I've got to say, I don't get why the change to 10pm closing will have any effect at all. If you're so inclined, you build up your drinking to reach maximum pissedness at closing time and adjusting that won't change behaviour one iota, just the timing of it.
Yet it ****s up food places, who now can't do a 7pm and 9pm sitting, and of course when drinkers are still behaving entirely predictably gives this useless Gov someone to blame. Which of course will be proportionally the younger generation again.
The 10pm thing is just indecision from.a weak PM
Wants to be seen to be doing something, doesn't have the courage to shut pubs again
I’ve got to say, I don’t get why the change to 10pm closing will have any effect at all. If you’re so inclined, you build up your drinking to reach maximum pissedness at closing time and adjusting that won’t change behaviour one iota, just the timing of it.
Or people will just continue to drink like normal then go to their friends house for another few hours which is most likely. The majority of transmissions seems to be coming from people mixing in homes I dont get why England don't follow Scotland and do that.
Also, we finally got a track and trace app... im sure it will be world beating!
"Evidence"
LOL
Anyone who believes 10pm closing will make the least bit of difference is out of their tiny mind. R is up around 1.3-1.6, means we need to cut our total contacts by at least a third, probably better to aim for half to suppress the virus, which was what Johnson explicitly stated was his aim.
(this is why the R number has some salience as opposed to just thinking of the doubling time)
I am not sure this is the right thread - I did haver - but has anybody else noticed more Scottish politicians on the main news since UK Gov stopped BBC showing Ms Sturgeon's briefings? Is this the law of unintended consequences? I have seen Mr Swinney and Ms Forbes on the main BBC news about the pandemic this week I am sure that is a new thing!
Don't get the 10pm too.
If its about people being drunk why not just ban the sale of alcohol at 9.30 and then at 10 all alcohol must be removed from tables with food and soft drinks served as normal.
Kryton, regrettably there’s nothing unusual in that; I posted up there ^^^ about my experience of trying to book a test anywhere within a reasonable distance of Lincoln.
@Frank - did they offer you a test at Humber Bridge? I pass there twice a day and there hasn't been more than half a dozen cars at the test site since it opened (apart from staff cars of course) Must be loads of capacity there
Is this the law of unintended consequences?
Beeb always strives for balance tbf, even during brexit they had a load of utter retards on. It's not always a good thing, but at this time, I think it is.
I must admit that the 10 p.m thing did completely baffle me (people would go to the pub earlier,go back to houses after shutting time) so the fact SAGE has said that it is nothing to do with them then suddenly it starts to make sense. (in that Bozo is making it up as he goes along)
The testing capacity limits aren't about the test centres themselves, it's about the capacity of the labs to process the tests completed from them and home testing. IIRC the health secretary said at the weekend we're still at a limit of 250k per day.
RM.
The 10pm thing is just indecision from.a weak PM
Wants to be seen to be doing something, doesn’t have the courage to shut pubs again
Bluff, bluster and bullshit.
It is all he has, ever has had and ever will have.
Us proles are just along for the ride.
Got her results back yesterday morning at 10am (negative).
Great news and glad it went smoothly.
Could it be they were advised a curfew might be needed from 22:00 and Team Boris has gone for a fun time alternative? Same as everyone else I can just see this resulting in more drinking at home before and after. Plus a rise in the unsanctioned events / raves / parties. Guess this winter is going to get the measure of our humanity.
you must now self-isolate as soon as possible and stay at home until 2nd of October
Any views on this am I free on 2nd or on 3rd because 14 days isolation means out on 3rd
I'd say it says you are free to go about your business as you wish on the 2nd
I’d say it says you are free to go about your business as you wish on the 2nd
Thats what I said, mrs anagallis disagrees
Its no biggie dude I have done it twice. Yes its a little uncomfortable but its all over in like a minute.
Yep, a few gag moments was the worst thing, the nasal bit I didn't mind. Junior though managed to puke up some bile by jabbing it down his throat too much.
I found the whole biological warfare style experience worse on my anxiety than the test itself TBH.
Don’t get the 10pm too.
Who knows.
Maybe its the nudge unit at work - two weeks time, 9pm, two weeks after that, 6pm, leave hospitality venues open, but maybe not at peak drunk hours.
Maybe it was just made up in front of the cameras.
Maybe it was deemed to look good about doing something whilst not actually doing anything.
To me it just seems to have a flavour of fail about it.
So our world class test track and trace strike again.
Partner told people in house isolate for 14 days from symptoms, that means freedom for me on 3rd.
My email said
stay at home until 2nd of October
Partner just got text saying I stay at home until 14 from the test day which means freedom on 4th.......
****ing shambles doesnt even cover it!!
I’ve got to say, I don’t get why the change to 10pm closing will have any effect at all.
Purely anecdotal, but I've walked past our local spoons the last 2 nights and it's been dead both nights, a quite incredible difference on the usual.
Its busy every night normally, and rammed thu onward.
That’s odd, because on the gov website it says 10 days from symptoms or if symptom free 10 days from the test (if positive). So is it 10, 11, 12, 13, 14, or in your case 15 days?
'Students studding in Scotland can't go home for Xmas'.
What is the law are they breaking if they do?
What is the law are they breaking if they do?
Going from one household to another I'd imagine.
That’s odd, because on the gov website it says 10 days from symptoms or if symptom free 10 days from the test (if positive). So is it 10, 11, 12, 13, 14, or in your case 15 days?
Thats for the person who tested positive.
The confusion seems to lie in "close contacts" are from day of symptoms, whilst household members are from day if test.
Students studding in Scotland can’t go home for Xmas’.
What is the law are they breaking if they do?
Yep, once they've left home they become a separate household, and if households can't mix....
DOH
Trust me, thats not "busy in London". It also conflicts with the news this morning where the additional Police patrols reported no issues and a quiet evening. Also quite obviously the letter of the CoronaLaw appears to be flouted a lot in that video.
Who's right?
‘Students studding in Scotland can’t go home for Xmas’.
I think Margaret Atwood is interested. I can think of a few laws, none COVID19 related 🙂
Time to dust off the smallest violins again: https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-54289715 FFS, given the figures involved I'm sure they have that themselves down the back of a sofa...
I'll send a hat round!
Don’t get the 10pm too.
Here in Wales / Cardiff some our biggest problems managing Social Distancing etc have come from people heading into 'Town' for a night out. We have very few clubs left now, just massive bars that you have to queue and pay to get in, had little or no seating and dance floors. Night clubs in all but name. They did make changes to reopen during the summer, but about a dozen of them were issued with Covid warnings and a few forced to close, but it's really hard to get drunk people to SD.
In normal times a lot of these places are like the 'Wild West', there's a huge police presence to handle the violence and at least in the past there have been pop-up Field Hospitals just to try to keep people who have drunk way too much out of A&E.
My personal belief is that by going for a 10pm curfew they're making these sorts of places less worth making the trip to, to reduce the numbers and make it more manageable.
That's not to say that even 'normal' pubs don't get more rowdy as it gets later, working in Bars and Pubs long ago there's a big difference in 7pm and 10pm, and most pubs are terrible places for an airborne virus in Winter, low ceilings, little ventilation etc.
Caerphilly was the first local Welsh area to go into lockdown and they made a lot of effort into policing Pubs and Bars, their numbers started to drop within a few weeks and they may come out of lockdown soon, which will hopefully reverse the idea of this inevitable march towards a huge upturn in infections.
RCT which went into lockdown later has continued to see numbers rise, only in the last week they've started to crackdown on pubs and bars, which will hopefully turn the tide.
I think a 10pm curfew combined with table service and a limit of 6 per group is a good starting point. It's trying to find a balance.
Asking venues to temporarily close or limiting to take out only will probably mean most places with have to call it a day.
Surely a 10pm curfew means increased people on tube & bus at chucking out time
Appreciate it means less time drinking & mixing, which reduces spread
And also that balance needs to be struck for business
But Belgium's curfew was cited by Hancock as being their model & while it seemed to have slowed cases over the summer, they are rising again now & looking at stricter lockdown
For many reasons distancing, masks, WFH, etc spread here should be much less than it was in 1st wave
But seems very naive to be sitting here again looking at Europe, shaking our heads & assuming we are not on a similar trajectory
Ha! Appart from the fact that I wish I was still 'studding'.....
Can the PM/Govt just say it's illegal and it's is? What is the current law they have broken? What will they be charged with in court?
It's mental to even suggest students can't go home for Christmas. Many have 4 weeks off, accommodation may not be available, catered halls won't be providing meals, it's an additional cost, kids away from home for the first time, under these conditions. It's unenforceable, impractical and ethically wrong. This would only be appropriate under full country lockdown and then the Cummings defense would come into play, people might feel they would be better off elsewhere despite being told to stay put, if it was Ok for Cummings......
Can the PM/Govt just say it’s illegal and it’s is? What is the current law they have broken? What will they be charged with in court?
My understanding is that in Scotland, two households can't mix under the Covid laws? Need one of our Scottish residents to confirm.
MCTD Correct.
What will they be charged with in court?
I've not read up on it tbh, as I won't be breaking this particular law, but if they haven't made it law, then good old 'breach of the peace' can be dusted off. And it wouldn't go to court, it's a spot fine, which increases each time yer a dick.
It is. And also is in Northern Ireland, much of the North of England, and in a lot of South Wales. It's just a fine if you are caught though... some will consider that cheaper than staying put... especially if there's no on site learning, no social contact, no catering, inadequate kitchens etc. But it if the Unis double down and throw people off of courses, and out of halls... well, I don't know what to think about it to be honest. I think that Unis should have just said when the A level results mess was ongoing... "distance learning, stay at home, all going well we'll get together in person after Xmas"... but they couldn't afford to without support from the government at the time... and there's no point looking to them for any forward planning... ministers have been sent out to do the media today to share one message... "no one thought that this would happen this autumn"... gaslighting liars that they are... they said what was needed to return to education this autumn... and they failed to deliver any of it in time or to the required scale.
Seriously useful session:
cheers BillMC
I think a 10pm curfew combined with table service and a limit of 6 per group is a good starting point. It’s trying to find a balance.
But it doesn't stop the fact the main point of transmissions seems to be people visiting homes. All people will do is oh its 10 i still want to drink lets go to so and so house.
the main point of transmissions seems to be people visiting homes
When we actually have a fully working track and trace system... we'll see. Detecting transmission in homes is easy peasy. The focus on the transmissions at home happens to fit in very well with the government's decision to ask people not to visit each other at home, but keep going out...
Anyway, strong graph work (in a social context) by Christina Pagel. Thanks for sharing Bill.
My local news said that of 23 cases this week 6 were in a police station, another cluster in a care home and that 5 were "specifically related to schools or nuseries" so the data seems to be around, why us this not feeding thru' a a national level?
