but then all societies also tread the fine line between liberty and tyranny
🙂
" all societies"
🙂
Well I found it funny, anyway...
As previously posted. 1 week ago my brother in Mumich had to constantly produce nhs vaccine status to enter shops and restaurants.
He didnt mention the police checking, and i didnt ask about the transport network
Let’s see how this all works out – curently we have 1…..ONE case in hotel quarantine. Be interesting to see this graph unfold.
Will be watching closely. Will get my booster this week but we're not game to cross any borders this Xmas. Hopefully WA will see things work out well for the East Coast and follow suit... But it feels ominous currently.
Does anyone know what's going on with boosters in Wales? Seems like there is currently no change to the previous timeline from what i can see.
(if you cover the end of your oboe or clarinet). Production of micron sized droplets in closed setting. If you have a wind musician in your household, you might like them to practice with the windows open.
And now there are no test kits.
Excellent, case numbers will fall away now.
Choices to make now... LFT before meeting up with workmates, or before meeting up with elderly relatives after meeting up with workmates?
Choices to make now… LFT before meeting up with workmates, or before meeting up with elderly relatives after meeting up with workmates?
Plus keeping at least seven (per person) in reserve incase you get pinged as a close contact.
The levels of antibody generated from the double babe
Chuckling about Tired's typing history that led to that auto-correct 🙂
Incidentally, Tired, I owe you an apology. I was listening to the podcast and I thought "who is this affected twerp babbling on 19 to the dozen"? Turned out I had the speed set at 1.5x. My bad 🙂
When announcing new policies that necessitate increased use of LFTs, maybe keeping a good stock of LFTs might be a good idea???
All vaccination centre staff have to order LFTs through this system now, so if this persists then we won't be allowed to work......
Ive just tried to order some, ticking the NHS staff box and still none available.
before I knew that was even an option I listened to an entire Richard Herring interview podcast on 1.5x. I knew [I]something[/I] wasn't right as the whole time I was thinking, bloody hell these 2 are excitable aren't they!!“who is this affected twerp babbling on 19 to the dozen”? Turned out I had the speed set at 1.5x. My bad 🙂
I'm debating whether to just wait and get a booster when it gets reformulated for Omicron. I only had my second dose around 2 months ago so presumably antibodies are still pretty high. Why aren't we able to have lateral flow test that check our personal antibody level that way we could target those who need a booster the most? I'm sure America has this.
well, 2 doses wasn't enough to stop me getting Delta, and Omicron is supposedly more contagious, so good luck with that. (just had booster yesterday btw!)I’m debating whether to just wait and get a booster when it gets reformulated for Omicron. I only had my second dose around 2 months ago so presumably antibodies are still pretty high.
I’m debating whether to just wait and get a booster when it gets reformulated for Omicron.
You'll catch the Omicron variant this winter, well before future boosters are adapted for patterns seen in new variants (they won't be reformulated just for Omicron) and delivered in numbers.
Why aren’t we able to have lateral flow test that check our personal antibody level that way we could target those who need a booster the most?
What does that gain over giving everyone the booster, prioritising those who are older and/or at risk?
Anecdotal evidence from my morning commute. No change in traffic from last week.
Either everyone who can work from home already was, or they are ignoring the latest advice.
Anecdote from a colleague - she is one of three people in the office today on a floor that had 30 people there last week.
If you get boosted, you still "get" omicron, even if your antibodies fight it off (test -ve). So get your Omicron antibodies from a boosted immune system that meets and fights off the virus.
What does that gain over giving everyone the booster, prioritising those who are older and/or at risk?
My thinking is that to vaccinate 1 million people a day is clearly an enormous task and the old/clinically vulnerable are easy to identify but those under 50 with no underlying condition but low level of antibody are less so. If you could cut a few million people who the booster would have a negligible benefit right now on and swap in those who are in the younger age brackets but have low antibody levels you could have bought a few weeks of time on those who are more likely to become seriously ill.
As I understand it the antibody level tests are rapid tests and show a line of varying thickness depending on your immunity level so if you had two 40 year olds with no health conditions but one has significantly weaker immunity you could bump that one up the queue. Especially at a time where literally every day counts in the race to boost people.
Of course it's too late for that now this winter but as this race is likely to be a yearly thing it could be beneficial going forward?
"First confirmed case of someone dieing with Omicron"
Nice bit of a headline grabber there from the media. No confirmation that they died because of Omicron, no details of the individual and that their background could have ment any form of Covid could have finished them off if Covid was even the cause.
No10 is definitely feeding the media to get the public onside for a lockdown.
The whole thing isnt sitting well with me at the moment. Omicron is supposedly highly contagious yet relatively mild in SA as it has been reported. Meanwhile the British media are painting it as the apocalypse and unless we 'think of others' and get to our nearest centre for an injection then we are likely to end up in serious trouble.
I'm double jabbed in the under 40s age group as many of my friends and colleagues are. There are a lot of us who have had Covid and likely passed it on over the last few months with mild illness. So whilst the jab might have prevented me from feeling worse with it, its done nothing to protect others I know from getting it.
I've read a couple of opinions on here criticising unvaxxed members of society, and branding them as 2nd class citizens. Frankly I find this a disgusting viewpoint, and a worrying state of mind. If someone chooses not to get vaccinated, then that should be their choice and something which they can make freely. If the vaccine stopped infections then I see a different viewpoint but that isn't the case. Similarly the idea of those unvaxxed being selfish in clogging hospitals, do we judge others on their unhealthy lifestyles for potentially ending up with an illness or disease which causes them to be hospitalised? Do we need to start picketing at McDonalds or the local Chippy to pour scorn on the obese?
This virus has damaged society as much as it has taken lives. It has drawn huge divisions across society and instead of people being made to make their own choice on it, they have been coerced and marginalised over it. People should respect the decisions of others, regardless of which side of the fence you sit.
When announcing new policies that necessitate increased use of LFTs, maybe keeping a good stock of LFTs might be a good idea???
They were going to make a note of that but they'd run out of room on the back of the fag packet
Don't worry though. They've got it all under control...
So whilst the jab might have prevented me from feeling worse with it, its done nothing to protect others I know from getting it.
Actually because it reduces your viral load it makes you less likely to infect people and if you do, with a lower dose leading to milder illness
https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC8554481/
I’ve read a couple of opinions on here criticising unvaxxed members of society, and branding them as 2nd class citizens. Frankly I find this a disgusting viewpoint, and a worrying state of mind. If someone chooses not to get vaccinated, then that should be their choice and something which they can make freely.
Fine. Choose away. Its a bit like choosing whether or not to go for a stroll down the fast lane of the M62 though isn't it? There are obvious repercussions you have to accept.
If it was up to me I'd throw them all in a big, deep pit to make sure the selfish ****s couldn't wander around being a danger to the rest of the population who are equipped with enough sense to desire self-presevation, and place a completely unnecessary burden on the NHS
Why should the rest of us have to indulge these morons?
People should respect the decisions of others, regardless of which side of the fence you sit.
You are Desmond Swayne and I claim my copy of whichever Ayn Rand claptrap you're presently reading
Omicron is supposedly highly contagious yet relatively mild in SA as it has been reported. Meanwhile the British media are painting it as the apocalypse and unless we ‘think of others’ and get to our nearest centre for an injection then we are likely to end up in serious trouble.
I agree that the media are whipping things up, but if it means some folk who've sat on the vax fence get their fingers out, then so be it, I'm cool with that.
As for your first point, if it is indeed milder, and half as many people end up in hospital due to that, but twice as many people catch it (because it's a lot more contagious), then you still end up with a shit load of folk in hospital, it's far more sensible to plan for the worst and hope for the best than vice versa.
And despite what some naysayers are saying, the hospitals are in dire straits as it is.
If someone chooses not to get vaccinated, then that should be their choice and something which they can make freely.
True. But it's not the choice of NHS staff not to treat them if they end up needing hospital care, even when it means not being able to treat people for other ailments.
This virus has damaged society as much as it has taken lives.
And not vaccinating, where that is shown to reduce hospitalisation rates, risks damaging society even more... if we have to shut down aspects of society to stop the number of people in hospital getting out of control.
It's going to take more than vaccinations to keep our hospitals "working" for us this winter... and those that do not get vaccinated, when they have no health reason not to, and end up being hospitalised when they could have avoided it, could increase the need for "other" measures to reduce pressures on care.
Frankly I find this a disgusting viewpoint, and a worrying state of mind.
Someone is disgusted by someone else making valid criticism. Then questioning their mental health. Look in the mirror.
The virus has damaged society far more than necessary because some people refuse to get vaccinated which means more restrictions for all. I put up with other peoples decisions but 'respect'? Nope, respect is earned and spouting conspoiracy nonsense, slagging off mask wearers and demonstrating against sensible measures earns my contempt not respect.
Were now down to about 10% of those illegible for vaccination who aren't in these parts. Those that I know that aren't have simply confirmed what I already knew about them from other aspects of their behaviour.
Incidentally it doesn't take a genius in maths to work out that only 10% refusing a vaccine roughly doubles the number of intensive care beds occupied.
If someone chooses not to get vaccinated, then that should be their choice and something which they can make freely.
Wrote long response.
Deleted.
Summed up better by:
Me, me, me, me, me-me-me-me.
There's a reason various governments are discussing mandatory vaccination, and it is not because they want to inject 5G Bill Gates STEELING MA FREEDUM cancer emissions into your bloodstream.
If the vaccine stopped infections then I see a different viewpoint but that isn’t the case.
I've got good news for you, the vaccine does stop infections. Not all of them but some of them. And at a population level stopping "some infections" is really rather useful for slowing down the spread of disease.
do we judge others on their unhealthy lifestyles for potentially ending up with an illness or disease which causes them to be hospitalised? Do we need to start picketing at McDonalds or the local Chippy to pour scorn on the obese?
False equivalence. Unless you have discovered a magic pill that keeps Mcdonald's fans healthy and they aren't taking it.
Similarly the idea of those unvaxxed being selfish in clogging hospitals, do we judge others on their unhealthy lifestyles for potentially ending up with an illness or disease which causes them to be hospitalised?. Do we need to start picketing at McDonalds or the local Chippy to pour scorn on the obese?
No. But increasing restrictions on cigarette sales and tax on sugary drinks have already been implemented, and a 'fat tax' (i.e. fast food) has been mooted.
No10 is definitely feeding the media to get the public onside for a lockdown
And if that's the case it will be because they think it might be necessary. Unless you think they have some sort of ulterior motive??
(if you cover the end of your oboe or clarinet). Production of micron sized droplets in closed setting. If you have a wind musician in your household, you might like them to practice with the windows open.
There have been earlier studies on this. I imagine the reason masking the bell doesn't block the aerosol is that there are many other orifices through which air is expelled.
Earlier studies have shown singing is a far higher risk (as you would imagine). I take a LFT before going to orchestra to play my oboe.
As for opening the windows I would guess my partner is more at risk of contracting Covid from me by other "direct contact".
No10 is definitely feeding the media to get the public onside for a lockdown
the same number 10 that has been reluctant to do anything until it hand is forced by events are suddenly pro-active and trying to get ahead?
the cynic might think they were trying to move attention away from another story.
When we're at roughly 89% of the eligible population vaccinated when back before they were going in to people's arms it was being said we'd be doing well if we got 75% done I don't think we're in too bad shape.
People can choose but tbh I think if you choose not to you have a very flimsy relationship with the facts.
Having said that you can imagine my partner's pleasure, who runs a large primary school with 40% of her staff already off for one reason or another, on hearing that the unvaccinated member of staff with a very active social life will be isolating for 10 days again, because she's been pinged as a contact of a confirmed case. 3rd or 4th time I think.
You can't get an ambulance, a&e waiting times are through the roof, and I expect a lot of hospitals will be carrying out only the barest of essentials shortly. we don't need to exacerbate the situation through willful ignorance. Edit : if it's not ignorance the only assumption one can make is that it comes down to not giving a toss.
As for your first point, if it is indeed milder, and half as many people end up in hospital due to that, but twice as many people catch it (because it’s a lot more contagious), then you still end up with a shit load of folk in hospital, it’s far more sensible to plan for the worst and hope for the best than vice versa.
I'm astonished some people, after all this time, are still not grasping this simple fact. Its a numbers game. Vaccination is how we skew the numbers in our favour to stop having to do the other damaging stuff.
I don't agree with some of keyboard warrior response to those deliberately not getting vaccinated, but frankly, if someone is that ignorant and contrary, I don't want to be around them, regardless of any diseases going round.
Booster done! Only booked it last Thursday and got done at a local pharmacy rather than the big centre this time. Got given a 3rd dose of Moderna.
RM.
the unvaccinated member of staff with a very active social life will be isolating for 10 days again, because she’s been pinged as a contact of a confirmed case. 3rd or 4th time I think.
Competency framework?
If it was up to me I’d throw them all in a big, deep pit to make sure the selfish ****s couldn’t wander around being a danger to the rest of the population who are equipped with enough sense to desire self-presevation, and place a completely unnecessary burden on the NHS
Why should the rest of us have to indulge these morons?
Binners - Do you hold the fat, smokers and drunks in the same contempt? All these things also add a huge unnecessary burden to the NHS too.
On the whole, I agree with a lot of what you and other people on this forum say but the vitriol that is currently being levelled at some in our society is frankly concerning. It's like brexit on steroids.
I had an appointment for my booster on the 21st, but kept checking the (Scottish) site for earlier slots and one opened up for yesterday. So had flu and pfizer. They were allowing walk-ins at the centre yesterday, but those of us with appointments got to jump the queue, which was loooong. And that was before this morning's announcements.
The guy who gave me the jabs was actually optimistic about Omicron. Long term, the best way out of this mess may be the emergence of a milder variant that is more contagious. Still lots of unanswered questions of course. Is it really milder than, say, delta? Does catching Omicron give you lasting protection against delta? etc. But this may not be all bad news.
Binners – Do you hold the fat, smokers and drunks in the same contempt?
Is obesity contagious now? Do you pile on a few stone if you end up in a room with a porker? If you pass someone in the park who's shouting at the ducks, are you suddenly filled with the urge to have a bottle of White Lightning for breakfast every day for the rest of your life? Mmmmmmm ... those Benson and Hedges smell great. I think I'm going to start doing 40 a day of those...
These people are morons, whose 'choices' have huge implications for the rest of society and getting on for two years into the pandemic, with further restrictions on the horizon, I don't see why we should have to continue suffering these fools banging on about their rights to freedom of choice
If you don't want the vaccine, fine. Your choice. But don't then expect to be granted the same freedoms and liberties as those in society who aren't thick, entitled, contrary, science-denying, self-absorbed bellends
Having said that you can imagine my partner’s pleasure, who runs a large primary school with 40% of her staff already off for one reason or another, on hearing that the unvaccinated member of staff with a very active social life will be isolating for 10 days again, because she’s been pinged as a contact of a confirmed case. 3rd or 4th time I think.
I've lost track, is it SSP only for such people (and any more only at employer's - your partner's - discretion?)
Edit - I have no objection to how someone spends their free time. Their enjoyment of clubs/raves/group dogging is no more worthy of judgement than our enjoyment of off-road cycling.
It is their deliberate and wilful refusal of a free vaccine that would remove this problem that I take issue with.
All these things also add a huge unnecessary burden to the NHS too.
But aren't likely to increase exponentially over the next few months bringing the heath service to a standstill for everyone. Also... repeat this out loud to yourself at least three times... not transmittable.
@kelvin I think it may have been you who commented earlier about pharmacists profiting handsomely from the efforts and goodwill of volunteer vaccinators... good god, hadn't seen it that way. Is there another angle? I'm struggling to see it.
Nope, not me. I'm happy for pharmacists/GPs to be paid, and for people to volunteer to assist, as long as the volunteers know that's the case. Normal health providers still have to pay the rent, staff bills etc, and providing an accelerated vaccination scheme for "free" would further impact their ability to provide all the other services that we need from them.
Does anyone know what’s going on with boosters in Wales? Seems like there is currently no change to the previous timeline from what i can see.
It's running as fast as it can, got mine on Christmas Eve. They're struggling with no-shows at my local one (neighbour works there) and supply issues too on some days. Still on target though but with no room to accelerate it.
for people to volunteer to assist, as long as the volunteers know that’s the case. Normal health providers still have to pay the rent, staff bills etc, and providing an accelerated vaccination scheme for “free” would further impact their ability to provide all the other services that we need from them.
Thanks - haven't the capacity to think that one through at the moment. I will sleep better!
Personlly I am quite uneasy with this move to dish out boosters to the entire adult population when the WHO are still protesting against vaccine hoarding.
Give the old and the vulnerable a booster by all means. But as a healthy mid-thirties bloke who only had his second mRNA vaccine 4 months ago, giving me a third vaccine is way down the list of ways to reduce harm when <10% of Africa has had even a single dose.
Another unintended impact - school vaccination program is being canned in North Yorkshire as staff redeployed to boosters
https://twitter.com/dan_graf/status/1470391154244001801?s=20
