How the **** does that make any sense whatsoever?
https://twitter.com/richardosman/status/1259757261779501061?s=21
So I could go to park to see my daughter (from 2 meters) yet my wife (with whom I live) would have to stay away. Presumably she could stand outside the park until I leave, and then go in and have a chat with daughter. How the **** does that make any sense whatsoever?.
Added to that, you are asking an elderly therefore shielded person to potter off to a park to meet their grown up child for a bit of moral support but (in theory) that same relative sat at the other end elderly shielded person's garden is not allowed. Which is stupid.
There seem to be a few people on here upset about what they are calling "herd immunity by stealth", but which is really implementing exactly what was promised, i.e. "flattening the curve".
I'd like to ask them what other options they think we have?
Your point is valid but irrelevant to the quote you attached it to.
TLDR... but frankly I'm amazed at the level of denial some will go to.
I’d like to ask them what other options they think we have?
If only there were hundreds of other countries we could look to for ideas about containing and starving the virus of carriers.
...so as I contemplate the 90 min drive across yorkshire to check on our 2nd home [realises he's lost the audience] for insurance, current insurer having just stopped doing 2nd homes. And turn of the lecky and things which have been on for two months now.
As I contemplate this I think about the actual risks - and it seems that COVID-19 is mainly spread by spending time indoors with someone who has it, breathing the same air:
https://wwwnc.cdc.gov/eid/article/26/7/20-0764_article
Not much evidence of outdoors transmission:
...still only contemplating as evidence on this thread is that tutting will be severe.
I wonder how many have to die before the idiots who voted for these c**** open their eyes?
Millions.
As Kimbers presciently pointed out, you don't change sides in a culture war, you just move onto blaming the next easiest target group.
Intellectuals, judges, liberals.....
I know, it's Piers Morgan, but I really bloody enjoyed this..
covid infection study if anyone wants to sign up
There seem to be a few people on here upset about what they are calling “herd immunity by stealth”, but which is really implementing exactly what was promised, i.e. “flattening the curve”.
I’d like to ask them what other options they think we have?
The first basic option ? Why not just be honest?
The options within this ... shield the vulnerable, build up stocks of PPE, ramp up testing to the promised amounts?
Not much evidence of outdoors transmission
Evidence found where contact tracing works. The fact that most identified transmissions occurred in the home doesn’t mean we should all avoid being at home. That outdoor transmissions are hard to identify via contact tracing could mean that transmission is very rare, or it could mean that the contact tracing methods used for the studies were poor at identifying them. Home transmission shouldn’t lead to the virus spreading (if the home is isolated and the cases are not serious enough to result in medical care), where as outdoor transmission, even if rare, could result in new home, communities, areas being infected.
If only there were hundreds of other countries we could look to for ideas about containing and starving the virus of carriers.
But there really aren't. All those with fewer deaths than us will have to relax their lockdowns, and their numbers will climb again. Nothing has been done anywhere that changes the basic arithmetic of 60 to 80% will get it and 1% of those will die. All any country has changed is the time that will take. And unless the world abandons capitalism altogether, the more the pandemic is prolonged, the greater the economic damage and the greater the human cost of that.
@stevextc absolutely agree that honesty and treating us as if we were grown ups would be massively preferable. I don't think this lot even understand those concepts though.
Can someone point me to the bit which says we all must get in our cars and travel to work today, as some seem to believe the new rules are?
Anyone out there like to report back on what traffic is actually like this morning?
Can someone point me to the bit which says we all must get in our cars and travel to work today, as some seem to believe the new rules are?
He didn't say Must. He said get to work where possible, avoiding the use of public transport if you can using alternatives such as driving, cycling or walking.
Evidence found where contact tracing works.
refs?
I’d like to ask them what other options they think we have?
We flattened the curve at around 30k deaths, similar counties did it with under 10k deaths, if we keep this up for each of say 3 waves how many extra would we have, is that good? The countries who manage it better can also relax sooner as the up is much faster than the down!
But there really aren’t.
Sorry onewheelgood, you are wrong. And looking back on a year of data on deaths at the end of 2020 that’ll become obvious, even if for now you want to ignore the evidence already available to us.
But there really aren’t. All those with fewer deaths than us will have to relax their lockdowns, and their numbers will climb again. Nothing has been done anywhere that changes the basic arithmetic of 60 to 80% will get it and 1% of those will die. All any country has changed is the time that will take. And unless the world abandons capitalism altogether, the more the pandemic is prolonged, the greater the economic damage and the greater the human cost of that.
@stevextc absolutely agree that honesty and treating us as if we were grown ups would be massively preferable. I don’t think this lot even understand those concepts though.
Indeed. Perpetual lockdown will only end in more long term economic damage (& the associated collateral that will inevitably follow in terms of lost lives) than has already been inflicted.
Nobody has a clear idea of a way out of this & it’s going to be a very, very, very painful case of trial & error till we get it right.
Hang on tight kids, it’s going to get bumpy..
So I could go to park to see my daughter (from 2 meters) yet my wife (with whom I live) would have to stay away. Presumably she could stand outside the park until I leave, and then go in and have a chat with daughter. How the **** does that make any sense whatsoever?.
Because by adding a third and then a fourth person etc looks like a group. People are generally sheep, so if its OK for you to form a group its OK for them and the rest is obvious....
Can someone point me to the bit which says we all must get in our cars and travel to work today, as some seem to believe the new rules are?
He didn’t say Must. He said get to work where possible, avoiding the use of public transport if you can using alternatives such as driving, cycling or walking.
This was the thing that riled me most when I watched it live, all the chatter about improving active transport and what did BoZo say? "The best thing you can do is get in your car"
But there really aren’t. All those with fewer deaths than us will have to relax their lockdowns, and their numbers will climb again.
They can relax lockdown sooner and the numbers will climb slower and so the next lock down will be later and overall less damage will be done to the economy and less deaths will occur.
I wouldn't normally watch Morgan, but as it was that arch <insert vilest swearword of your choice here> Bridgen, I made an exception.
I struggled to get fully aroused if I'm honest.
It was just one oaf shouting at another. Bridgen didn't rise to the bait (Cummings picks his lightning rods cleverly) and it left me feeling a bit flat. Bridgen will collect his peerage at the end which is all the lazy turd is interested in.
The thing that worries me most is that this is actually the type of thing that a lot of the public thrive on.
Sorry onewheelgood, you are wrong.
It's ok, you don't have to apologise. It would be nice if you could show your working though.
Indeed. Perpetual lockdown will only end in more long term economic damage (& the associated collateral that will inevitably follow in terms of lost lives) than has already been inflicted.
Nobody has a clear idea of a way out of this & it’s going to be a very, very, very painful case of trial & error till we get it right.
Hang on tight kids, it’s going to get bumpy..
I fear that this is the harsh reality we are going to have to face up to.
Even if - and it's an if, not a when - we get a vaccine, it could be years away. It may be the case that all countries will have to find a way to hit that awful 1% of 60% death rate. But perpetual lockdown and the resulting economic destruction could maybe kill more than the virus in the next 5 years, with long term poverty, mental illness, domestic violence, wider crime, other untreated conditions.
Obviously, other governments may well handle the process better than our current one, but moaning on an internet echo chamber won't solve that particular issue in any meaningful timescale.
As I understand it, the plan is to continue to prevent the NHS being swamped, but to relax lockdown as much as possible while doing that
About right, yes. Unless the virus can be eradicated by eventual contact tracing, then it will head to endemicity, the rate with which it does so will be determined by mixing and to a lesser extent those who may become immune and/or vaccinated. Treatments and passive vaccination can mitigate morbidity and mortality to some extent.
This is a nice analysis of lockdown for the mathematically inclined
that awful 1% of 60% death rate
Management of symptoms and eventual treatment will bring this down, but it won't eradicate it. We're buying time to (hopefully) get to perhaps 0.1%. The most obvious example of this is HIV, where treatments have increased life expectancy by over 40 years.
We’re buying time
Some countries are buying more time than others.
moaning on an internet echo chamber won’t solve that particular issue
You can apply that to any point made in this thread… but why would you?
We’re buying time
Some countries are buying more time than others.
And at a much lower cost.
You can apply that to any point made in this thread… but why would you?
I'm well aware that I've done plenty of pointless moaning on here about various aspects of the disastrous handling of the situation.😄
Some people might enjoy being slammed by Phillip Scholfield 😀
This has all dropped into a cost benefit analysis- from a Tory (Steve Baker, Mogg, Mark Fatcois) perspective it has no where else to go.
From a socialist perspective we could sacrife the medium term economy to try and re engineer how we work, educate and socialise but that wrecks the free market economy and the pure dogma that drives Brexiteer folk. Boris is frankly shitting him self that they "kill" too many Tory voters, i have discussed on here that the Tory party is literally dying out mathematically and Covid drives that even faster - 4 years at an average of 250 deaths a day in the Tory "bracket" is 350 thousand.... or you could look at as a 3 billion saving per annum on pensions and god knows what in social and NHS costs.
Younger population = socialist government
Boris is frankly shitting him self that they “kill” too many Tory
voters
He needs to be worried about killing off the members - as I said - The East Sussex Conundrum.
In the Black Mirror universe - Cummings likes to cover his bases; vigorous membership reprofiling might be part of the plan.
Working along the border in Monmouthshire today and it's starkly obvious that the two countries have different rules.
The Welsh side is quiet with just the now normal queue outside the shops and a few people mulling around.
The English side has much more people driving around, walking in groups and acting like it's all over.
The contrast is shocking. Shall we start a sweepstake on when the R number gets high enough for lockdown no 2?
So how do we reckon that 50 page technical document is coming along?
that it wasnt released when Johnson sent out the speech is a worry, some poor civil servants been on an all nighter trying spin this up to 50 pages, large font, double line spacing, diagrams full page, knowing Starmer is going to pull it apart line by line
My bet based on nothing more than a gut feeling is that the lockdown gets tighter in 3 weeks.
knowing Starmer is going to pull it apart line by line
That’s why the opposition aren’t being given it in advance of publication and the token bit of parliamentary time given over to it.
Oh, and journalists are not being allowed to ask questions about it later today (just questions ‘from the public’).
As for any select committees getting involved… Cummings will be chuckling about such ‘checks and balances’ from wherever he’s holed up right now.
Document will, apparently, be released at 2pm.
Don't know if opposition parties will receive advance copies prior to that.
All y'all getting pretty het up about this over last couple of days.
While it's important, you can only do your own bit really and getting so red in the face is bad for your soul.
Time to take a walk!
Jesus Christ, watch the Vid...
A staggering amount of stupidity.
A staggering amount of stupidity.
And folk are getting upset about someone driving a few miles to walk a dog in relative solitude...
A staggering amount of stupidity.
So if you were expected to go to work in the centre of London and like a great proportion of Londoners you didn't own a car (or tbh even if you did) - how would you be getting there?
how would you be getting there?
Is this a trick question? Bike.
Is this a trick question? Bike.
You think every Londoner is equipped with a bike and somewhere to store it and has a commute that is within their fitness capabilities at the start of lockdown?
A staggering amount of stupidity.
Nah, not really. I’m not surprised one bit - the ability of the British Public to act like fing idiots stopped surprising me years ago..
There seem to be a few people on here upset about what they are calling “herd immunity by stealth”, but which is really implementing exactly what was promised, i.e. “flattening the curve”.
I’d like to ask them what other options they think we have?
What would have been so bad about maintaining the "level 4" measures for another couple of weeks? I don't see the need to rush. Why is the government putting the guidance out after their announcement has been acted on by potentially millions.
Last night's speech should have been an announcement of changes to be implemented at least a week after.
Throughout this there has been a staggered effect. So We'll know the effects of last night's speech, for good or ill, in about 2-3 weeks around the time Boris reckons we'll be sending kids back to school...
Yes there are negative economic effects of lockdown, but the ecconomic effects of a second spike and lockdown will be just as bad (arguably worse) and more importantly it would cost more lives.
Fundamentally our government has put resuming economic activity ahead of public health. So yeah "herd immunity" might be the unspoken goal, but let's be clear, that will entail more preventable deaths...
