference does a staff member with covid treating them make?
So based on this and another comment, @airvent, you don’t think people with Covid should isolate, even if they are working in a hospital?
It’s an interesting perspective. Essentially then, you appear to be proposing that those who go on to experience a morbid outcome with Covid for whatever reason, are acceptable collateral damage, and there’s no need to try and stop them from catching the virus for the sake of life getting back to normal?
I know that’s not what you’ve directly said, but it’s the only conclusion to mandating the infected back to work. In the age of modern medicine, it appears pretty medieval…
So based on this and another comment, @airvent, you don’t think people with Covid should isolate, even if they are working in a hospital?
It’s an interesting perspective. Essentially then, you appear to be proposing that those who go on to experience a morbid outcome with Covid for whatever reason, are acceptable collateral damage, and there’s no need to try and stop them from catching the virus for the sake of life getting back to normal?
I know that’s not what you’ve directly said, but it’s the only conclusion to mandating the infected back to work. In the age of modern medicine, it appears pretty medieval…
I'm just presenting an alternative approach for discussion.
^^ Don't think it needs discussing at all as it's not a realistic alternative in the slightest.
So if we continue doing what we're doing now we will run out of hospital capacity in a few days because there will be no staff left to treat anyone?
What are you suggesting we change instead?
What are you suggesting we change instead?
I’m not suggesting anything, I don’t need to. I just need to trust that those who know more about this stuff than me will make the most appropriate decision for the best outcome and I’ll do what they tell me.
I can’t believe anybody is making a poor decision against the evidence and advice just because…
Do we think restrictions announced tomorrow?
