That is because I have no questions. I have done plenty of reading, spoken with people with far greater medical knowledge than most people on here, have been following all developments with interest and have made my decision.
At the risk of dogpiling; with all that reading, family knowledge to ask, etc., you didn't manage to google yellow card scheme?
I will be honest; that omission does make me slightly side-eye the veracity of all your other research.
To the other point. I don't think it's tight for you to be abused as a selfish prick; equally it is entirely 100% accurate to describe your behaviour as selfish - you defined it almost in dictionary terms - and also to question whether in doing so you don't waive some other rights to protect others in society.
At the risk of dogpiling; with all that reading, family knowledge to ask, etc., you didn’t manage to google yellow card scheme?
I will be honest; that omission does make me slightly side-eye the veracity of all your other research.
It was remiss of me but honestly I did not know about it - to my own surprise.
Genuine question - should one be asked to put their own health at risk for the good of others - in the broad sense. Or to put it another way. Is one not entitled to be selfish when it comes to ones own health?
If I was you I'd talk to your clinic related to your existing condition as to whether a booster is in your own selfish interests. And do it tomorrow. Don't wait for this wave of a new variant to really get going. Don't worry about all the "greater good" arguments, just look into what is in your interests right now, with someone who is fully up to date on your condition and the pandemic. Please.
IMHO - no. It might be the biggest ticket item for you but so it is for everyone else.
It's a grey area when you are being asked to sacrifice your health for the benfit of others; but that's not the case here. You're being asked to take a tiny bit of risk (YMMV on that level, that's your right) for a major improvement in overall.
(and I know you individually having / not having the booster makes little difference, but you can't make that decision on the basis of the individual, we all need to take one for the team)
If you could find it in the masses of past posts, I was very sceptical as my first vaccine appt came up; others before self was a part of my decision to proceed.
If I was you I’d talk to your clinic related to your existing condition as to whether a booster is in your own selfish interests. And do it tomorrow.
Thing is, if they said go for it I wouldn't - I don't want the booster. End of, zero interest in it etc. I would be wasting valuable clinical time that someone else could use.
@theotherjonv - I've done my bit as far as I am concerned in having the initial two. The goalposts keep getting moved as to what we are expected to accept in terms of vaccine efficacy and I am at my limit I am afraid. If that makes me selfish so be it.
Or to put it another way. Is one not entitled to be selfish when it comes to ones own health?
I completely support your right to choose or refuse treatment. If you refuse a treatment there may be consequences e.g. if you refuse a blood transfusion for religious reasons you may die.
As another example, if you have an infectious disease but refuse treatment you may lose access to places with vulnerable people e.g. care homes.
Not wanting a booster in the middle of a pandemic doesn't seem logical to me but it's your choice. If that choice means you can't go to football matches or care homes without taking a lateral flow test on the day, that seems reasonable to me
Or to put it another way. Is one not entitled to be selfish when it comes to ones own health?
At one end you might be considered selfish at the other, foolish. Either end involves some blowback, somewhere (probably).
Not wanting a booster in the middle of a pandemic doesn’t seem logical to me but it’s your choice. If that choice means you can’t go to football matches or care homes without taking a lateral flow test on the day, that seems reasonable to me
Purely on a technicality - at the moment you only need to be double dipped to obtain the vax pass. Of course that may well change as the booster program expands and yes, I agree an lft test is reasonable in these circumstances.
I test pretty much daily anyway…
It will change. Other countries designed that in from the onset. If we actually get green cards properly in place here this winter, you can guarantee an announcement that the booster will be added to it almost immediately*. I’ll bet you a fiver on it.
EDIT: *the announcement will be almost immediately once the system is in place, not the requirement… that will lag to give everyone a chance to get a booster.
Anyway, ignore all those nudges… look after yourself. Get a booster if it will help you avoid a serious bought of Covid19.
Don’t take that bet… I googled to find links to third doses being required for green cards in other countries, but found…
https://www.independent.co.uk/news/uk/politics/covid-pass-vaccine-booster-omicron-b1975226.html
yes, however in this instance I think your reasoning is flawed and you’ve made the wrong shout about what’s best for your own health and that of your family. It just so happens that’s what’s actually best for you is best for everyone else, too.Or to put it another way. Is one not entitled to be selfish when it comes to ones own health?
Please ignore the anti-vax unhinged libertarian lot and everyone put on your masks. It saved my mates life. He was in the pub with his girlfriend and his wife came in and didn’t recognise him.
IGMC 😃
I'd like to confirm that Binners' joke has been long-term tested on Twitter and verified safe.
Thing is, if they said go for it I wouldn’t – I don’t want the booster. End of, zero interest in it etc. I would be wasting valuable clinical time that someone else could use.
I’m a bit confused, 5 min of a jabbers time compared to potentially passing on the virus/costly therapeutic drugs/hugely expensive ICU care.
Somebody’s thinking/assessment of risk/due diligence on decision making is fundamentally flawed.
because it has not been tested in the long-term and it is the mRNA delivery that has the (admittedly small) chance of causing an autoimmune response in the long term.
Has it been tested in the long term or not? How do we know there is a small long term risk if it hasn't been tested in the long term?
I’m a bit confused, 5 min of a jabbers time compared to potentially passing on the virus/costly therapeutic drugs/hugely expensive ICU care.
I’ve had Covid already and I’m am double dipped. The chances of me being seriously ill with it if I do catch it again are very very slim.
In fact vax 1 made me far more ill than actual Covid did. I was so poorly from it I very nearly didn’t chance the second.
Anyway, I’ll dip back out of this thread I think. Lots of good debate but plenty of vitriol and nastiness too.
will you refuse the hospital treatment if required if you catch it? Or will you gladly accept that?
Amongst the many useful and respectful posts, there are a handful of posters on here who think that throwing insults at someone who doesn't agree with their point of view is the right way to go about it.
We started with "three weeks to flatten the curve" through to "2 jabs to return to normal". This has then moved to "2 not good enough, but 3 will sort you out". That's not taking into account that they are now looking to a new vaccine for Omicron, which will inevitably be 4 or more.
Realistically the biggest risk from any vaccine is a long term adverse immune response. I.e. it accidentally generates an autoimmune response. But considering it is creating a very similar some protein to the virus, if this was likely then the virus will make more of an issue and at far higher levels due to the severity of infection.
The mRNA degrades so quickly that it will not be present in the body for long after having the vaccine, unlike the coronavirus itself which seems to linger in various tissue for some time (not allowed to take a pcr test for some time after infection due to trace viral rna).
Personally i know which one i would rather take the long term risk of and that is the mRNA vaccine.
Your immune response is likely the only part of it that will remain for months, and I still haven't got my bloody 5g
Earlier. javid was being quoted as stating there were already 200,000 cases per day of omicron. If this is the case, why aren’t we on plan C/D/E/F & G already?
that would put us on over a million cases a day by the end of the week and run out of hosts by Christmas..
That’s not taking into account that they are now looking to a new vaccine for Omicron, which will inevitably be 4 or more.
i’m hopefully having a covid jab every year for the rest of my days, likely rolled in with the flu jab.
anyone who hasn’t realised this has not read this thread much and/or consumes their news from facebook/dave at work.
In theory there is no reason why we couldn't have a multivalent mRNA vaccine, targeting flu (a few strains) and covid strains in one. Potentially could include things like rsv if the various manufacturers decide to cooperate. I.e. Will never happen
From a glass half full point of view:
I haven't been locked down since most of the population got vaccinated
I've been able to resume all my normal activites
The third dose of Moderna resulted in only mild cold symptoms but I'll admit that I'd rather not repeat the two AZ experiences.
A specific Pfizer/Moderna vaccine for Omicron is only months away if needed and Valneva have the first inactivated virus vaccine in stage three trials which it's hoped will cope with variants.
The economy hasn't tanked
There's loads of snow up the hill.
anyone who hasn’t realised this has not read this thread much and/or consumes their news from facebook/dave at work.
Most of the chat elsewhere I've seen on boosters has come from anti vax voices. Some of which actually discussed the likely probability of annual boosters before anyone had even had their first jab so theres some degree of bullshitting going on and just using it as a stick to hit vaccines with.
I wonder which date Boris will ‘cancel Christmas’?
I’m going to say the 19th - same as last year
Lockdown 4? 5? I lose count
The economy hasn’t tanked
Really?
We are currently standing on a cracking sheet of ice on top of a very deep cold lake. The cracks are only starting to show but they're growing fast and were currently making no effort to get off the lake.
^^ I suspect he's going to lock us down in January after the nationwide super spreader even has happened.
Mainly due to political expediency with a nod to the fact that many will ignore Christmas restrictions now anyway.
I also suspect that many within the Tory party are totally ok with the NHS being a far lower priority this year for a few reasons.
Lockdown 4? 5? I lose count
We've had 3 national lockdowns
So far
Really?
We are currently standing on a cracking sheet of ice on top of a very deep cold lake. The cracks are only starting to show but they’re growing fast and were currently making no effort to get off the lake.
Edukator is likely talking from a French perspective. Their financial recovery is going to be faster than ours due to, well, you know, that "B" thing.
Edukator is likely talking from a French perspective. Their likely financial recovery is going to be faster than ours due to, well, you know, that “B” thing.
Makes a lot more sense now
Edukator is likely talking from a French perspective. Their financial recovery is going to be faster than ours due to, well, you know, that “B” thing.
But we get £350 million a week?
Don’t we?
Don’t cross the streams…
This really scares the crap out of me. No amount of clapping or banging pans will help this time.
Mainly due to political expediency with a nod to the fact that many will ignore Christmas restrictions now anyway.
Quite a few of the people on here I'd consider sensible and law abiding have stated they'll be seeing family this year regardless of restrictions, and I can understand why.
We’ve had 3 national lockdowns
So far
Your experiences of that probably vary significantly depending on what part of the country you’re in
I get the distinct feeling that we’re being lined up for the next one though. Our glorious leader was very non-commit all and evasive (as usual) when asked about it directly this morning
Schools in two Welsh counties are moving to online learning from this weekend..
https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-wales-59643835
Omicron is about to go proper viral..
Lockdown before or after christmas?
We started with “three weeks to flatten the curve” through to “2 jabs to return to normal”. This has then moved to “2 not good enough, but 3 will sort you out”. That’s not taking into account that they are now looking to a new vaccine for Omicron, which will inevitably be 4 or more.
Your point being?
... I mean anyone would think we were dealing with an unprecedented situation or something.
Danny, I have my own health worries that stemmed from a close family member's long term illness. It pushed me the other way towards having more faith in the scientific method. I can relate to your pov despite thinking you've got things quite wrong.
If you genuinely believe your position to be the right one though I'd basically be locking the whole family down for the next few weeks if I were you and see what comes out.
I’ve been reading around a bit and I get the feeling that 200k omicron cases today figure is numberwang.
If it’s that bad already then the push on boosters is just an irrelevant distraction.
We started with…
You might have done. TiRed’s early contributions (and many from others to be fair) to this thread before there were any vaccines ready at all laid it out pretty well for us how vaccinations were likely to progress once/if we got them. Multiple waves were always expected. Boosters were always likely.
I do know plenty of people not getting treatment for far more serious illnesses though because of this craziness
Same here. And the NHS would have been able to treat far more people in the Autumn just gone if everybody who could have been vaccinated had been.
feeling that 200k omicron cases today figure is numberwang.
The nice and unique thing about the U.K. is that we have the ONS survey that provides the true underlying prevalence of infection. This can be linked to the reported cases in pillar 2 in the community, which is a smaller sample due to under reporting. Hence although it’s an estimate, it is, sadly, founded on some good foundations with decent population estimates.
@reluctantjumper They are rightly preparing for the worst but that doesn't mean the worst case scenario will actually arise. It's also about keeping the NHS in a semi functioning state.
You as an individual and the people you care about will come through this mate. This is more of a societal level issue. I think I'm making sense there? Been a long day.
Firstly, TiRed, we love you - great podcast, should be required reading/listening.
Secondly, everyone, there are ways and means to talk to one another that maintains decorum.
Thirdly, there is definitely something called 'public health' which has a(n) history as long as your arm, and your arm has much of that history already in it.
Fourthly, lots of what has been 'hot topic' lately in this thread, has already been covered, often in quite a lot of depth, earlier in this thread. Obviously this thread is now rather large, and ^up there is a long way up...
... to try at least to precis some of them...
... the best answer to the 'rushed development', 'it hasn't been tested', balls, is answered by @batfink - his wings are like a shield of steel, and his insight into the R&D of it is pretty much the final answer to it...
... the difference between smoking/obesity/cancer/highriskactivities/eatingbaconsandwiches and Covid has consistently been pointed out - only one of the above is contagious. If you cannot see how that makes them different, then i don't know what i could possibly say to make you see that they are completely different. You do see how they are completely different, right?
... we have been taking different 'flu shots every twelve months for some years now, for we somehow understand that influenza mutates such that superannuated drugs need to be updated, but for 'reasons' it's weird that we need to do the exact same thing for Rona-2?
We can disagree, and we can keep it clean, but you can understand why people are losing some patience, surely?
I understand it, and don't call me Shirley.
I understand it, and don’t call me Shirley.
Roger, Roger. What's the vector Victor
but try coming out with that crap in a drinking establishment pretty much anywhere in the country, with maybe the exception of Holmfirth, or similar and see how it ends up.
Whoa what’ve we done? (Resident of Holmfirth). Am I at the epicentre of something good or bad?
You do know Binners isn’t from Islington and has an anecdote about upsetting people in pubs??
