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The Coronavirus Dis...
 

The Coronavirus Discussion Thread.

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He's unsurprisingly not so sceptical about the non-fully FDA approved antibody treatments he's receiving. Of course, he's claiming to be enjoying a side dish of horse de-wormer as well, so when/if he recovers thanks to the antibodies, he'll claim it was the ivermectin.

These ****ers preach one thing to their gullible audience, then are first in line for top-of-the-line treatments unavailable to most normal folk.


 
Posted : 02/09/2021 4:41 pm
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Hilarious how so much of the reporting I've seen about Joe Rogan mocks his use of horse worming medicine.

Does that mean that I can mock the next person I see taking paracetamol, ibuprofen or steroids for that dodgy shoulder as idiots putting their trust in horse medicine too?

Perhaps it's not a bad idea to follow his advice to look after physical health as a way to make getting covid a less risky business.

I've never once heard Jason Leitch suggest that eating proper food and getting out for some exercise in the sunshine might be beneficial. Not once.
It's been 100% about vaccine and mask use. It's no wonder so many people are cynical about the information they are being given.


 
Posted : 02/09/2021 6:13 pm
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Does that mean that I can mock the next person I see taking paracetamol, ibuprofen or steroids for that dodgy shoulder as idiots putting their trust in horse medicine too?

Rebuttal failure 101


 
Posted : 02/09/2021 6:22 pm
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Perhaps it’s not a bad idea to follow his advice to look after physical health as a way to make getting covid a less risky business.

There's some quite high profile healthy people been clobbered by Covid, so I'm not convinced that's any sort of argument clincher


 
Posted : 02/09/2021 9:17 pm
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Perhaps it’s not a bad idea to follow his advice to look after physical health as a way to make getting covid a less risky business.

Clearly it's not likely to be a bad idea to "look after physical health". But since he's also sure it's a good idea to take monoclonal antibodies maybe it's also a good idea to get the vaccine?


 
Posted : 02/09/2021 9:48 pm
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bedmaker

Does that mean that I can mock the next person I see taking paracetamol, ibuprofen or steroids for that dodgy shoulder as idiots putting their trust in horse medicine too?

I've read and re-read that and it still doesn't make sense??


 
Posted : 02/09/2021 11:00 pm
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Perhaps bedmaker has been self medicating?


 
Posted : 02/09/2021 11:22 pm
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Ah! Got it, he's suggesting that those meds are used to treat equine illness too.

That is correct of course but I think he is taking things a little selectively out of context to say the least!


 
Posted : 03/09/2021 12:01 am
 Del
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Since the only effectiveness ivermectin had been shown against covid has been in a petrie dish and the qualities required far outweigh those mandated (so far) for human use, coupled with the enormous rise in calls for help regarding ivermectin poisoning in the us, I'm thinking I'd give that stuff a body swerve until it's use has been shown to be actually effective in treating covid in humans.

As for Boardmasters I'm making the bet that not everyone was observing social distancing there. 5000 youngsters together I'd imagine the spit swapped is measurable in litres.


 
Posted : 03/09/2021 12:37 am
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As for Boardmasters I’m making the bet that not everyone was observing social distancing there. 5000 youngsters together I’d imagine the spit swapped is measurable in litres.

A fair point. Same argument for Bloodstock? A couple of folk on here caught it there apparently.

Much as we mocked the three word slogans, "Hands, Face, Space" actually seems to be a pretty good description of how best to avoid catching it.


 
Posted : 03/09/2021 6:27 am
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Yeah, a pal of mine who caught it at Bloodstock has just had to cancel their band's upcoming mini-tour as they're still clobbered by it.


 
Posted : 03/09/2021 7:16 am
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A work colleague's son has just got back from Reading after being at Boardmasters. He's now going for another weekend in Newquay....then off to University. I sort of started to suggest is that sensible and they gave me the weary look that anyone with older teenage kids will recognize of 'you try and stop him'

If they've bred anything special at any of these mass events, expect it in a school or hall of residence near you shortly.


 
Posted : 03/09/2021 7:18 am
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I sort of started to suggest is that sensible and they gave me the weary look that anyone with older teenage kids will recognize of ‘you try and stop him’

Given how careful my lad has been and how many events and opportunities he's given up, I don't have much truck with the "but they're teenagers" argument. Still gutted for him he caught it at the Fringe with us rather than out swapping spit with who knows who, who knows where.

Someone I know through my old inclusive cycle group tested positive Wednesday. I'm aware he's very overweight and there's a genetic heart issue, so I really hope the vaccine does it's job. He's 40.


 
Posted : 03/09/2021 8:31 am
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Does that mean that I can mock the next person I see taking paracetamol, ibuprofen or steroids for that dodgy shoulder as idiots putting their trust in horse medicine too?

Depends if they brought it from a vets rather than a pharmacist I guess and whether they are using it for something off label.


 
Posted : 03/09/2021 8:53 am
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A friend caught it at a wedding a couple of weeks back - 80 people out of just over 100 guests came down with it.

Apparently the singer from the band (unvaccinated etc) had been feeling dough a few days before, didn’t bother with getting a test, performed anyway and the rest is obvious.


 
Posted : 03/09/2021 9:16 am
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Seems like it, but depending on where you are in the country it's statistically possible that more than one person among the 100 had an active covid infection on that day, whether they knew it or not.

https://www.ons.gov.uk/peoplepopulationandcommunity/healthandsocialcare/conditionsanddiseases/bulletins/coronaviruscovid19infectionsurveypilot/27august2021

That's the thing about commutes on crowded trains, packed classrooms etc. You will most likely be in contact with an infected person pretty much every day, sometimes for an extended period. Would a mask mandate reduce the number of onward infections in these situations?


 
Posted : 03/09/2021 10:14 am
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Would a mask mandate reduce the number of onward infections in these situations?

Combined with good ventilation, yes. Without ventilation ventilation less so. Some research shown on TV demonstrated the effectivenes of both combined but each measure on it's own was much less effective.


 
Posted : 03/09/2021 10:24 am
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Would a mask mandate reduce the number of onward infections in these situations?

In words of one syllable, Yes.

https://www.nature.com/articles/d41586-020-02801-8

FWIW, 'muzzle' is a two syllable word. As is selfish, and for that matter ****s.


 
Posted : 03/09/2021 10:26 am
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Yeah, it was a bit of a rhetorical question. Dropping the mask mandate shows what a low-effort, cowardly government we have. They are entirely in thrall to a small but noisy group of libertarian arseholes.


 
Posted : 03/09/2021 10:30 am
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@Tired is there any more news about when Provent is likely to be rolled out? I saw your post a few pages ago and I was diagnosed with CLL in December and I've just taken an antibody test (waves at @juanking) which unsurprisingly shows I have no antibodies after chemo (<0.4 U/ml). I caught Covid back in December and also double jabbed so was hoping to be one of the few in my situation that had antibodies but unfortunately not. I'll get the booster jab as soon as its available and then do another test 4 weeks later to check the levels of antibodies


 
Posted : 03/09/2021 12:10 pm
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I’ve just taken an antibody test ... which unsurprisingly shows I have no antibodies after chemo

Err, is this a thing? Chemo kills off the antibodies?


 
Posted : 03/09/2021 12:27 pm
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Doesn't it affect the immune system, and so can prevent antibodies being developed in the first place?


 
Posted : 03/09/2021 1:08 pm
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a small but noisy group of libertarian arseholes.

I though was the government.


 
Posted : 03/09/2021 1:28 pm
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Err, is this a thing? Chemo kills off the antibodies?

Chemo can suppress the immune system to the extent that your immune 'memory' is wiped. That's fairly extreme - I had chemo about 30 years ago, and was warned that if my white cell count bottomed out, that would be the case, but managed to stay in the green.

'Chemo' is a wide-ranging term now, and some modern regimens are far less aggressive in terms of immune suppression.

Any immune-suppressing treatment can make you less likely to develop effective antibodies following vaccination, though.


 
Posted : 03/09/2021 1:53 pm
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JVCI not recommending vaccination for 12-15 year olds.


 
Posted : 03/09/2021 4:37 pm
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Just come from a popular hotel chain, where I noted 9 people. Of those;

One receptionist behind a screen, unmasked.
Two builders presumably working on the site next door, masked.
6 pensioners / at least over 60, all unmasked including using a max 6 persons lift.

Ffs.


 
Posted : 03/09/2021 4:45 pm
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JVCI not recommending vaccination for 12-15 year olds.

Is this just about using supplies for boosting the at risk, and they'll change their mind once we have more stocks, as per 16-17 year olds? Will they be extending the list of conditions that allow for at risk 12-15 year olds to get doses with GP involvement, or do those kids just have to take their chances this winter?


 
Posted : 03/09/2021 5:29 pm
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Googling helped answer one of my questions...

https://www.itv.com/news/2021-09-03/covid-vaccine-advisers-not-recommending-jabs-for-healthy-12-15-year-olds

But children in this age bracket who have underlying health conditions would benefit from the protection provided by vaccines, the JCVI said, and so the rollout should be extended to the most at-risk children.

Health and Social Care Secretary Sajid Javid said: “People aged 12 to 15 who are clinically vulnerable to the virus have already been offered a Covid-19 vaccine, and today we’ll be expanding the offer to those with conditions such as sickle cell disease or type 1 diabetes to protect even more vulnerable children.


 
Posted : 03/09/2021 5:31 pm
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Pensioner death wish syndrome is mighty strong...


 
Posted : 03/09/2021 5:31 pm
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Id rather they were honest and say the reason they are not vaccinating 12-15yr olds at the moment is due to having limited Pfizer vaccines which they are saving for booster jabs in the autumn.


 
Posted : 03/09/2021 5:35 pm
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Honest? Transparent? Would be nice, wouldn't it.


 
Posted : 03/09/2021 5:37 pm
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Is this just about using supplies for boosting the at risk, and they’ll change their mind once we have more stocks, as per 16-17 year olds?

I don't know. I think the risk and direct benefit is currently very finely balanced in this age group, although more data on long covid in teens may paint a different picture.

Even the general public health benefit isn't clear-cut, given that the vaccine does not prevent transmission with a similar viral load to the unvaccinated.

Add into the mix that the programme to vaccinate this group may need to be run concurrently with any booster programme for older people, which may a)overstretch supply and b)overstretch vaccine delivery generally.


 
Posted : 03/09/2021 5:37 pm
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Id rather they were honest and say the reason they are not vaccinating 12-15yr olds at the moment is due to having limited Pfizer vaccines

First the JVCI are independent scientists, their only remit is to look at the risk reward profile of th treatment. Second, we have just given Australia 4 million doses of Pfizer which doesn't suggest we have a shortage.


 
Posted : 03/09/2021 5:40 pm
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It's all about UK supply. JCVI have prioritised all the way. And rightly so. They delay decisions 'till the stock is there available to be used, and not required for those who should be prioritised because they are more at risk.


 
Posted : 03/09/2021 5:42 pm
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It’s all about UK supply.

Bollocks it is.


 
Posted : 03/09/2021 5:44 pm
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although more data on long covid in teens may paint a different picture

I'm mixed on this. I'm a scientist, I thrive on data and evidence and proof.

At the same time, how much data and evidence and proof do you need when time is of the essence. One of the (many) criticisms of me is that I'm always looking for a bit more data, to dot all the i's and cross all the t's and I should use my instinct more.

My instinct right now is saying that we are wasting time. My science head says more data would make us more certain.


 
Posted : 03/09/2021 5:46 pm
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Bollocks it is.

I thought the same as you (without the pointless language) about older teens. Others with more knowledge said otherwise, and that it was all about waiting for supplies to be available, and then the decision to go ahead would only really be made/announced then. They were right. I have no reason to believe you over any random person off the street mefty. Likewise you have no reason to think my guessing is right either. Time will tell...

Anyway, our 15 year old is now eligible... hopefully the GP will be contact before they're back at school. Or should we ask on Monday?


 
Posted : 03/09/2021 5:46 pm
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we have just given Australia 4 million doses

only 300,000 in first batch to be sent to aus

worry is that mass vaccination of school kids will disrupt supply of boosters for elderly as immunisation seems to be waning afater a year

https://www.independent.co.uk/news/uk/politics/coronavirus-vaccine-teenagers-schools-jcvi-b1911992.html

not the only factor but supply is influencing decisions


 
Posted : 03/09/2021 5:50 pm
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At the same time, how much data and evidence and proof do you need when time is of the essence.

The JVCI have already shown they are capable of taking a view when looking at the public health benefit - of course they were widely criticized for taking a brilliant decision in retrospect - they obviously see a low likelihood of further evidence.


 
Posted : 03/09/2021 5:51 pm
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Likewise you have no reason to think my guessing is right either.

I always assume the opposite will be the case and this provides a 90% plus confidence level.


 
Posted : 03/09/2021 5:54 pm
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Well, I was wrong about older teens. Others said the advice would change just as soon as we had the stocks... and it did. That's why I'm ready and expecting a change of policy for younger teens once we have the available stocks that means boosters aren't being denied to those who need them. Learning from being wrong is a thing.


 
Posted : 03/09/2021 5:55 pm
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It is not within the JCVI’s remit to consider the wider societal impacts of vaccination, including educational benefits. The government may wish to seek further views on the wider societal and educational impacts from the Chief Medical Officers of the UK 4 nations.

JCVI also passing the buck a bit, but its a fair point about disruption to schooling


 
Posted : 03/09/2021 5:59 pm
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After avoiding for so long, Delta has invaded my house this week. It seems to have started with the missus (who hardly leaves the house & is super cautious) - double jabbed AZ. Then me - double AZ, possibly a 3rd booster as I'm on the Cov-boost trial. My 13 y/o also has it but not my 16 y/o who ha shad her first dose.

Missus and I both fluffy/achey but not too bad. Son had a temp & wiped out for 1 day.

I was daily testing with LFT's, which were negative for a few days after the +ve PCR, but now showing +ve too.

It looks like my time as an NHS vaccinator has come to an end too. My NHS trust has decreed that any flight/cabin crew vaccinators mustn't attend a clinic for 10 days after ANY foreign travel.


 
Posted : 03/09/2021 7:05 pm
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JCVI have published there'no evidence of vaccine effect "waning". Hmmm, really?

Also, 1 day back to school for some , and 42,000 cases recorded today. Hold on to something everybody....


 
Posted : 03/09/2021 7:30 pm
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could that up take simply be due to testing going up again?


 
Posted : 03/09/2021 10:19 pm
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